posted on September 13, 2000 09:53:55 AM new
You are now greeted with a screen at Paypal where you must upgrade to Business Class or lie and say you are not a seller.
Go ahead and upgrade now if you're going to. The fees don't start until October 1.
I will pass 2% along to the buyer starting then. This is only fair and is well worth it to the buyer as opposed to buying a money order, etc.
In the meantime, I have called paypal and made demands now that I'm in business class...I want them to quit the OPTIONAL name verification and make it MANDANTORY when sending money.
Almost EVERY DAY some moron attempts to send me a Paypal payment but types my name wrong and doesn't use the name verification option.
You would think when the email bounces back as undeliverable they would alert the sender but no.... All they do is routinely (when money is sent to an account that doesn't exist) say that the money is as yet unclaimed. So these morons just assume it is up to me to claim it when in fact, if they get it right, I don't have to claim it...it's automatic.
This problem is so easily solved...by making a name match the email address...that it makes me wonder if the yahoobots aren't somehow invoolved with Paypal???
So what happens every day is I send a notice after waiting 2 weeks for an overdue payment and the person responds that they paid me 2 weels ago and that I didn't claim it yet. This happens so often I have a form I use which you may Copy and Paste and use yourself:
===============
What usually goes wrong is you got my email address wrong. When that happens, it sends out an email to that address anyways and hopes if it's valid the party will sign up and claim the money. Most likely you typed a non-existant email address and it got lost in cyberspace forever.
Anyways, go back to Paypal and cancel that payment. It will be unclaimed (at least by me...when you get it right I don't have to claim it...I get it automatically). Then COPY and PASTE my email address in the space provided and use my last name ZAMBONI in the field for that. This is an optional check that you got it right and Paypal will let you know if they don't match. Thanks
Here is how to copy and paste using Microsoft Windows:
Hold down the left mouse button while scrolling the mouse over my email address below:
It should turn blue. Then hold down the CONTROL key and at the same time press the C key. That copies whatever is highlighted to memory in your CLIPBOARD, a temporary holding area.
Then go the the place in Paypal where it asks for my email address. Click your mouse button one time in that window to let Windows know you want to work there. then hold down the CONTROL key once again and this time press the V key at the same time to PASTE what is in the CLIPBOARD (my email address) into that window.
That way there won't be any typos (you may have thought those were O's in my address when in fact they are Zeros. Anyways, the COPY and PASTE routine is VERY useful for may other things and after you get used to it you will find it a necessity.
posted on September 13, 2000 01:01:56 PM new
I accept Paypal, Money Orders/Bank Drafts & checks & evn cash as payment. Paypal isn't the end of it, its just another option for the buyer to use.
Agreed, will still use Paypal even though there will be fees.
posted on September 13, 2000 04:38:32 PM new
plese not it is also aginst federal banking laws to pass your merchant fees for credit cards on to the use of the card.
if caought it means posible time in prison and up to $10,000 fine for each day you did this
dont pass the charges on in the form of handleing its can get you in deep poo and if you pass them on in high start bids you will lose more.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on September 13, 2000 04:47:13 PM new
You are completely bonkers. Many gas stations in the NE still have one price for cash and another price for credit. I swear dman3 you are always about 2/3 full of crap and this time you are full of it up to your ears.
posted on September 13, 2000 05:45:53 PM new
dman3
I'm with you on that one! Here is a copy of text from one of the on line credit card promoters!
"<5. May I charge the transaction fees to the buyer? >"
"<Credit card regulations state that, as a merchant, you cannot itemize a separate and specific charge for credit card transaction fees. In other words, you cannot specifically state that you will charge more for an item if the buyer chooses to pay by credit card rather than another means. However, it's up to you to decide how much you want to charge for shipping and handling. >"
I sent them an E-mail to see if they can direct me to the law!
zzyzx000
I agree with you about the gas pumps? Maybe why the prices went so high, could be expecting a class action?
posted on September 13, 2000 05:50:31 PM new
While it is true that you can't impose extra charges to accept credit cards, the way gas stations and others do it is perfectly legal...they don't charge extra for credit cards, they GIVE A DISCOUNT FOR CASH! And there is no law against that.
posted on September 13, 2000 05:56:27 PM new
I am not a credit card merchant. How people choose to put money into and take money out of Paypal is none of my business. In fact I never use my Visa card with Paypal and never have, although I have done about 1000 paypal transactions.
That said, it's not just gas stations who have 2 prices. Many merchants still have a cash price lower than the credit card price. They are open and advertise this. I need a few hundred people to tell me they are are breaking the law because I just don't use Dman3 posts as anything more than an amusing look at how to butcher the English language.
posted on September 13, 2000 07:42:45 PM new
I may be bonkers for sure thank you but I am right you can not charge extra fee for use of credit cards!!!!!
And gas stations no longer charge more to use credit card the fedral goverment put a stop to it they many now charge the same price cash or credit up untill 1994 many were giveing cash payers a nickle back on every fill up but this to they got in trouble with the fedral goverment as well I work in a gas station me and my wife both for the last 12 years I may be Bonkers but I know what the law is
here is why your gas prices are so High the gas dealer of mobil pays around .12 to .18 a gallon for his gas they add .05 to .06 to that for full services as profit the rest of the price is state and fedral taxes and the higher the price the dealer is charage for the gas he buys the higher the tax is on it.
if it was just up to a gas dealer who does hunders of thousands of gallons of gas per week would be happy to still charge .30 to .35 cent a gallon but the fact is they have to pay cash up fron on delivery for fuel if the money isnt in an account the refiner can draw the funds from includeing tax up front they get no gas at all.
This mean in there account if they sell 25,000 to 40,000 gallons daily 30,000 being two full deliverys a day to be open 24/7 they have to have $35,000 at all hours day and night in that speacial account.
buy the way they must pay all fedral taxes up front before they sell
I agree you can have any hadleing fee you want in your auctions but buyer are already saying they arent gona stand for much more fees with shipping rates on the move up as it is .
but you all better read paypal service term and ebays service terms closer you can not charge a fee for the credit cards listing fee or FVF.
you might not be a credit card merchant but you do have a merchant account once you pay for paypal services they become a merchant for you you are paying for there BUSINESS service and buyer have all right under there card agreement.
Now if you'll all excuse me I think im off to the bathroom 2/3 full of crap I must be ready to brust here
WWW.dman-n-company.com
[ edited by dman3 on Sep 13, 2000 07:46 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 08:49:57 PM new
dman3, please cut and paste the exact quote from Pay Pal's TOS and the URL to that general page that supports your statements that they prohibit adding extra fees to auction terms to cover the seller for their charges.
I don't dispute that they may add such a requirement into their policies at some point in the near future, but consider this: up until now PP has been busy touting itself as "always free"! I bet they have NOT dared address this issue anywhere. I just read through their TOS, btw, and find no mention of this point in the listing. I agree exactly with z0z00zz or whatever, too, that since PP payments might be funded completely with a check sent to them, or an electronic transfer from a bank, with no credit cards involved at any point, there cannot be an assumption of this *credit card* requirement. PP is NOT a credit card company.... they might choose to add this condition but I don't see it in there yet, and I personally plan to add maybe 35c onto any transaction under $10 that uses PP, now... in *Yahoo* auctions, so don't go quoting eBay policies.... unless I can see that it for certain is prohibited.
Perhaps I've missed it. Please provide the EXACT quote, if I have.. not your idea of what you think you've seen somewhere.
posted on September 14, 2000 06:09:52 AM new
There is no law that you can't charge extra for credit card payments (there used to be one but it was repealed). However the credit card companies have regulations prohibiting the merchants from adding such a charge. On the other hand merchants can offer a discount for cash. The whole issue of what types of payments one should accept has numerous factors involved. Not only are there various direct costs involved (note that even cash payments are not costless--you need security measures to handle cash...), but there are factors like the risk of loss to the merchant, the higher likelihood a customer will buy if his preferred payment option is available, the higher likelihood the transaction will be completed..., the quicker the transaction will be completed...
My conclusion is to offer a wide variety of payment options.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:01:05 AM new
I know if you have a merchant account, you can't charge extra if people use a credit card. You can get into a lot of trouble. I don't know if that applies to Paypal transactions or not. I would be very pissed off if someone charged me extra to use a credit card or Paypal. I would think you would be better off raising your prices a little. Melanie
"If man were to be crossed with a cat, it would greatly improve the man, but deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
posted on September 14, 2000 11:10:27 AM new
Why would it piss you off to pay for services rendered? It would piss you off to have to drive to the 7-ll and pay $1.00 for a money order and $.33 for a stamp and wait a week for it to get to the seller as well.
You don't think sellers are Santa Claus do you? Costs always get passed to the buyer and you suggest this. What's wrong with being up front about it? You don't want to charge the poor working stiff without a CC both the Money order fees, postage and a surcharge for the CC people, do you?
The reverse approach (discount for cash or MO) is just smoke and mirrors. The world has enough hypocracy in it. Let's not volunteer to add to it.
posted on September 14, 2000 12:38:25 PM new
It is illegal in some states to charge extra for CC and it is definitely against the CC rules of probably every company, certainly all the ones I have handled as a merchant. ebay will warn you once if you try it and shut down your auction and they will suspend you if you do it again. But you can offer a discount for cash. On my auctions I used to "I accept paypal, credit card, payplace, checks, money order. Free shipping if paid by check, mo, paypal, payplace otherwise $x shipping". The 'otherwise' was credit card. Now, depending on the price of the item, it may be paypal.
posted on September 14, 2000 04:34:53 PM new
cash,
checks
money orders
cashier checks
now, Yahoo paydirect
PAYpal only as long as it is free to small users. When they start charging for the "value rich services" that I could care less about, I am outta there!
I'm pretty flexible. I might keep a business Paypal account for international trading only. That is a BIG might though!
posted on September 14, 2000 05:17:21 PM new
Now this is getting odd paypal says they will charge you 2% on each transaction how you gona pass this on in higher priceing to custumers all you will be doing is incressing what paypal collects from you sense will sayh weather it a handleing fee your higher start bid you will be paying 2% of the total transaction.
if you sell an item for $12 and buyer pays with paypal 2% is just near .03 cents if you incress that with higher start bid or higher handleing dont paypal share incress to :P
charge $4 shipping and $3 handleing your total received on the sale at paypal is now $19 they get 2% of that you incressed the price but you still dont beat paypals fee all you do is owe them more.
many good merchant accounts charge a flat fee per sale you cant beat the percentages.
thats like haveing to get a personal loan at 21% interest so instead of barrowing the $500 you need you get $800 to cover interest on the $500 sheesh.
Beleave me there is some things that cant be figured in to the costs of doing business and a percentage of sales is one the Idea is to make more but the more you make the high the cost to you will be.
posted on September 14, 2000 07:36:51 PM new
I believe that the legal question of whether you can pass credit card fees along to a customer has to do with the merchant's agreement with the credit card company. If your agreement says you can't pass costs along, you are obviously violating that agreement.
But by accepting Paypal, you are NOT accepting credit cards. You are accepting "Paypal funds." There's a big difference. Just ask Paypal or your credit card company.
Now if Paypal adds to there Terms of Service that costs can not be passed on to customers, then, obviously, this will not be allowed.
But right now, I see nothing in the agreement that you can't do this. I'm sure it's coming, though...
(The sad thing is that I currently offer a discount to anyone who pays with Paypal. That will soon stop.)
posted on September 15, 2000 08:33:13 AM new
dman said, showing very poor math aptitude: "if you sell an item for $12 and buyer pays with paypal 2% is just near .03 cents"
dman, you have really reinforced a conclusion I reached a long time ago: people who can't spell and write English decently shouldn't be paid much attention to since they generally can't COMPREHEND what they read, or analyze it usefully, either. Your writing is like an ink blot test, the only "sense" in it is often what the reader randomly projects onto it. BTW, where's the exact quote that PP presently officially blocks passing charges on to customers? You seem to just want to keep raving on about new sillyness instead of responding to being called down on previous flat-out errors in fact....
10% of $12 is $1.20, easy enough? PP's approx 2% fee is 1/5 of 10%, comprehend? What's 1/5 of $1.20? answer: 24c, not 3c. PP will be charging nearly 50c additional on a $12 sale, an extra 4+%, and a higher percent the lower it goes due to the flat 25c charge PLUS 1.9%. Say you're in a competitive net auction environment and can make a 50% markup on an item that sells for $3, meaning it cost you $2, and the friendly customer insists on PP. You've started at $1 profit and now will have 25c plus (.019)(3.00)= 5c added for a thirty percent loss of your profit due to PP usage.
Given it matters a lot less in a $20 transaction and even less that higher the transaction total. However, sellers of very small ticket items who HAVE been taking PP will need to rethink their strategies if the profit margins are small. Your muddled misinformation does them no favors. I think the need to think clearly about these numbers is more important to Yahoo users, too, since many there LEFT eBay to avoid 25c listing charges on smaller-ticket listings.
I won't try to QUOTE any of the garbled "analysis" that you use to try to say you can't beat the percents charged, or whatever you're very incorrectly claiming. Easy example: Suppose seller states, 50c extra charge added for sales of $10 or below, waived if check, MO, or cash used. OK, if it's $10 exactly and no surcharge, PP charges 25c plus (.019)($10.)= 19c, total 44c. Now with the surcharge, the customer pays $10.50 and PP charges 25c plus (.019)($10.50)= 20c for a total of 45c. What part of fifty cents is more than 44c OR 45c is unclear?
posted on September 15, 2000 09:14:07 AM new
I'm still watching the message threads here and the message threads on the ebay threads regarding PayPal with deeply concerned interest.
I haven't decided what to do yet, but if I had to make the decision today, my decision would be to cancel my Paypal completely.
This decision is based on the bait and switch lie that they suckered us into. I've lost my trust in their honesty. My final decision will be based on what Paypal does to rectify or not rectify the deceit they have attempted to pull on us.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:39:13 AM new
Paypal is a good deal for the buyer. I will pass the charges on to the buyer and if Paypal objects, then maybe I'll quit them.
What I object to is the smoke and mirrors of having to offer a "discount for cash." It's not a discount for cash. It's a fee passed on to the buyer for services rendered.
If I ever make it to the Pearly Gates and am offered reincarnation as a human, I will pass. If asked why, my response will be: "The hypocracy."
posted on September 15, 2000 09:41:34 AM new
>>If I ever make it to the Pearly Gates and am offered reincarnation as a human, I will pass. If asked why, my response will be: "The hypocracy"<<
Would you change your mind if they offered you $5?
posted on September 15, 2000 10:15:52 AM new
I've done well on those Paypal handouts. I might come back for 100 shares of Paypal stock, if they ever go public. They gave away over $40 million to get 3.5 million customers. I think they figured out what I did: that their service is worth a lot, especially to the buyer. I hope they also figured out I'm not going to pay for the buyer's free lunch.
My solution is to charge $.25 plus 2% to Paypal customers. It's easy to compute and adjusts somewhat for the fact if I charge exactly what Paypal charges me: $.25 plus 1.9%, then I actually lose a few pennies because Paypal takes their 1.9% also of the money I figure to be the Paypal charges.
posted on September 15, 2000 03:26:00 PM new
Thanks a trillion for that link. It opened my eyes about what a mistake I made upgrading to a business account on Paypal.
I did answer the questions honestly from a screen that wouldn't let me proceed until I answered it which led me to believe I had to upgrade.
After reading the posts on the link you provided, I called Paypal and told them my concerns and asked them just what their policy was about upgrading. He answered, "We don't have a policy." and I immediately told him that was enough for me. I told him I wanted my free status back until they did formulate a policy, and he didn't object to that and reinstated my free status.
posted on September 15, 2000 05:11:43 PM new
Until PayPal makes up their mind how they intend to do business. I have drawn my account down to zero status. I don't care for all of the misrepresentations and conflicting statements they are giving out. None of them seem to be confering with each other as to what their actual policy will be, now, or in the future?
It's hard to believe such an organization, or lack of same, can make so many blunders, and create for themselves so many PR nightmares. When you feel the heads of such a firm have no real plan to follow, leaving sums of money for them to control is rather unnerving. It's a shame they started off so good, and had such a hold on their market niche. Only to let their disorganization, and blunderous backsteps, bring this uncertainty in their ability to operate effectively.
posted on September 15, 2000 05:48:32 PM new
I do know that 2% of $12 is $1.20 Just pointing out how the more your buyer charges the higher your fee be it .03 what ever.
I also comprehend very well I was giving an example and I am right, passing on the paypal fees will only increases what paypal takes the high the amount of the transaction the more they take.
The only way to pass on this fee and not pay more is to collect the extra fee in a check.
So you pass on the $1.20 to your buyer paypal collects .2 cents more from you. If you add even a .47 service-handling fee they will collect 1 cent more you really are passing nothing on just look very cheap and petty.
By the way I can talk, write, comprehend and do math as well as the best of them. The bad mouthing of others in some of these threads here lately shows more about ignorance here then some miss spelled words or missing word from a person who’s days are 17 hours long.
By the way if you all search the ebay message board back a ways someone post the laws about charging fees to use credit cards it wasn’t from paypal site but from the federal law and not state or local laws.
Here is what I can find in the paypal terms of service
Fees. X.com's current Fee Schedule for using the Premier/Business Service is posted on the website. Unless otherwise stated, all fees quoted are in U.S. dollars. Users are responsible for paying all fees associated with the use of their Premier or Business Accounts and the Premier/Business Service.
User is responsible for paying all fees, which says to me buyer is not responsible for paying that since they are not the holders of your Premier/Business Service.
Also I found that paypals terms of use fit California laws what is the law on this charging for credit card use in that state.
Also there is no bate and switch here if you are not a business you do not need to sign up for this Premier/Business Service. And your account remains free to use. In fact if you don’t have the license
to sell your goods or services you would be lying to get the account. Many towns and cities require you to have a license for your business and also many states require auctioneers to be licensed. These are auctions and you are an auctioneer on yahoo ebay or where ever this is not the local classifieds of your new paper or a garage sale.
And yes the people from paypal have stated they are just letting all know their policy they are not forcing anyone to up grade to a business account.
posted on September 15, 2000 07:34:22 PM new
This is NOT the ebay threads. Can we get along here please? Regardless of how anyone spells, as long as the point of their post gets through, who cares?
