posted on September 23, 2001 04:28:46 PM new
OK, I have never been accussed of being a rocket scientist, but I am very puzzled with this. I need a basic Business 101 crash course and I hope maybe someone familiar with Yahoo Auctions can explaaaain this to me.
Why would anyone pay $50 to sell a $25 item? I tried to feature an item and when the page came up showing all the "bids" , a $1.00 would have only gotten me at #89 on the featured list!!!!!!! I was shocked! There were bids as high as $5.00!
I took a look at the auctions in the top 50 positions and found that many of these sellers are FEATURED and/or PREMIUM SELLERS who start their auctions at $1.00 NR and run for 10 days. They normally close at between $25.00-$50.00. There of course are exceptions.
Even if they get 1/2 of their features fees back through Yahoo's feature auction rebate program, even if they got the item for FREE , I can't see where they could possibly come out ahead!
So what am I missing????? These are fairly new Yahoo sellers who arrived on the scene after the credit for FB promotion so if they are using credits, where did those credits come from????? Could Yahoo have just given them X$s in feature credits to get them started or encourage them to list on Yahoo?????
posted on September 23, 2001 05:26:25 PM new
Interesting speculation. Yahoo *did* once give funny money credits on the basis of $1 per feedback point on Yahoo, and twice on other occasions for FB on eBay. I would not be a teeny bit surprised if they were handing, say, $1000 in wallet credits to sellers they wanted to try their system. And if so, they sure wouldn't want you-and-me to know they were killing our featuring leverage that way...
Keep in mind it's possible to list an item with a quite low featuring bid then try to vault up past everyone else on only your last day or two. For example, start a listing to run a week ending on a Sunday night, stick it in at a 10c/day or 12c/day featuring "just in case" it get you into the top-26 for the gallery, then mid-day Saturday slap it up with a $5/day bid if that's what it takes to be at the list top... assuming you in fact sell the item that's still under $5 total listing and featuring charges. Very much like a buyer's sniping, hoping your competition doesn't notice or realize they can just outbid you in 10c increments.
posted on September 23, 2001 05:49:56 PM new
Has to be free credits. A seller with a lot of non-yahoo positive feedback would have gotten a lot when the free credits were offered. For some reason I took them up on the offer but never paid much attention. When yahoo started charging and listings dropped it was pretty easy to see why they offered so much in free credits to established internet auction sellers. It was a huge betrayal of the sellers that made yahoo so successful.
I nailed a yahoo rep at a trade show. He explained that for some reason it's illegal to offer the same deal to their existing seller. I know I can't trust them not to do to me what they did to their own sellers.
dendude
posted on September 23, 2001 08:03:57 PM new
Thanks pyth00n-I'll try that. It's really hard in my category to get anyone to find you if you don't show up on the top 2 pages of your category! What I sell doesn't really lend itself to "searches" it's more of a "browse" item that has to just "grab" someone. There was a time when $1.00 got you in the top 5 spots and featured auctions were usually only 1/2 of the first page! Every since the free credits were given for FB it has taken $1.00 just to get you in the top 50 but there still was only about 3 pages of featured. Now, it's $5.00 for top spots and $1.00 to hopefully be in the top 100!
I swear, if it keeps going like it is now, it won't be long before my entire category is FEATURED AUCTIONS!!!!!
That's why I strongly suspect there is some behind the scenes dealing going on between Yahoo and some of these sellers.
I have asked Yahoo about it, but I'm not holding my breath waiting on an answer!
Edited to add: I just did a check. There are currently 8 & 1/2 pages of FEATURED auctions in my category out of 69 pages total. A quarter will get you at the bottom of page 4! Lots of them are "highlighted" at $.50 each. Let's see, $1.50 listing + $.50 highlighted + $50.00 feature fee = $52.00 to sell an item for $31.50!!!! Now I see what I'm doing wrong, I thought I was suppose to make more than it cost me to be considered a "sucessful Yahoo seller"! Silly me, I had it all wrong...Seems Yahoo defines "successful seller" as a seller who pays them the most fees.....
posted on September 23, 2001 10:56:32 PM new
It has to be the free Yahoo Credits. When Yahoo started listing fees many sellers believed that their free credits would be voided out and they spent most of it on features. I remember reading one poster here last January saying that they had a letter from Yahoo saying that the credits would be voided out in a week. I believed them and I spent an hour using $300 or $400 worth of credits to feature my auctions. I really wish I had those wasted credits back now as that poster was full of baloney.
posted on September 24, 2001 04:37:01 PM new
sulyn,
I may not have spotted the area you're looking at, but it looks similar, and I would say, "There went the neighborhood." One particular dealer has the first 100 places nearly locked-up with $5/day featuring bids en masse. Even if they average only 4 days' run, that's $2000 cost each week. Many of the cheaper auctions have reserves, btw, no telling how high. The seller also has $8 shipping charges on all items, and as very small items maybe they're hoping that covers some of the featuring charges?
I retract my speculation they gave these guys $1000 free.... either they've been on eBay and have 5000 to 10,000 FB there AND collected the Yahoo funny-money, OR Yahoo handed them maybe ten grand to get them to use Yahoo Stores and Auctions.
Anyone normal who sells items in a category that gets hit like that is toast, I'd say. You just have to maybe look for an un-trashed category .... sometimes you can list in any of several places.
My prediction is they vanish after a few weeks, as soon as they do a cost/benefit analysis of overhead if they were using real money. Jeez, they didn't HAVE to bid $5 there, they could've taken over at $1.25 or $1.50 a day. That's the clue they aren't using their own money. In the meantime, the funny-money does give them advertising and maybe expand their routine mailing list.
posted on September 24, 2001 06:31:17 PM newpyth00n-We probably are looking in the same area. I have been watching them since they "arrived"! Yahoo had sent me a "newsletter" introducing them and welcoming them as the "newest" premium sellers....(I can't seem to let that go but I'm trying). They are obviously a very large company (judging from their website) and not a little "mom&pop" enterprise. I am sure their survival does not require they have profits on Yahoo Auctions! Maybe they are using the auction venue as a writeoff on their main business? About 4 arrived within a month of each other and just after the mass exodus of the regular sellers when the fees kicked in.
If you look at their closed auctions, yes they appear to do quite well. I find the closed auctions on Yahoo quite misleading. They need to show ALL the auctions NOT just the ones sold. They may have sold 100 in a month and I would be thrilled with the results myself, but if you've watched them closely (and I have) you know that they listeda 1000 for the month! When you factor in the volume they list for the month, how much doesn't sell, end prices and the expense of listing and featuring 1000+ items per month at $3.00-$5.00 per day, it just does not compute. Why would they be doing that UNLESS they were not really paying to feature, maybe they don't even pay to list! One of the 4 giants (that's how I see them anyway) even has a banner add! Wonder what those cost!!!!! I guarantee they don't pay for it out of their Yahoo Auction profits!!!!!!!
I'm quantum leaping here I know....But maybe Yahoo even pays them (above and beyond free stuff) to list!!!!!
However they are doing it, they have pretty much locked up my category. There just aren't enough buyers to go around for all of us. New buyers seem to be attracted to them because they do come off as a business in their auctions and I guess they feel safer dealing with a "Walmart" type seller, than the "guy selling out of the back of his car". I guess I look like the "trunk" seller....
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 24, 2001 06:33 PM ]
posted on September 24, 2001 07:24:29 PM new
Maybe they won that $100K sweepstakes back at the start of the summer and negotiated featuring credits as part of it?? I suspect that some of the specialized category managers go out to gift and jewelry shows and exclusive shopping areas beating the bushes for new sellers like those guys... then offer them a huge bucket of credits to use. Probably not a bad merchandising strategy for Yahoo, I guess, at least as long as nobody can be certain they're doing it, and IF the money does run out after a month or two experimental period.
posted on September 24, 2001 07:54:51 PM new
Well, you could be right.
I have seen a couple of sellers trying to "compete" for position with them, but it hasn't seem to help them. They are still sitting on under 25 FB after 6 months while these guys are steady climbing! I think it definitely helps to have the spot light on you with those magic words FEATURED or PREMIUM with a direct link to all your auctions!
I find myself wondering, if I had my own spot on the main category page and had those cute pink ribbons on ALL my items, and Yahoo emailed subscribers a newsletter with my ID and welcomed me to their site as a "new" seller....how well would I be doing right now? Of course, if I was still bombing, who could I blame then?????
It's just been a puzzlement to me, because everything I learned in my business classes waaaaay back when didn't prepare me for this type of selling! I appreciate your responses and I am glad to see that I wasn't just imagining or "seeing" things that weren't reaaaaly there! I don't know how they are doing it, but they are doing it and there isn't anything I can do about it anyway. So I guess I just have to get over it....
I keep hoping they will decide it's not worth it, but if they are using it as a write off, they could be here forever!
Edited because the banner ad I thought had always been there was a different company altogether so this seller may indeed be the winner of Yahoo's CONTEST!!!! Does anyone remember ever seeing or hearing how that contest came out??? I don't remember ever seeing who won but I could have missed it.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 29, 2001 02:36 PM ]
posted on September 26, 2001 09:06:01 PM new
I HAVE BEEN SELLING ON EBAY AND WANT TO DIVERSIFY TO YAHOO !
-----------------------------------
WHAT ARE YAHOO CREDIT AND REBATES I AM READING ABOUT ?
---------------------------------
FROM ONE RESPONSE BELOW:
" I think it definitely helps to have the spot light on you with those magic words FEATURED or PREMIUM with a direct link to all your auctions! " and
"ck 5-6 well known popular items guaranteed to be sold. (getting my rebate) "
WHAT IS THAT AS WELL ?
---------------------------------------
thanks for h elp
posted on September 27, 2001 04:13:46 PM newstacyp-At one time Yahoo ran a promotion to try and attract sellers and they gave them credit for each positive they had on eBay which could be used to FEATURE their items. On Yahoo you "bid" for placement on the featured list. Starts out at a minimum of 10cents per day and the sky is the limit. You can increase it as the auction progresses. So I could start out at $ .10 and be charged $1.00 for 10 days, then on the final two days, I could bump up my bid (using the link provided on each auction page) to whatever I wanted, lets say $1.00 for the remaining two days. I would be charged $1.00 for the 10 days + $.90 more for 2=$1.80 for a total of $2.80 feature fees added to the listing fees of course. DID I GET THIS RIGHT????????????
Doesn't sound too bad. Only problem is, that in some categories you need to bid $3.00 PER DAY + just to get anywhere near the top. If you are not on the first 2-3 pages, you will not have anywhere near the views (know from personal experience and even used HONEST counters to verify Yahoo counters) you get from being on the top 3 pages and IN MY CASE it makes a big difference as to whether I get bids or not!
If the item you feature sells, you get a rebate of 1/2 the amount you paid to feature up to $25 per individual sucessful auction.
Yahoo also implemented a program called PREMIUM SELLERS just after they lost so many sellers due to the fees. Supposedly, a seller earns this "honor" . To do that you are suppose to maintain good FB, a steady number of listings, a good sell-through ratio and open a FREE Yahoo Booth and keep it current.
The reason for the Booth, is to enable a direct link, from the logo of the PREMIUM SELLER, to their auctions. Because they are located on the category pages, a buyer can technically by-pass all other auctions and only see the auctions of Premium Seller's IF they choose to.
Yahoo gets lots of new users. I can't help but think they would prefer to stay with the sellers "advertised" on the category pages because they somehow feel they are "better" or at least "safer". If you ask Yahoo (I have) they will tell you they are not endorsing these sellers in anyway!
I would not really object to this special treatment IF it was run the way Yahoo states it is. Instead, some sellers who have been on Yahoo for years with very high and good FB who list consitantly and have good sell-throughs, ARE NOT YET Premium Sellers while some new comers start out on Yahoo that way. It may sound like sour grapes on my part, but truthfully, I would not qualify as a PS because I don't list consistantly and I don't maintain a high sell through. However, there are plenty "old timers" who do qualify yet they are not PS. It seems to negate the whole program, in my opinion.
Then, there are sellers who show up on the category pages under the heading FEATURED SELLERS. I have emailed Yahoo asking for an explaination of how one is chosen to be a FEATURED SELLER? I asked if it was something they paid for and nobody has yet to respond with an answer. You will not find any info on the site either. At least I haven't been able to.
I have also let Yahoo know, I think they need to adhere to their own stated policy on what it takes to be a PREMIUM SELLER, but they haven't answered those emails either.
Although I may sound really down on Yahoo I am not. They just need some "tweeking" . If they would only listen to me, I could have everything straightened out in no time!!! LOL
I do think Yahoo needs to be a little more fair in their dealings with ALL sellers, but hopefully there will come a time when there is enough business to go around for everybody and the programs will be 100% merit based. I can dream can't I????
I hope I answered your questions without boring you to death. I can get carried away! Sorry!
Sulyn
Oops! forgot to say...Welcome to Yahoo!!!
Forgive me horrible math!!!!!!
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 27, 2001 04:31 PM ]
posted on September 29, 2001 06:57:35 AM new
I just bumped up a featured item to a spot which should have been the #5 spot. I then clicked the link to the featured section and saw my auction was at the #8 spot. Three auctions listed high in the featured section were not featured at all. Perhaps that's "how they do that."
How does one feature without paying the feature fee? Do they get 1/2 of nothing refunded? I'll be seeing a Yahoo rep at a trade show next week, perhaps he'll have an answer (unless someone here can answer).
dendude
posted on September 29, 2001 07:56:21 AM newdendude-Oh what I would give to be able to "corner" a Yahoo rep for a "chat"!
From time to time there have been posts about the glitches in the featured category.
I have had it "cheat" me several times, but persistance and lots of emails over a period of weeks did get me a refund!!!!
While you have the guy cornered, could you ask them to PLEEEZE change the heading on the HOT category to anything else but HOT!!! "SPOTLIGHTED" would be more appropriate IMO! Since that is actually what is happening....
It really bothers me to see:"Hot acutions are a sampling of current auctions with the most bidding activity from sellers with the highest FB rating" and all that is showing up are auctions with 1 bid from a seller with a FB of 3!!!
I have mentioned to them (more than once ) that might be sending the wrong message to potential new users (buyers and sellers). It seems to be saying that "Yahoo is sooooo "dead", if an auction gets even one bid IT IS A HOT ITEM!!!!" or LOOKEY HERE we got a real live BIDDER, WOOPIE!!! Yes, I am being silly, but calling an auction with 1 bid HOT looks pretty silly too!
I think it is supose to be random but the "system" doesn't necessarily pick up auctions with lots of bids. I have come across auctions that have 15-25 bids that don't ever seem to make it to HOT while those with "1" bid set there for days!
Drives me crazy!!!! Surely I'm not the only person who has noticed this or that it bothers??? Can I be that nit-picky????
Soooo, if Icould talk to a rep, I'd tell him:
1)Kill the FEATURED SELLERS (unless it is a paid for position and if it is a paid for position than they need to highlight that fact and open it up to anybody who wants to annie up!
2)Follow their own rules about PREMIUM SELLERS and make it 100% merrit based and stop handing it out like candy to the "big boys"!
3)Change that darn HOT category to either pull auctions up that have more than 1 bid OR change the title to something else.
4)Ask them if they give the large corporate businesses and liquidators FREEBIES they don't give anyone else???? Like free FEATURING????
5)If they do give FEATURING CREDITS to some, they need to limit how many can be used at a time so that some of the little guys can afford to feature if they want to!
Lastly (promise)-WE NEED A "TIME-SENSITIVE" EMAIL ADDY AND A REAL LIVE PERSON TO LOOK AT REPORTED PROBLEMS BEFORE THE AUCTION IS OVER and a way to request fees back when Yahoo's "glitches" cause real problems!!!
Boy how I wish I was going to get to talk to a rep....Good luck to ya!!!!
posted on September 29, 2001 08:38:20 AM new
Sulyn1950,
I've printed your questions and will bring them with me.
It would seem that they do offer free features because the three auctions that put my listing at the #8 spot are not featured at all. No little yellow highlighted "featured."
dendude
posted on September 29, 2001 02:59:19 PM new
I'll do my best to get a solid answer and report. Please keep in mind that it's only a rep and a yahoo rep at that.
posted on October 13, 2001 09:16:26 AM new
I come to you with a heavy heart. I forgot to bring the print out and remembered very few things. I'm just plain getting old, sorry that I let you down.
Had a very pleasant conversation with the rep. I'm doing pretty well at yahoo and that may have influenced my disposition.
I did ask about qualifications for the premium seller program. The rep was somewhat vague and suggested that any person interested could email and request more information about being added to the program.
I asked about a time sensitive email support. This is not a quote just an interpretation. Everybody feels that their email is time sensitive and wants immediate attention. I can see the point (sorry). I guess a person requesting assistance will have to wade through all the auto response crap.
I didn't remember any of the feature seller questions. Totally forgot the "hot" question. I have to agree it's really stupid to show an auction with one bid as hot. I'll save the print out and ask when I see them again.
I'm enjoying reasonable success at yahoo right now. I have a wierd feeling about eBay lately and don't like the direction they've run off in. Nice to have an alternative. I'd like to see yahoo become more of a player in the auction game. The rep I spoke with seemed to imply that they are considering a switch to fvf. Just by gesture not verbally. Personally I'd prefer they not change to just fvf but can understand other persons positions.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 24, 2001 06:33 PM ]
so this seller may indeed be the winner of Yahoo's CONTEST!!!! Does anyone remember ever seeing or hearing how that contest came out??? I don't remember ever seeing who won but I could have missed it. 
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 29, 2001 02:36 PM ]