posted on October 29, 2000 09:39:18 PM new
I don't get it- my sales were great until features came along... all I hear on this board is how GREAT everyone is selling. I'm a long term Yahoo seller and believe me - I was selling much more than I did on ebay. NOW, however is a different story -- Hits are atrocious, 1st bid wins -- is just OK, I was using Paypal - didn't make much difference - so dropped them. For now, not taking CC's until Paydirect gets their act together.
I'm beginning to think - that only the few who are doing great bother to use these boards. There are thousands of sellers and I check their listings--- some have 6,7 pages with only 1 or 2 bids on ANYTHING!
I've hung in as long as possible --- but ebay may have to be my bail-out for this month. Can't figure what Yahoo has done but seems to be the CC registration thing. My sales took a nose dive since the day they announced it!!
How many strong sales listers are exclusively using FEATURES??? If that's the case, we need to start thinking of Yahoo as a fee-based listing service if Features is the only way to be found on search these days....... May have to split my auctions or say "toodle-oo to Yahoo"
posted on October 30, 2000 01:17:34 AM new
Most posters do not specify what they sell which leads to a lot of meaningless comments.
I sell sports cards and all of my auctions are "First bid wins". I didn't notice any improvement with featured auctions, but I sell everything at a fixed price.
More than half of my buyers pay me with PayPal, so safe to assume it would hurt my sales if I dropped PayPal.
I quit listing on eBay a little over a year ago because sales were slow and the fees were too high for my declining profits. I check the completed auctions on eBay everyday. Prices are worse than when I left. Too many sellers trying to liquidate everything in 3 to 7 days. Too much work for the money. I'll stick with Yahoo.
posted on October 30, 2000 08:19:42 AM new
I, too, sell first bid wins for the most part so if you looked at my listings, I wouldn't have any bids, but I sell a lot!
The only thing that I miss is the occasional sleeper item that I think will sell for $5.00 and it goes over $100! What a rush!
Of course, no fees and a credit card that is untouched is lovely as well.
I don't usually feature, but I have featured a couple of items using my credits received when I transfered my feedback credits from Ebay. I do like the fact that if you feature in one category, you are featured everytime that someone searches for a keyword that brings up your auction.
posted on October 30, 2000 09:57:00 AM new
I have found when I feature items, I get more page views but the items don't sell. Sales had picked up a little bit for me, but it's pretty quiet again. I wish Yahoo would change the order back. I think that is the biggest problem right now. I wrote them and got some canned answer. Melanie
"If man were to be crossed with a cat, it would greatly improve the man, but deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
posted on October 30, 2000 10:04:15 AM new
I wrote them twice begging them to change the order back. The first time I got a canned answer. The second time, I got no answer at all.
posted on October 30, 2000 12:23:56 PM new
The scrambled order might benefit a small minority of sellers but the majority of auctions are buried now without moving to the first page when browsing or using the search. Hard to understand why Yahoo would do this with the negative effect it is having on the majority of sellers. Maybe its designed to encourage sellers to use the featured auctions.
I like the CC Verification. I'm sure sellers are losing some sales but it has also eliminated a lot of nonpaying bidders who have nothing better to do than jerk around with auctions. So I think its worth the trade off.
posted on October 30, 2000 02:11:38 PM new
Last night was the first time I ever featured an auction. I was amazed. I sold the most expensive stuff and literally had 2 more bids as soon as I featured and moved to the front of the class. Now, because I am a small seller, all my auctions are featured.
It's a heck of a lot cheaper than selling somewhere where it may take 24 hrs just to get a title search. Do not even get me started about that. So I posted more and more auctions today. Every one is featured.
I hope it isn't just a stroke of good luck.
posted on October 30, 2000 04:07:17 PM new
Sales are definately Down at yahoo, I have featured I have many frist bid win items things just keep resubmiting with no winners
waisted $10 on features that never sold views never even picked up on my features.
as of mid july I split my sales I list on ebay and im selling nearly everyday there I have had two $1 wins on yahoo in four months.
They have scrambled the listing so all low feed back auctions never make the top of the list and never get seen new sellers dont stand a chance and even in my case of haveing sold over a year there still have just low feed back cant get my sales on top then if that isnt bad enough they ran half the buyer off with CC registration.
posted on October 30, 2000 06:24:05 PM new
Well guess ol bitty has to get her opinion in too.
I found when CC verification came in, yes sales dropped, BUT DeadBeats went to ZERO for me. So it was well worth it...
I do think the scrambled listings is messing up things a lot,but also featured is not helping the regular, lister either...
I list in one spot that has a good 10,000 at any given time listed and gee it's under OTHER...So I have learned to put a LOT of description in, for searching, and say heck relax, no stress, not like it was at EPAY....
I don't worry about it, I list 100's of items, with the relist so easy, and what goes around comes around.
Sales aren't as good as they were, but heck they aren't costing me any thing to do it either...
I also quickly discovered that diversify is the thing. Sell everything but the kithen sink and somebody will want it.
Featured I use on one item to attract.....people to look at all my items..
This has worked well. And ONE bid wins does work, not always but does...
Hang in there,everybody.
Ol bitties opinion !
posted on October 30, 2000 06:43:27 PM new
I checked out the feedback for sportscards sellers who have their listings at the top of the list. They have 1200+ feedback because they list thousand of cards invidually at 25 cents to 50 cents. I receive one feedback for every $20 sale I make. They receive forty to fifty feedbacks for every $20 worth of singles they sell. So 25 cent auctions is the way to go with Yahoo's new listing order.
posted on October 30, 2000 09:15:29 PM new
OK -- the picture is unfuzzing now....it appears that Yahoo is messing with us big time. I have an incredibly rare item listed for the past few days and ONLY 5 HITS!! It SHOULD have brought out the big gun bidders/lookers!
There is only one other like it on ebay (almost as rare) and even with all their problems, it has TONS of hits and getting bids.
I do not feel comfortable with an auction site that manipulates its sellers auctions by playing "roulette" of searchability. This is clearly an obvious demeanor of "preferential treatment" for those who pay the fee-ture price.
If the feature wasn't mathematically upside down, I would pay it----but the "ranking order" doesn't work. We'll still be on the bottom of search....
All this has a "Mafia" mentality to it.....pay up - or (you know the rest)
Ebay is at least UPFRONT with its moronic and greedy attitude. YAHOO - hides behind the word FREE while subliminally adding "fees". Elsewise, why would those with high f/back which they brought from ebay be doing so well??? Actually--- this was another underhanded marketing ploy of "stick-em-up-ebay" by Yahoo . High f/b sellers couldn't wait to hand over their f/back to Yahoo-- and it was sooo slick, JUST what they wanted...all that data and Ebay's TOP sellers, to boot !! Paydirect could get nice and FAT off of them...
THAT is why we sellers, who don't feature - or use CC's that screw up every day, OR with medium to low f/back are being run out of Dodge..........
It's their back yard if we want to play, I guess!
posted on October 31, 2000 02:32:32 AM new
ioughta,
I honestly DON'T think your post is a description of Yahoo's INTENTION with the new listing order. I think they're attempting to REWARD sellers who:
1) sell their listings quickly (because the desirability and price are right), and
2) do everything right in pleasing their customers, as indicated by positive feedback.
I think that's why the category listing rank is determined by a combination of feedback number AND sell-through rate. There are some sellers with only a handful of feedback whose auctions are at the TOP of unfeatured category lists. The only way they could be there is if THEY'RE SELLING ALMOST EVERYTHING THEY LIST, the FIRST time. Other sellers with high feedback are also at the top because their feedback numbers compensate for lower sell-through.
I've been selling on Yahoo for over a year, and I never knew they were letting sellers TRANSFER ebay feedback ratings to Yahoo. Was this done at some point in the past? It certainly isn't done NOW. Ebay feedback may be credited for Yahoo Wallet dollars (to pay for featuring), but the ebay seller starting on Yahoo begins with the same (0) Yahoo rating everyone else gets.
As far as PayDirect goes, I don't understand what you're talking about. How is PayDirect going to get "nice and FAT" off ebay's top sellers who sell on Yahoo??? I personally appreciate having a FREE credit card payment service, especially since PayPal started charging sellers.
If your rare item isn't selling on Yahoo, then pay the fees and sell it on ebay like your competition is doing. Yahoo doesn't get ebay's traffic and they don't PROMISE traffic or bids like you expect on ebay. It's unfortunate, but it comes with being "free", and it's a choice we all have to make.
That said, I don't like Yahoo's new listing order any more than the rest of you do. I think it's hurting EVERYONE'S sales on the auction, including those who pay to feature, because it is DISORDERLY and brings a feeling of CHAOS to the site, thereby discouraging buyers from browsing and looking for potential purchases. Not to mention TOTALLY KILLING last-minute IMPULSE BUYS.
Spreland pointed out one of the problems with the listing order. The seller of very high numbers of low-priced items is rewarded with a high sell-through rate and high feedback, which in turn gives his auctions high listing placement....which gives his auctions the most exposure, increasing his sales and feedback that much more. It's a vicious circle, but a GOOD one to be in.
The seller with more valuable items (though reasonably priced) will have much lower feedback because he sells fewer items, and his sell-through rate will be lower....so his auctions will be stuck way down the list....which decreases his sales further. THIS vicious circle can only be overcome with featuring (IF it increases sales), or "giveaway" prices (which STILL has to be seen to sell), or being found through buyers' keyword search results.
A new seller can list a few featured items, get a few feedback and high sell-through rate, and make it to the top of the list. A long-time seller can make it to the top with his high feedback rating.
But anyone else, with medium feedback and medium sell-through rate, can't increase his feedback numbers OR his sell-through rate substantially without FEATURING. And if he doesn't have ebay or Amazon feedback to transfer for Wallet credits, featuring fees come out of his pocket.
THAT'S why the new listing order is UNFAIR to the vast majority of sellers. Time-ending order lets EVERY auction make it to the top of the list before closing, so they ALL have a good chance to sell.
What happens when everyone starts featuring just to get their auctions seen? Featured lists several pages long DEFEAT THE PURPOSE of featuring.
I wish Yahoo would reconsider their decision but, at this point, it looks like we're stuck with it. Just in time for Christmas non-sales.
posted on October 31, 2000 08:14:12 AM new
ioughta & granee-
Maybe I have lost it here, but what has feedback got to do with the peaking order of the featured auctions...
When I feature, I don't do it when I'm listing I wait til I have listed it, then go to the item then hit the feature button.
At that point Yahoo shows the DOLLARS people have their items featured at. I can go for 10 cents and be at the bottom, or maybe spend the 2.11 (example) and get to the top of the chain for first showing...
And of course if there are only 5 items in that section featured, why waste my bucks...
My feedback has NOTHING as far as I can see to do with where the item is listed in the auctions.
And as far as High Feedback from Ebay to Yahoo, all Yahoo offered me was to give me DOLLARS to use in the form of featuring on their site. They didn't TAKE MY SELLERS< they used the numbers I showed on EBAY...
Can you please clarify how you think the RANKING order on Featured or any auctions has anything to do with your FEEDBACK....
posted on October 31, 2000 08:39:43 AM newjustjoan The ranking has to do with some combination of the following:
Sell through (items listed to items sold) Higher sell through equals higher in the listing
Feedback Positive feedback=higher in the listings as well as extra listings available over the 1,000 base listings. Negative=lower in the listings and fewer listings available from your 1,000 base listing number.
Featuring is supposed to not take away from your 1,000 base listing number...
If anyone can figure out the method by which Yahoo figures sell through + feedback + (there is another item that figures into the equation, but old age just kicked in and I can't remember ) let us know!
posted on October 31, 2000 09:15:39 AM new
Labbie1
I'm now completely confused.
When they put thru that 1000 thing per month, I understood it to be, that you could list that many items per month and your total number of items you could list would go up or down according to sales...
I saw nothing that said it would tell me where on the listings would the items go...
Where did you find this info you put in your message.
I'm totally totally confused on this whole thing now.
posted on October 31, 2000 09:57:05 AM new
Hi Joan--
WHERE IS VM WHEN YOU NEED HER!?????!
Okay at this URL you will find the following:
"You can increase the auctions submission counter by increasing
your performance score. This score considers both your
sell-through and your Yahoo! Auctions rating, so the more
items you sell while maintaining a positive rating, the more
auctions you'll be able to list.
Every time your sell-through and your rating changes, the
number of auctions you can submit is recalculated, so it is
in your best interest to increase your sell-through and rating."
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/auct/asell/asell-35.html
Also check out this AW thread which discusses this matter:
She probably got it from me. After MANY e-mails to Yahoo begging them to tell me what the default listing order was, they finally responded with an answer to my question and I posted it on another thread here. Here it is again:
Hello,
Thank you for your email.
Auctions are sorted based upon a formula effected by the sellers
rating,
sell-through rate, and the number of bids on the auction. As these
three factors are improved, the auction placement will improve.
posted on October 31, 2000 12:54:57 PM new
That's a pretty crumby answer but since I featured all my auctions things have never been better.
It doesn't cost that much. It begins at .10 and unless I am mistaken, that's less than other sites. But it is kind of unfair that your feedback in the pecking order makes you pay. Or not get seen. I have found it is well worth the cents per day though. I'd recommend some of you try it.
posted on October 31, 2000 01:01:03 PM new
granee--Thanks for your comments! Glad to hash this around a bit with you.. since you clearly are a seasoned auctioneer.
To tell the truth, all this "formula" stuff is driving me nuts anyway... as for Paydirect getting FAT--remember, if Yahoo seduces high ranking sellers to its auctions - along with High f/back, they bring a ton of bidders with them AND-- guess what? They cannot bid without registering a CC -- and Yahoo is just waiting..to sign them up on Paydirect. Remember, by being a Free Auction House, they must make money somehow, right?? That's fine! However, penalizing low f/back or new listers will do nothing but alienate this site.
As a former Mktg person in the high tech arena-- I see things much differently than most folks . All, and I mean all, maneuvers of such a high profile company like Yahoo are dedicated to increasing profit. Fairness sadly has nothing to do with anything.
In other words- a new, small f/back or infrequent seller - no matter how great or rare the item is- will NOT be included in the "white knuckle" race for bids here on Yahoo.
They are implementing the 'creme de la creme' theory here- and have literally squashed anyone who doesn't cut it for the top of the search list. They pretty much don't care if we go back to Ebay~
You said you didn't know about the ebay f/back campaign ??? --It's been all over these boards - and should have been an individual decision whether to plunk their f/back here on Yahoo. I ask you, once their ebay f/back has been surpassed by other higher sellers - seems to me, they will be right back where they started - at the bottom of the list! Yahoo - then anticipates that out of habit or fear of being left behind, ALL listers will use the .25 features THUS, becoming a fee-based auction site.
Yahoo - sorry, but your M.O. is showing~
So, what's new???
posted on October 31, 2000 04:11:00 PM new
all I know about yahoo right now is after selling there for over a year now my bids and veiws are down down down since the changes I was doing sale after sale last year now my only bids in the last 5 months were 2 in 4 months both for a single $1.
to go from nearly $1000 this time last year to Just $2 is a big drop ill toss quarter at ebay for the veiws and bids im getting there right now all day and night.
if they dont care they are loseing there older auction users and that new user are comeing and leaveing cause they arent sucessfull then good for them I guess.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on October 31, 2000 06:29:40 PM new
auctionee & labbie1-
Thanks for the info,I am still in shock over the whole thing. Duh leading a sheltered life.
I knew my sales were down, but was figuring it was CC and featured. Had no idea this other was the real cause of it. Need to get out more I guess.
Well it's still not a problem, I find I just feature in catagories one item, here and there with like items, to bring attention to this ol bat and it does work.
But what I really find with Yahoo, is that I get so much REPEAT BUSINESS...and most of my customers put me on their ALERTS and the moment I list they know it...
I still say YAHOOOOOOOO .....
posted on October 31, 2000 10:29:52 PM new
Dman--- looks like you and I are in the same boat? Your sales decrease is phenomenal!! What else is needed to know thay Yahoo has not just shot themselves in the foot, but ours too....
Conflicting posts here of HUGE successes just don't make any sense....I dart shoot many of the auctions and NOBODY is doing well at all. I checked featured items ending today -- ZERO BIDS. Why all the Yahoo banners waving here? I don't get it.
Since it's hopeless otherwise, to prove I'm not imagining things -- decided to jump the Yahoo hoops -- got a Yahoo wallet - I transferred my f/back- and see NO credits anywhere! All I know is they are happily telling me they will withdraw $$ from my bank only once a month--for featured items. How sweet!
The whole idea of my working on a performance schedule to prove my worthiness as a seller is close to humiliation, far as I'm concerned. Yahoo is far surpassing ebay's VENDOR ONLY interferance of my sales. Now I have to cough up the dough, to get a "good report card"!!
I'm not the cussin' type but this is the MOST B.S. I've encountered in many many years. Especially from a site which cannot boast HIGH SALES volume.
I'm so happy for the few happy ones--- but 'fraid you don't have much company.
posted on October 31, 2000 11:51:46 PM new"Auctions are sorted based upon a formula effected by the seller's rating, sell-through rate, and the number of bids on the auction. As these three factors are improved, the auction placement will improve."
OK, I left out the THIRD component in the "pecking order" formula, the number of bids on the auction. So if you can manage to get a few BIDS on your auction listing, it gets moved to the top of the unfeatured list (and probably to the "hot" section as well), where it will be seen and hopefully attract more bids.
The only problem is getting those first bids. Obviously, a "first bid wins" strategy won't work here, since the auction disappears as soon as the first bid is placed.
A 99 cent opening might get the bidding going, but Yahoo buyers HATE reserves (I really think ALL online auction buyers do, as well), and most people won't bother to bid AT ALL if the auction has a reserve. But opening low without a reserve on Yahoo is *too risky* for most sellers, since they're liable to lose their shirts.
That leaves sellers bidding on their own items or having their friends bid on their items, in order to get the auctions moved up the list....which is, of course, against Yahoo's rules and might get you kicked off the auction.
We're right back where we started---feedback and sell-through rate. Sigh.
ioughta, some sellers are doing very well because they have established repeat buyers in "niche" areas, or they sell "first bid wins" items at bargain prices, or they sell very unique items in a strong market, or they sell things people *need* to buy for less than can be found elsewhere (like children's clothes or electronics), etc., etc. There's also a degree of luck involved, so it's difficult to say why some are selling and some aren't (also true in the brick-and-mortar world).
You can't judge everything by the number of bids you see on open auctions, since "first bid wins" auctions close immediately, and "buy price" auctions can, too. The only way you can REALLY tell how well a seller is doing is to look at his total number of listings, then at his CLOSED auctions, and see how many he's sold in relation to the number he's offering for sale. The NUMBER of bids doesn't really matter, since any one bid (at reserve, buy price, or opening) can be very high. Of course, the DOLLAR AMOUNTS are important, too, but you have no way of knowing how much of it is profit.
Money is tight now and many online auction buyers are disillusioned after making disappointing purchases, so sellers have to really WORK for the sales they make. I think a seller's feedback is being scrutinized more now than ever (I've even had new buyers comment on my negs), and many buyers are reluctant to trust unproven sellers.
Personally, I'm not featuring, and some of my auctions have had VERY high hits this week (a product of keyword search, I'm sure, since those auctions have so-so listing placement). My sales haven't reflected the number of hits, still being lackluster, so I think people are hanging on to their money (if they have any to hang onto). Number of hits doesn't really matter to me, since I often sell with less than 5, but 100+ hits with little or no bidding indicates a problem---either with my listing price or with people's pocketbooks (any lower and I wouldn't make enough profit to bother with it).
Remember, sellers are coming to Yahoo from ebay in droves, and it's not without reason. If I had your "incredibly rare item" to sell (and didn't need the money immediately), I'd watch the price it brings over on ebay, open at that price with a high "buy price" you don't expect to get (no reserve), and wait for the right buyer(s) to find it and decide they have to have it.
Or you can list it on ebay and watch the site go down an hour before your auction closes.
posted on November 1, 2000 12:14:01 AM new
ioughta,
I forgot to say that you should get a confirmation email from Yahoo in a few days about your feedback credit request. If you don't get it (and your credits don't show up) write: [email protected] and ask them to look into it.
That did the trick for me (and it also put me back on the list for receiving "auction closed" and "your auction has a winner" emails, which stopped coming a few months ago).
posted on November 1, 2000 01:06:31 AM new
Prior to all the changes, I used to list all my stuff in 2-day auctions (very visible), & all "1st bid wins". I used to sell quite a bit of my stuff within 24 hours. Not everything, but quite a bit.
When all the changes hit, I couldn't sell anything to save my life, and I went back to selling lots of stuff on Ebay as well.
After I got my feature credits and began featuring everything I listed, I went back to having roughly the same success rate I had before the changes were implemented.
I make a modest profit on each item I sell. I sell low-priced items, and after my feature credits run out I will not be able to afford to feature every single thing I sell. I make most of my profit by buying a boxlot of (for example) books/barbies/my little ponies/etc for $20 and selling each of the items in the lot for $5-$20. Nowadays I'm listing 10 day auctions with no automatic relist, and my sell through percent and my feedback are both average. For now I'm counting on the featuring for my auctions to even be seen. But when my feature credits run out I don't think I'll find it realistic to pay even 10 cents per day on a 10-day auction to feature a $5-$10 item.
My items are fairly priced; I offer a guarantee; I sell internationally; I have under 100 feedback, but 100% of it is glowing- and EXCELLENT- not a "good", "average", or "bad" in the bunch. None of this helps me if my items STILL can't be seen.
One of 2 things will happen when my feature credits run out- either I'll have high enough FB & sell-through that my items will get good placement even if I don't pay to feature. OR I will have to reconfigure my online auction strategy yet again. Bummer if that happens, cuz I had just got it to where I liked it!
) let us know! 