posted on February 28, 2001 09:53:33 PM
To the sellers who have been selected to provide feedback to Yahoo Auctions I would suggest that you make good use of this opportunity. Assuming this isn't a cynical attempt to acknowledge the seller discontent without intending to listen, you have a chance to tell them why you don't think the current listing fee works, if you feel that way. There's no point in ranting at them. They're not going to listen to that. What they will hear is what your margins are and how the fees figure in with the sell-through rate that you experience. If you think a smaller listing fee (with a free relisting) and a final value fee is better for you (and ultimately better for them) say so and justify that. I wouldn't argue for no listing fee; it 'aint going to happen. The least they could do is allow one free relisting.
The smaller Yahoo Auction performance has improved much. It's surprisingly good given that only a month and a half has gone by. The sellers here can at least acknowledge that. The management at Yahoo Auctions must know, though, that the number of items will eventually have to fall further to a point where the success rate rises high enough to support the current listing fee (without any free relistings). If Ebay didn't exist that wouldn't be true, but alas they're the dominant auction in the US market and there can only be one.
Yahoo management could take a lesson from Ebay. Ebay knows the value of its few highly successful sellers and IMO treats them with greater respect. Heck, they treat everyone with greater respect in much of what they do, from moderated discussion boards, to their (honest) announcement page, vigilent policing, reachable customer service, overall responsiveness, conservative accounting for their shareholders, careful execution of strategy, etc. Yahoo doesn't have the same community interaction but they're a very well run company, though they're now suffering because the dot-com advertisement gold-rush has ended.
For the sellers who used to sell less active items on Yahoo, I realize you put a lot of effort into buying inventory, but I doubt Yahoo is going back to free auctions.
I have a realllllll difficult time with your post... Considering the "attitude" of the Yahoo! spin doctors like Brian Fitzgerald, who by every indication are LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH about sell-through data, etc... What in the world makes you think an organization which is doing zero but trying to sell the documentably at least partially bogus company line about what they represent as the new, improved, Yahoo Auction Site (and which has "journalists" like Rex Moore from Motley Fool, appropriate name in this case, in their pocket who parrot everything they're told) is in the least interested in doing ANYTHING but making a show of listening to the remaining sellers so they can say that they did so in their bogus Press Releases intended for the uninformed investment community????? You actually attribute honest motives to these people???
Were you at their bogus chats last month, or read the transcripts thereof????
And as for one of your statements about eBay being truthful on its Announcement Board- well, if you have been tracking the constant downtime over there, you would know that not only is a great deal of information about outages actually REMOVED from the Announcement Board in short order when it's put there, but in AT LEAST 50% of cases of fairly significant downtime, NOTHING is posted. Honest? Right. It's another cynical eBay attempt to NOT give sellers the refunds which they SHOULD be entitled to. eBay says "WHAT downtime?" ergo, no refund...They post what they feel is in their interests to post when they want to post it...
posted on March 1, 2001 05:19:06 AM
So
Now Yahoo is realizing that maybe they should not have kicked all of their sellers in the teeth like that. Gee Mayb e there are actually some numbers available, Brian!. Maybe Yahoo knows the numbers and also knows they cannot afford to make them public.
I think that this is an attempt to bail out a boat that is listing badly and down by the bow.
NOW YAHOO WANTS SOME OF THE SELLERS TO TELL THEM HOW TO SAVE THE SHIP!
The sellers have been telling them all along, but they were not listening. Yahoo has preached to us how they instituted the fees because without the fees there was to much clutter and junk. This would lead one to believe that they think anything of value has to be worth fees.
HOW MUCH VALUE IS YOU OPINION AND ASSISTANCE WORTH? Now Yahoo has come to you to ask you for your input. Well If they really value it, ask them how much? Leyt them start with a figure say around the area of Brian Fitzgerald's salary, and add bonuses from there.
Seller's have ben trying to give them advice for free ever since 01/02/01. They would not listen to the free advice.
Instaed they just started acting like the true jackbooted ignoramouses that they are, and I can not help but remember the lesson, "fool me once, shame on you!..."FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME!!!"
posted on March 1, 2001 05:21:40 AM
So
Now Yahoo is realizing that maybe they should not have kicked all of their sellers in the teeth like that. Gee Mayb e there are actually some numbers available, Brian!. Maybe Yahoo knows the numbers and also knows they cannot afford to make them public.
I think that this is an attempt to bail out a boat that is listing badly and down by the bow.
NOW YAHOO WANTS SOME OF THE SELLERS TO TELL THEM HOW TO SAVE THE SHIP!
The sellers have been telling them all along, but they were not listening. Yahoo has preached to us how they instituted the fees because without the fees there was to much clutter and junk. This would lead one to believe that they think anything of value has to be worth fees.
HOW MUCH VALUE IS YOU OPINION AND ASSISTANCE WORTH? Now Yahoo has come to you to ask you for your input. Well If they really value it, ask them how much? Leyt them start with a figure say around the area of Brian Fitzgerald's salary, and add bonuses from there.
Seller's have ben trying to give them advice for free ever since 01/02/01. They would not listen to the free advice.
Instaed they just started acting like the true jackbooted ignoramouses that they are, and I can not help but remember the lesson, "fool me once, shame on you!..."FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME!!!"
oops! SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE CLICK, TROUBLE LOADING THE PAGE. MODERATOR, PLEASE DELETE ONE OF THESE POSTS. THANK YOU.
[ edited by jimhhow on Mar 1, 2001 05:31 AM ]
Even if anyone who has left Yahoo, actually wanted to go back and risk Yahoo’s abuse again, then:
1. What makes you think "Now" would be the time to return?
2. What affirmative change have you seen Yahoo make in the last few days that would make you think "Now is the time?"
3. Why waste time writing Yahoo about how they could straighten up the disaster they have created, when every one has already written, and Yahoo is free to come read through all the messages on this board should they care?
4. When and where did Yahoo announce they were open to such input?
I see no change in Yahoo, no care, no truthfulness, no metamorphose except for the worse, and I can see no reason to return.
I’ll await your specific responses to the above questions……
Personally, I think Yahoo is very sick, besieged with:
Suffering From Hoof In the Mouth Disease
Dizzy, from Spin Doctoritus
Consumed by progressive prevaricating
Eaten Up With Pride
Oozing with maliciousness
Considering the afflictions besetting Yahoo, I am afraid it is terminal!!!
Have a good one.
I can’t Yahoo any more !
[ edited by insightwatcher on Mar 1, 2001 05:33 AM ]
posted on March 1, 2001 06:58:51 AM
The smaller Yahoo Auction performance has improved much.
-----------
This is very true! My sales now are at the level they were back in August before all the changes started. Fewer listings with moderate traffic is much better than millions of listings with moderate traffic.
Think back 4 years ago when ebay had thousands of listings rather than the millions they have now. Sales were better then, much better than they are now.
posted on March 1, 2001 08:49:46 AM
Yahoo wants feedback from it's top sellers??? They never wanted my feedback! I had over 355 in at one point under 2 names at Yahoo selling VERY fine and unusual items and have never got one personal reply from Yahoo in spite of the dozens of letters I sent in.
What was my suggestions? I offered to gladly relist my auctions if they would offer sellers the option of paying no listing fees but charge a small 1% to 3% fvf as well as offering free auctions with no fvf to those willing to pay a listing fee. This could work out very well for them since some of my items sell into the thousands of $$.
No other auction service, that I am aware of, offers this option. I don't mind paying a commission if an item sells but since my items are slow sellers, I don't want to pay $1440 per month just to list. I'd also consider going back if they charged a yearly subscription fee with smaller fvf similar to what Auction Watch just put into effect.
So far,I've been shut down with all my liquidations sales. I sold one lot of 23 Royal Doulton Toby's at Bidville for $1450 but have had very low page views and no other sales for the rest of the 45 test auctions at BV. I consider that one sale a fluke. I don't have a viable auction sight to use at this point. I've tried many other sights with poor results.
I used to average 20 to 30 auction sales at Yahoo per month. To give you an example of how the old Yahoo used to perform. I had a Gold Rolex GMT listed there that would get between 583 to 1150 page views per month. At Bidville it got 9 views in 2 weeks at Amazon it got about 39 views for the month and at Yahoo classifieds it got 63 for the month.
Yes, I could go to Ebay and pay $3300+ per month just to list, but from past experience, their sales are not that much better than Yahoo's for my odd items. I am not in biz, I'm liquidating an estate. I plan to use Ebay on a very limited basis for certain items that might sell quicker, but in general, I am disgusted with the whole net auction scene and what it has turned into. I am considering consigning the rest of my items to a traditional auction house in Pitts or Clev and be done with it.
posted on March 1, 2001 08:56:49 AM
The best educational experience that one of these Yahooligans could undertake would be to set themselves up as a serious seller. I doubt that they do that - they probably buy, some, but not sell. Let them see what it's like to post 30 or 40 collectibles on yahoo and get no bids, then go to eBay and sell many of the items. That's the perspective they need.
posted on March 1, 2001 09:12:24 AM
Well, if Yahooooooo can pull it off I hope AW is watching how they do it. There is a mini-revolution going on over at the eBay forum as a result of AW's decision to start charging sellers for it's services (listing and FVF fees)
I don't know if Yahoooooo sellers do enough volume to even need AW's services, but if you do, you're in for another kick in the old wazoo.
posted on March 1, 2001 11:44:02 AM
Sorry folks for the attention-grabbing headline. Well, ya know, business is business and assuming that Yahoo is now open for some input from their sellers this would be an opportunity to try to prevail upon them with reason and not emotion. If they can be pursuaded to lower their listing fee, put in a free relisting, and do a final value fee as a trade-off for a lower listing fee that might be workable. There are a lot of sellers for whom Ebay and Yahoo's current cost structure can't work for what they sell, and they would benefit from a tweak in Yahoo's fees.
Those lesser-known auctions like Bidville and the attempt at a co-op are really non-starters.
Ebay's announcement page is generally honest. Try finding that kind of thing from any other large corporation. You can't? That's what makes Ebay so unique. When there are major outages they do post a lot of messages about ongoing problems and the progress of fixing it. There could be like 10 notices and they usually edit those down to one or two after the crisis passes.
Don't you think Yahoo has shown what it really thinks about the sellers?
If they are now looking for a way to bring back the sellers that left after telling them in many ways why we could not stay, it is an obvious attempt at damage control.
There may even be a sweetheart period until they can dream up some new ways to rape their auctions site.
No thanks. I will try to build something elsewhere at least ubtil I am shown the same attitude from the new site. If and when that happens, I will know it is time to move on. The one thing this whole fiascoshould teach all of us is to be more dependent upon ourselves.
I for one do not be,ieve that Yahoo could be sincere in wanting to bring the sellers back, and keep them unless it is on their terms, which is not in any way a partnership.
They are even sending these emails to accounts that THEY canceled. What does that tell you? THey will cancel you again, any time they want as long as they believe that we will all be running back with open arms, acting like a bunch of returning waifs in a Disney movie.
posted on March 1, 2001 12:40:34 PM
John10101 >
... business is business ...
Yup, that just about sums it up, while at the same time trying to create the impression they are interested in feedback and comments about their little rinky-dink auction site.
From where I sit,
Yahoo!Auctions surely must have come up with forecast models, and they did state that they had contacted power sellers, prior to implementing listing fees.
Their models have been a complete failure;
power sellers are few and far between these days at Yahoo!AuctionsLITE.
Even the featured sellers put forward by Yahoo!Auctions as part of their spin-doctoring campaign have largely fallen by the wayside.
Remember the guy selling jaz drives that Yahoo!Auctions spun across the financial press just a few weeks ago. Take a look at his live and closed auctions now.
Not to be disrespectful of your thread. But the title does not 'make friends and influence people'. A lot of sellers have been treated like dirt by Yahoo! Auctions, since fees were instituted. Kicked down, and lately kicked even more, (recent terminations with no explanation). Personally, such disrespect does not warrant any concern for them, from me. I'd rather eat the dirt they threw at us, than do that. They, in their lack of wisdom, did us all a favor. We have figured out how to survive, without them, and their lack of concern for our views at the time they should have listened. They have some nerve, coming to us now, to ask our 'opinions'. We wrote on the boards until we had carpal tunnel syndrome, in both hands. They want to listen now? No thanks. I, for one, couldn't care less of the plight they brought on themselves. You can't kick me, and then try to kiss me. There's another expression I'd rather use which starts "Kiss me first before......", but a moderator will certainly step in, if I do.
Again, no disrespect intended of your thread topic. Just what the topic title suggests we do.
posted on March 1, 2001 02:39:27 PM
I'm definitely not trying to make friends around here. There's a lot of peer pressure on this board to slam Yahoo and it seems like the sporatic reports of someone actually doing well on Yahoo tend to get poo-poo'd.
OK, they did what they did. It's done. Well, now what?
Their auction has been taken as a symbol of their inability to transition to more of a fee-based service to replace the loss in growth of ad revenue. It's not even a valid symbol because their auction was never very large and it isn't even one of their heavily trafficked services (like e-mail, news, search and quotes). If they can turn things around it's closer to a win-win. Yahoo can point to a success, their head auction producer gets a corporate gold star, shareholders gain, and more sellers have an outlet for their goods that don't quite fit on Ebay or anywhere else.
I don't think that anyone here wishes anything bud sales and good luck to anyone who is still selling on Yahoo. However, after what has gone, when someone comes and starts to praise and I have even seen some crowing about the site, it is only natural that those who feel kicked around are going to look upon those postings with a clear and skeptical eye.
Now you come here and are telling us that this may be the chance to get Yahoo to listen to the sellers IF we say the things that they want to hear about.\
I'm sorry, but Yahoo has had plenty of chances to listen to what the sellers were saying. They chose to ignore that and listen to Henry Blodgett instead.
Then they had the gaul to trot out Brian Fitzgerald to add insult to the injury.
You certainly have a right to your opinion, my opinion is you have a better chance talking ancient Sumarian here.
Maybe they should have Henry Blodgett list some items there and have Brian Fitzgerald tell everyone how those items are better for Yahoo and the auction users then the JUNK we sellers used to list.
After selling for quite awhile at ebay, ebay instituted reserve fees. I didn't feel I could sell my particular products without a reserve so I joined the site building at Gold's and then came back and adapted at ebay. When Yahoo instituted fees I took a hard look at what I was listing and adapted immediately. My Yahoo sales were less than 50% of my ebay sales volume before fees. They are now close to 75%. No comment whatsover on what works for others but riding it out and living with the changes worked for me this time and saved my time listing on another site (that probably wasn't going anywhere) simply as a protest. I looked at my closed auctions and cut my listings to consistent sellers and add a new thing every few days to see how it does. Some become consistent sellers, others don't. John, I encourage you to keep posting as I would like to see posts here from Yahoo sellers again sharing ideas. By the way, tnmary is not my id at ebay or yahoo so save the search. Yahoo may blackball me tomorrow but life is never predictable, at least mine never has been. Yahoo doesn't talk to me, I don't talk to them. I just post my listings, pay my bills, and enjoy my life as I always have. To those who don't agree and want to dump anger on me, feel free. I have been in business more years than I care to count both in retail and online. I have stood behind the counter in retail stores day in and day out and answered my email daily. I have one heck of a thick skin.
posted on March 1, 2001 05:22:16 PM
Let me see!!! Yahoo has said we are where we want to be the brains of the outfit said (when their listing dropped by 90%) it is what we expected! Well the junk is cleaned out and it looks like they are lossing more everday. Now people are saying look Yahoo has changed they what us to help them ha ha. I say let the ship sink it is leaking to bad. I am selling on Bidville now and happy I feel positive sell's will pick up alot of my buyers followed me from Yahoooo and emailed me saying they like Bidville and thank you. Yahoo spit on us and I for one will not come back I hope they drop like a rock. They wanted to be another ebay well nice try ha ha. Put the flowers on the yahoo grave and move on to another site help it all you can to build it up like we did Yahoooo. Another day will come and the sun will shine like the one before. I dont wish Yahoo bad luck but I dont wish them good luck either. So go on back and set your self's up again. Not me. Good luck and good sell's.
posted on March 1, 2001 08:11:01 PM
tnmary:
I am not going to bash you. on the contrary, I wish you luck and sales.
I am just not ready to get back on the Yahoo roller coaster again because I no longer trust them.
I am selling at Bidville also. I have bids on approx. 50% of my auctions right now. It is true that I have changed my format and strategy also from what I was doing on Yahoo.
This represents a great improvement for me in the number of items I am selling, not necessarily in the amount I am making. But that is climbing steadily also.
I am curious about one thing:
>>>>"My Yahoo sales were less than 50% of my ebay sales volume before fees. They are now close to 75%."<<<<
This statement is ambiguous to me. Do you now mean 75% of the items you are listing? Or is that 75% of what you were selling before? Or is that 75% of what you are now selling on Ebay?
As I said, I am just curious. Like you said, not everything will work for everyone. At least you did not come here and try to tell us that we should all feel that it is OK to go running back to Yahoo now. I respect you for that and wish you sales wherever you list.
I thought much of the thread has been an answer to InsightWatcher's questions. Do you really need a linear response that goes 1) ... 2) ... 3) ... ?
The sellers here are so down on Yahoo and it seems like most here wish it to fail. That's backwards. Let's say Yahoo Auctions does the opposite and achieves some level of success. What does that mean for Yahoo sellers?
I absolutely have no understanding of your continued posts on this thread...
You write-
<<<The sellers here are so down on Yahoo and it seems like most here wish it to fail. That's backwards. Let's say Yahoo Auctions does the opposite and achieves some level of success. What does that mean for Yahoo sellers?>>>
With all due respect, YOU have it backwards. First, the negative attitude towards Yahoo Management "wishing it to fail" is NOT simply because of the fees, it's IMHO primarily because of their lying spins, and their almost complete disregard for and mistreatment of many of the sellers posting auctions there. How anyone who is even remotely familiar with the stupid bogus circus YooHoo put on with their "chats" last month can even think that they want to listen to sellers, or for that matter anyone but people like idiot Wall St. analysts who have taken people for a steep downhill ride on Web stocks with them in the past 18 months, is way beyond me. And IF Yahoo "does the opposite" and achieves WHATEVER any seller can call success, you can rest assured that when evidence of this "whatever" is presented to sellers, all sellers who think that Yahoo Auctioos can be an asset to them will start listing again as fast as you can say "Auction Watch." PERIOD. That's the simple, clear, and obvious answer to your question "What does that mean for Yahoo sellers." These IDIOTS at Yahoo who claim a 33% sell-through rate (but won't present hard stats BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE), when anyone with a mouse, a computer, and an ISP connection can see that that is exagerrated by orders of magnitude, do nothing but further aggravate
any negative feelings any seller might have towards them...
BUTTTTTTTT... the day when YooHoo is worth listing on for most who don't have funny money is apparently NOT here, and there are very few who even see the prospect of it coming, so to tell the people that are looking at the reality of Yoohoo as it is today that THEY have it backwards, and then to present a hypothetical "what if" is incomprehensible.
NO ONE wishes any seller that is currently having any success with Yoohoo ill. Continued good luck to them for whatever reason they are being successful now.
posted on March 2, 2001 08:56:01 AM
This thread is more akin to the scientist that draws a line on a sheet of graph paper and then tries to come up with the datapoints that fit the line, and thus prove his conclusion.
< grin >
what else? typo.
[ edited by dimview on Mar 2, 2001 09:28 AM ]
As I mentioned earlier, I was not being disrespectful of your thread. Just the assumption we should all go "...back on board...". As far as any seller's success. I wish them success no matter where they sell, where ever that is. Yes, even if it IS on Yahoo! Auctions. I'm sorry, for the sake of this thread, I can not support Yahoo!s plea for advice now. That is insulting of our intelligence. They have done that far to many times already. We are not their 'puppets on a string', they seem to forget that, A LOT.
.
posted on March 2, 2001 01:33:11 PM
So are the last several people who posted on this thread advocating that those who were solicited for input tell Yahoo Auctions something like:
"You guys betrayed us with your fee and your blatant lies. Therefore, I hope you fail and take the remaining Yahoo sellers down with you."
Or should those who were asked for input provide reasoned discussion of how they think Yahoo can improve from this point on? (assuming they're sincere in asking)
Ya know, Yahoo is a business. You folks are in business. It's not like some relative betrayed you or something. Yahoo is a corporation. If you want to do business with it then do business with it. If you choose not to, then don't.
No, I do have it the right way.
Yahooo failing <===> Yahoo sellers failing
Yahoo succeeding <===> Yahoo sellers succeeding
Well, whoever wants it can have the last word. Sheesh, you folks are tenacious.
posted on March 2, 2001 01:51:40 PM
Y'know, John, it would be nice if when you ask a "question," you don't manipulate the question to answer itself if you TRULY WANT an answer- that's a conversational low blow...
<<<<So are the last several people who posted on this thread advocating that those who were solicited for input tell Yahoo Auctions something like:
"You guys betrayed us with your fee and your blatant lies. Therefore, I hope you fail and take the remaining Yahoo sellers down with you.">>>
NOOOO, John-
#1. I personally wouldn't bother answering any YooHoo questions. I don't care for exercises in futility, but that's just me...
#2. Is your little answer there our only choice if we're negative about Yahoo? What kind of logic dictated that a person couldn't say "You guys betrayed us with your fees and your blatant lies" (AT LEAST the second part is true), without the "Therefore, I hope you fail and take the remaining Yahoo sellers down with you"? I resent having words put in my mouth, and I'm sure that most of us in the "negative corner" about Yahoo do also... I'd LOVE to see YooHoo miraculously turn itself around and become a viable place where I can sell, I'd swallow my words, and RUN back there, GLADLY giving them their fees if that happened. And I'd be caught in the crush of most of the other sellers knocking Yahoo here that would run to join me, I'm sure. OBVIOUSLY.
<<<Or should those who were asked for input provide reasoned discussion of how they think Yahoo can improve from this point on? (assuming they're sincere in asking)>>>
After their actions of the past 2 months including their bogus chats, and their constant lies to the media which both misrepresent the results of their idiocy, and denigrate the vast majority of sellers there at the same time, ON WHAT BLESSED BASIS CAN ANYONE ASSUME THAT THEY'RE SINCERE IN ASKING?
I'm really curious as to why you persist with this. Your question distilled is if Yahoo Auctions becomes a viable auction site, what will sellers do... The answer is- SELL THERE AGAIN. PERIOD. END (or start) of story.
posted on March 2, 2001 01:58:17 PM
John10101 >
Or should those who were asked for input provide reasoned discussion of how they think Yahoo can improve from this point on? (assuming they're sincere in asking)
Ummmmm, did Yahoo!Auctions mistakenly delete all the e-mail from early-January, you know, the ones with comments and suggestions about the ill-conceived listing fees?
And don't forget. Why would they want those who left to return? We were, afterall, collectively responsible for the "clutter".
[ edited by dimview on Mar 2, 2001 02:01 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2001 02:21:54 PM
My last comment on this topic is this. IF Yahoo! Auctions fully succeeded in getting all they wanted. The "clutter" gone, the "junk" gone, and the "noise" gone, and made the projected $50 to $80 million dollars doing it. Would they ask for opinions now? Of course not, they would be talking down to us more than ever. Gloating over what they did to us, and their site.
.
