We've heard about road rage and air rage. But what about online auction rage? I'm working on a story for AuctionWatch that has to do with how folks sometimes can't control their anger when it comes to buying and selling at online auction. I'm looking for examples of such behavior.
Have you been the victim or heard about cases of online auction rage (harassing a seller with threats via email or the telephone, placing bids on all of a seller's auctions to get back at him/her with no intent of paying, etc.)? And do you have any thoughts on why this kind of thing happens? Does the anonymity of the Internet and online auctions embolden people to commit acts that they might not otherwise do?
Feel free to post your comments here or send them to me via email at [email protected]. Many thanks.
posted on May 19, 2001 01:13:44 AM new
If you want to experience online auction rage, visit Yahoo and start selling. A negative feedback reply I got from a buyer when I told him I can't access my PayDirect account due to technical difficulties, was "You're a scammer," followed by several more negs that just got nastier.
It's bullish behavior equivalant to taking someone's head and smashing it against the wall until you give in. The worst part is that basic logic will solve their problems.
A single mom of one decided the best way to handling a lost check was not to email me the seller, but to leave a negative feedback everyday calling me all sorts of names. I failed to pursuade her to just call her bank and see if the check was cashed. 13 negatives by her left to me and not once did she call her bank.
Recently a buyer bought 5 items from me, and they were damaged enroute. He had to leave me a neutral for each item damaged although they were combined in shipping. He didn't even email me to ask how this should be resolved. I had told him that they were insured and FedEx will take care of it. Case closed.
It's a volatile mix of insecurity and
ignorance. The fear that people are out to cheat them, causes the situation to come alive in their head. They like to play victim rather than learn that their actions can prevent situtations. By changing their attitude that people are not out to rip them off, they'll see that when a check is lost it may not be the sellers fault and that the check is truly lost, then taking action to find it rather than reporting the seller to the FBI.
posted on May 19, 2001 07:06:41 AM new
There are various degrees of auction rage and I seem to have gone through the whole range in the space of a month.
I had a seller in Florida send me a nice email advising me that I'd won a $10 auction but his response turned to pure venom when he found out I was an International buyer. Not that he stated in his description that he didn't accept international bidders, to the contrary, he stated that International Paypal was accepted. As it was only a postcard and I knew that postage wouldn't cost more than $2 I sent him $12 through PayPal which he promptly accepted and he sent me an email stating that he would keep it to teach me a lesson and that I wouldn't be getting my postcard.
Two days later I received a series of emails from him stating that he had been drunk for 3 days, begged me not to turn him into PayPal and sent me 4 postcards instead of one.
A few days later I had two bids on an item I was selling. Both were for $30. After auction close one of the bidders emailed me and abused me because his bid of equal value hadn't been the winning bid. He demanded to have the item sent to him so I tracked down a similar item at a local junk shop and got 2 sales instead of one.
I had a winning bid of $15 on a nice piece of porcelain and instead of receiving a winning bidder notification from the seller I got an email stating that he had smashed the item in a rage because he expected to get a lot more for it and would rather see it smashed than have it go for such a low price. To back up his statement he emailed me 8 scans (one piece at a time) showing the item in little pieces.
I think there are many different types of auction rage. Some is motivated by greed, jealousy or disappointment and some caused by drink, drugs or a combination of all of the above.
The anonomyous face of bidder and seller will always lead to outbursts of one kind or another. And the online auctions are a breeding ground for outcasts of all descriptions. Nobody in the real world takes notice of them so they make their mark by venting their anger on the computer.
posted on May 19, 2001 11:13:47 AM new
If you want to learn about on line auction rage just look at how Yahoo auctions treated their former auction sellers from the first of the year until now. Almost 93% of the auctions are gone now and Yahoo's clueless decisions are some of the biggest blunders in online auction history. Their behavior is a classic story of how to p*ss off as many people as possible that supported your site, some for many years while it was growing, in the shortest period of time.
Instead of all of the ebay stories, most writers missed the biggest auction story of the year at Yahoo auctions. A site that had millions of items for auction and many happy sellers and buyers was reduced to rubble in a few short months.
Maybe they should have asked the people that supported them and built the site for their input instead of creating policy from people that had little idea of the big picture. As one of those that was at the online chats in January. It was not a pretty site. What was said and what is shown in the Yahoo transcripts at the auction site are very different.
posted on May 21, 2001 11:24:50 AM new
Should be an interesting article. I've always wondered why people get so angry about online auctions. I think it's part of a bigger picture, where email gets you to fire off your feelings and vent instantly. People say things they'd likely never say in public, and if they sat on their message email for 24 hours they'd probably rewrite it and make it more solution based instead of full of bravado. Makes for entertaining message boards, but take most of them with a grain of salt.
posted on May 21, 2001 11:49:10 AM new
Auction Rage:
I think the media primes the public to anger by selecting the most horrendous stories about seller misdeeds and blanketing the TV, newspapers & radio stations. When you hear one horror story about auctions - it spreads and other media pickup on the same story.
Honest sellers often don't have a chance to resolve problems responsibly because of the adverse publicity and reputation provided by the media.
It is interesting to me that the reports of great buys one finds thru on-line auctions is so separated in buyers minds from the alledged sorry sellers stories.
I know that writers must write about something and announcers must talk to be paid, but it would be more beneficial to the public to promote positive on-line experiences and list ways to avoid bad experiences.
Comments about a seller are very important - buyers should check them. Buyers should buy from sellers who sell on sites that offer A-Z guarantees or some type of buyer protection. A deal too good to be true - probably is. etc....
posted on May 21, 2001 04:04:27 PM new
A great deal of Auction rage is nourished and sponsored by message boards such as AW, etc.
You get one nasty post and misfits come out of the woodwork to better the last post.
Another major contributing factor is the feedback system where business partners are encouraged and expected to make a comment for better or for worse. If a bad buyer or seller is roasted by the other party it is human nature that it won't go unanswered in a like manner by the other party even to the point of lies being told.
posted on May 22, 2001 03:22:44 PM new
I have seen some growing trends in the seller version of auction rage.
more and more militaristic TOS in auction adds.
Threats of negs for non payment within 7-10 days NO EXCEPTIONS.
Statments in auction adds stating they no longer accept checks due to many recent bad checks recieved blah blah blah
Of course all of this in bold, colorful text.
Not that these were all new concepts just that they are becoming more "unfriendly" looking and stern, many times using the phrases of NO EXCEPTIONS or SERIOUS BIDDERS ONLY!!!!
NO PERSONAL CHECKS!!! NO PAYPAL!!!
Sure sellers can list their terms of how to pay etc etc but too many auction listings seem more fierce in the MUST DO'S and MUST NOT DO'S
I see an all around angrier vibe as I shop.
http://www.lovepotions.net
posted on May 22, 2001 05:22:37 PM new
I wouldn't consider a seller's TOS as "rage" unless it said, "Pay within 10 days or I'll come to your house with a shotgun and blow off your knee caps!" lol
posted on May 22, 2001 05:58:32 PM new
Whichever way one looks at it, auction rage starts on the auction site. There are threats of being kicked off … threats of bad feedback … all kinds of threats and conditions in the user agreement.
Then the seller appears on the scene. Don’t bid unless you are serious … pay up within 7, 10, whatever days or I’ll leave bad feedback …. Don’t send anything but cash, or a money order. Extra charge for Handling. I don’t accept this and that. This is very rare (along with 2 million others). Perfect condition. No cracks or chips. I will ship immediately I receive payment. Etc, etc, etc
Enter the buyer. He bids his money, sends it away and waits … and waits. Finally, two weeks later, his “rare” 19th century Oriental Satsuma Vase arrives badly packaged. (He paid extra for this??). He opens it very carefully. Thankfully it is still in one piece. He takes a closer look. He’s no expert on the subject but Blind Freddie could see that it’s a 1970’s reproduction from Hong Kong. And isn’t that a hairline crack going from top to bottom? Sure is! He smells the vase and it has a stench of bleach. The seller soaked it in bleach to cover up the fact that it was cracked.
He sends an anxious email to the seller. “The vase arrived. It has a hairline crack. You said it was perfect. Also, this is a 1970’s reproduction from Hong Kong. I would like a refund, please”.
Three days later he receives a reply. “The vase wasn’t damaged when I sent it. I encouraged you to take insurance and you didn’t listen!” End of subject.
Dilemma! The buyer is stuck with a cracked fake. Does he Neg. the seller as the sites want you to do and risk getting a Neg. back? Or does he just grin and bear it? Or will he vent his rage? You decide.
posted on May 22, 2001 06:23:29 PM new
Venting rage doesn't solve anything even if the item is a fake. Why justify the least intelligent approach to one's problem? The seller may have been taken too from the person he bought the vase from, and unknowingly sold it to someone else. Being friendly and inquiring for a solution is the best approach.
Also, when the seller sets his terms doesn't that allow any potential bidders who can't agree to them to bid elsewhere. To me that is a simple way to avoid conflict. As responsible adults, everyone should accept responsibility for themselves. If a driver cuts in front of you do you think the cops will look the other way when you ram your car into that other person's car?
[ edited by quickdraw29 on May 22, 2001 06:34 PM ]
posted on May 23, 2001 08:26:49 PM new
My point and opinion was that I was seeing more of it and in a more stern language than I had been seeing it in my auction carreer.
A seller who doesnt take personal checks.......fine with me. But to state it inside the auction description they don't accept them because they got a lot of bad checks recently if frankly no concern to me nor do I need to read in an auction add.
Sellers are pointing out why they dont take certain forms of payment. I don't care why I only need to know what they will accept.
Say " I don't accept personal checks"
Don't say " I don't take checks because I have been ripped off by many in the past.
That is just one example.
Payment must be in by 10 days or negative feedback will be left and I will file a claim against you with Ebay should be within an EOA not an auction description, let alone in large, bold, red type.
I am seeing more hostile descriptions/TOS lately. Those sellers should tone it down or realize that maybe they shouldn't be selling to random people on the internet as a carreer choice.
Selling on Ebay/Yahoo and other auctions is selling to random people you never met on the internet. Some people are forgetting that part.
Dead beats are all just part of selling at these auction sites and militaristic TOS doesn't stop dead beats. In my opinion it is a turn off to nice folks and scare them away from bidding on the drill sargents items.
posted on May 23, 2001 09:01:01 PM new
Good point, I agree. Make the TOS sound professional not personal. A lot of people are new at this and are in the learning stages. That's the solution to all of auction rage- educating people the proper steps to take. It will take time, but it can be done.
posted on June 5, 2001 06:14:08 AM new
I have had a few bad experiences under my auction name. I sold an item and sent an email to the winner. three days later there was no reply so i emailed another asking them to email me their mailing address so i knew whether or not they received my email. This person emailed me alright.. threatening me for bothering her. She ended up emailing me 5 different times saying how she is going to have her boyfriend kick my butt so finally i had had enough and sent her a not so nice email. then she emailed me saying how her life had been so bad lately and she just lashed out. needless to say.. she never did pay for the item either. some winners just get nasty because they are bidding to play with peoples auctions but have no intention on paying
posted on June 23, 2001 09:46:04 PM new
I wish! I was ripped-off by a lady who promised a guaranteed delivery date or my money refunded...5 MONTHS LATER, several rejected emails, letters, registered letter, reports, phone calls to the seller's local police dept., the FBI, BBB, credit card co. & anyone else that would listen ... I NEVER GOT MY MONEY BACK.
So, I learned the following:
1. Only spend what you are willing to lose.
2. Make sure you pay by creditcard
3. Insure what you aren't willing to lose.
3A. NEVER buy advanced sales.
4. Only buy from people with positive feedback.
5. I research everyone I bid on, and if there is anything less than Positive, I make a personal decision. I have even go so far as to email the person with negative feedback & why they rec'd it. Check out
WWW.TRADERLIST.COM to research crappy sellers.
6. Shop locally & save all of the blame shipping/insurance charges.
7. Just smile & remember we are all a part of this small world.
posted on June 24, 2001 05:40:34 AM new
MOST BIDDERS DO NOT READ!!
first they are always in a hurry ,as there are so many new items coming to cyber auction,they are in a hurry to see them all.
second they are interested in the item,your item is one of many they consider bidding,they are not interested in your life history or one whole page of TOS ,some of them take a long time to load and overshadow everything else such as the item itself.
some sellers place themselves in the centre of unniverse,and what they sell make you laugh,some item plucked from their basement!!
many bidders are verterans in this auction game,they figure sellers are anxious to sell as they have already paid listing fee,so if they sent you a personal check ,so if they are overseas buyers??
some seller will return the customer's personal check which is mighty fine ,as now they have the money to bid on something new,there is always something new on the horizon.
in plain english,e commerce has become the buyer's market,gone are the days a bidder has to set alarm clock to get out of bed at 3 am to outbid someone.
