posted on October 27, 2000 07:53:06 AM new
I am in the process of signing up for PayDirect. Not only because PayPal is just to unreliable, with all of their changes, but I want to support Yahoo! auctions, as it is my home base site.
I carefully read all of the small print in any agreement I make, with any institution. And there are some very contradictory statements in PayDirects agreement. I will paste the contradictions below, (these are picked out of much larger paragraphs):
9. Limits on Disputes.
You may not dispute or charge back a transaction used to fund your PayDirect Account on the basis of any dispute you have with a Recipient over the amount owed, the quantity, quality and safety of goods or services purchased, whether or not goods or services have been shipped, received or performed, or any other aspect of your relationship with a Recipient.
12. Receiving a Payment.
If a Sender makes a claim that a Payment credited to a Recipient's PayDirect Account was unauthorized or charges back, rejects or otherwise disputes a funding transaction, the proceeds of which were used to fund a Payment, the Bank may debit the Payment from the Recipient's PayDirect Account and/or hold the funds pending resolution of the claim.
This is very confusing. In # 9, you are not allowed to make chargebacks. In # 12 it talks about debiting your account on chargeback claims? And, holding said funds from you until resolution?
In the Sellers Zone there is a member who had three chargebacks, and his/her right to claim funds from buyers was even frozen? He/she stated these chargebacks were for sales over a month old? Surely persons buying items would know way before then if they hadn't received their items? How far back will they go with these "chargebacks"?
Has anyone experienced such problems? I don't like contradictory statements. And we all know, if there is a way for someone to attempt to get something for free, they will do it. The web is fast becoming a way for undesireables to rip people off, one way or the other. What protection does a seller have, other than insuring items and/or delivery confirmation?
[ edited by CharlieOne on Oct 27, 2000 07:54 AM ]
posted on October 27, 2000 09:15:27 AM new
Hey ho CharlieOne,
#9 means that you cannot dispute it if you paid with funds that are already in your Paydirect account. Say if someone sends you $200 and you take that money and send it to pay for something, If You don't receive the item you can't dispute it.
#12 refers to using a credit card to send payment. It doesn't matter if you have proof of delivery with all of the appropriate tracking numbers, if there is a chargeback in this manner, Paydirect WILL take the disputed charge from whatever account you deposited into or whatever credit card is on file. This happened to me just recently. They contacted me asking for proof of delivery and I gave it to them. A week later, I find that they charged my card for the amount that was in dispute so the person basically got the item for free. I can't get any help through them and have been hung up on 3 times.
posted on October 27, 2000 10:35:18 AM new
I read it a bit differently than strike does. The way I read it, #9 says that you cannot chargeback a transaction due to a problem with the seller or the merchandise received, such as never received merchandise, merchandise not as advertised, etc. #12 is allowing for chargebacks based on unauthorized use of credit card, fraudulent transactions, duplicate payments(?), etc.....basically anything that does not have anything to do with the seller or the merchandise.
posted on October 27, 2000 11:19:11 AM new
Strike,
Hey Strike, glad to hear from you. That's what I was afraid of happening. I don't like that loophole, we both know some will use it to get the item free, and we are left holding the bag. Thanks for your response Strike, always a pleasure hearing from you.
auctionee,
I read all of responses on this board too. I have a lot of respect for your opinions also. Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your feedback on this. Guess I'll give it a try. If it happens to me, as it did to Strike, and the rest. I'll look for another Pay--- site. Either that, or eventually go back to money orders, etc. This Pay--- is getting to be more of a problem than it's worth, seems to me.
posted on October 28, 2000 06:09:23 AM new
Here a theoretical senerio:
Friend A lets Friend B use his credit card to pay through Paydirect for an auction. The seller ships the merchandise. Friend A then calls Yahoo after the item has been received to say that his card was used without his authorization. Paydirect then debits the seller's account to put the funds back to Friend A's card. Freind B now has his free merchandise. There is no "SELLER" protection with Paydirect. I'm thinking of taking my chances again with bad checks. Believe me, there is NOTHING that you can say to stop them from taking the money out of your account, EVEN if you have a UPS tracking number.
posted on October 28, 2000 07:11:35 AM new
Well, at the moment I'll keep it till I encounter such a problem, I don't foresee it as, of my 3rd party charging customers only 1% use PayDirect, 99% use PayPal and I have NEVER had a problem with PayPal.
Of the problems I have had with 3rd party chargers, 99.9% have been through PayDirect, either the buyer didn't wait to get shipping charges, and just paid the item cost, and had to go back and do the shipping seperate, OR the time I found my e-mail address had been changed IN THE SECURE AREA to someone elses e-mail address.
posted on October 28, 2000 12:30:54 PM new
I like PayPal too. Just wish they would be more open about pending changes far in advance. And I don't like being forced into a business account. I feel maybe they should require a minimum balance, like banks. For those of us that barely fit into the business category, by their current rules, it doesn't seem right.
posted on October 28, 2000 03:49:53 PM new
Well, I see a lot of paypal fans in here. Let me narrate a quick story that happened to one of my friends (as a seller) recently. He sells electronic/computer stuff (> $200). He had a buyer who actually used a stolen CC with paypal. When paypal found it out. They just deducted the payment from my friend's account... and just sent a small, cordial email to him.
Now that I am realizing that none of these payment services are safe... I am going back to my roots... the good old money orders.
I may follow you eventually. All of these 'Pay' sites had a good thing going. But they are getting greedy, and more trouble than they are worth, (as I said above). If I knew bidders would go back to money orders, and other payments, I would switch back to the old way in a heartbeat.
The problem now is, that buyers have gotten lazy too, and will resist anything that takes even the smallest amount of their time. After all, the sellers are more at risk than they are.
Thanks to all of you who responded to this thread. I appreciate your input, and your time.
posted on October 28, 2000 04:52:36 PM new
I'm wondering about protecting myself against chargebacks. Here's what I'm thinking, and I'd like for folks to pick this apart and tell me the flaws.
A PayPal/PayDirect "dump" checking account, i.e. the account where PP/PD elec transfers the money. Totally seperate from any other account I have. I get free checking w/no min. balance, so anytime the balance is over $10 in this account, I write myself a check or transfer the $$ to my other account. I think this protects me against PP or PD taking funds out of that account.
Chargebacks on the cc PP/PD have on file. Can't a seller protect themselves the same way buyers do? That is, I look at my cc statement, and see a chargeback for an item I've shipped. This has to appear as a charge I imagine. So I write my cc company to dispute it the way I would any other charge, i.e. showing them PP's or PD's rules, my DC or INS form from the PO which proves I sent it. Shouldn't that cover me?
Thanks in advance for any poking of holes in this - I WANT to know the flaws in my logic here.
posted on October 29, 2000 05:33:55 PM new
Sadie- having a low amount of money in the account doesn't protect you. What will happen is that the money would still be taken out, causing your account balance to go negative. Then you would get a letter from the bank stating that you had to cover the difference right away. If you didn't cover the difference within 30 days the bank would then report you to check systems, which is what basically happens to people who write bad checks. That would be a real mess. Once you are on check systems' black list you can't open new bank accounts and no stores will accept checks from you. Better to just pay the money, or better yet, to not have that happen to you in the first place.
posted on October 29, 2000 09:53:28 PM new
Pardon all caps but here is what I am now posting on my auctions---
PLEASE NOTE:
THOSE WHO CANNOT BID WHO CHOSE NOT TO REGISTER CREDIT CARD INFO, PLEASE CONTACT
(MY EMAIL) IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PURCHASING 1ST BID ITEMS OR UNMET RESERVE ITEMS. THANK YOU!!
AT PRESENT, NOT ACCEPTING CREDIT CARDS -DUE TO INCESSANT CONFUSING CHANGES/SOFTWARE PROBLEMS. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, WILL
RESUME, WHEN THESE SERVICES BECOME MORE DEPENDABLE. SORRY FOR ANY
INCONVENIENCE AND HAVE FUN BIDDING!!
I ALSO STATE "MONEY ORDER PREFERRED"
CC Services -have become too invasive and can just go pound sand!! (not on auctions)
You just may be doing the best thing. Using Postal money order can almost guarantee you a refund if an item did not arrive within a certain amount of time.
The problem with PayPal is that it became popular too fast. Now that all the big problems are popping up, they're changing their policies left and right for THEIR sake and not ours.
posted on October 31, 2000 07:48:14 AM new
When Yahoo started Paydirect, I was very hesitant to sign up. After all, Yahoo is famous as the site with no human beings behind it. For every problem reported, there is a canned reply that doesnt match the topic. But others here were saying how great it was and the TOS seemed to indicate that there could be no charge backs. I just discovered on the SZ that not only are there charge backs, Yahoo doesnt even notify the seller first. If a customer charges something back, Yahoo just takes it out of the seller's account, no questions asked. So it doesnt help to get delivery confirmation. You won't even be given a chance to prove it. One seller already has three charge backs and he suspects that the first buyer just told his friends how easy it was and they decided to join in the "fun." Just wait until the scammers' "viral marketing" campaign spreads and 1 out of 3 folks pay with paydirect and then charge it back. Well, at least it should cut back on deadbeats. Why deadbeat an auction when you can get the item free?
Paydirect's new slogan, "it's fast, easy and free because you dont have to pay for anything."
Why did Yahoo even start Paydirect? Was there really a need for yet another lousy service that sellers will soon stop accepting? They should have just bought an interest in Payfoe. http://www.ygoodman.com [email protected]
posted on November 2, 2000 10:40:21 PM new
yisgood- I was of course very alarmed to read your post. I usually don't bother with the seller zone as I find the setup so hard to navigate & follow, but after reading what you wrote I did go have a look. Problem is, I'm SO SZ deficient & couldn't find anywhere the discussion you're referring to! Is there any way for you to post a link, or if not, at least point me in the general direction- dates of posts or titles of messages- because I'd really like to read what happened to these people!
posted on November 3, 2000 06:08:34 AM new
I found it difficult to find the specific post I referred to in SZ. There are several threads on Paydirect scattered among all the other threads (and sometimes in middle of a Paypal thread). I did find msg 12258, where sellers are trying to figure out how Paydirect can say "no charge backs" in one place and then discuss charge back rules in another.
But right at the top of this thread, a seller mentions how Paydirect charged back despite having proof of delivery. We all know that Yahoo is famous for no customer service and canned replies that dont match the subject. You might want to email them for an answer, but dont expect it to match the question.
Until Yahoo starts treating auctions like serious business instead of some game that doesnt require a human being to actually get involved, I would hesitate to trust them with my money.
posted on November 4, 2000 07:11:03 AM new
What is stopping any of us from filing fraud charges against a buyer who pulls one of these scams ? If you have mailed the item and used DC, I would think it would have some merit.
Plus, is anyone listing the user ids on Yahoo of the individuals pulling this scam ?
I know they can change IDs, but at least we can make them work harder at ripping us off.
posted on November 5, 2000 07:26:34 PM new
Well, the more I read the horror stories of stolen CC the #9 and #12 nonsense AND further on in the agreement the allowance of data seekers (Yahoo I guess) to use our cookies on the site - to ahem,,, better service our needs in merchandizing - track everything we do, say, and view---- why in Sam Hill is there such complacency about these issues??
Someone said it right here---good old money orders, checks....However, if we hold fast to that policy--- then for sure, you guessed it- FEES for auction listings.
Well, I would rather pay them directly for their services, than all this tango dancing in the dark......trying to get our "float money"
