posted on November 24, 2000 05:20:59 PM newMaybe nobody has noticed - but along with features doing ZILCH for my auctions (and many others) I happened to notice this...
If you feature alisting that has say, 4 days left--- the Yahoo s/ware NOTES the TIME of day you do this and charges you much like the tel co's were doing a while back.
In other words today-- I featured an item and it had 4 days left and it was like, 3pm PST -- It calculated the time and did NOT charge .10 per day (.40)for 4 days -- It charged I think like .42 for 4.6 days 6 being a % of time left!!!
This is incredible-- we will have to make judgements on these factors as the auction grows....
Now that's not alot of $$ I know, but for high ticket items, it could be considerable. What this appears to be is.. once there are gazillion auctions listed those pennies are what Yahoo is looking for. This is based on BANKING system type float. This feature system is VERY SERIOUS business!
Also, when are paying a certain amount to be featured, another lister can come in and drop you to the bottom of the list by increasing what he's willing to pay etc etc........That is the nature of this game. HOWEVER, do any of you have the time to now participate in a bidding war over featured items?? I don't!!!
What this all looks like - is NOT a feature system but a bidding structure (in disguise) IN ORDER to be SEEN at all!
Why can't they just bite the bullet and have the class to CHARGE listing fees?? We could handle it - due to the fact they have site stability and minimal downtime. But, THIS charade of ALL OUR AUCTIONS turning to crap--- at the same time is tooooooo hard to believe. Ebay items are selling, but Yahoo items are frozen??? Give me a break! I simply don't buy it~
posted on November 24, 2000 05:27:08 PM new
Agree fully, this bidding war is going to price us out of yahoo.
A fixed charge for listing makes a great deal more sense.
posted on November 24, 2000 06:17:28 PM new
Hold on here..
All of us (almost all of us?) came to Yahoo for the price.
We are not going to pay for poor results, by our natures.
On the 4.6 days thing, I thought that was very cool. These are computers after all - precision instruments. It seems logical to me, not devious. Should you pay for a "day" and get the better part of a day, or pay for exactly precisely what you get?
I like the feature program and I wonder how you think it might be done differently and/or better.
chasd - you can get a fixed price listing at Ebay. There will be no "war" if there are no sales. The market will set the price and if will fluctuate up and down. The model is alive. I think it's great.
posted on November 24, 2000 06:23:59 PM new
ioughta
There's something you didn't mention. If you featured an auction for less than 1 day (for instance 12 hours) you get charged for the entire day. If they are going to charge extra for part of a day they should charge only the percentage for less than 1 day.
posted on November 24, 2000 06:28:39 PM newbidding war is going to price us out of yahoo
Wait till most people use up their free credits and you will see the bidding wars come to an end. The other day I saw one person bidd $10 per day to feature a $2.99 (starting bid) item.
posted on November 24, 2000 07:17:57 PM new
outoftheblue-- that's true- should be discounted if you start late in the day
VM-- High finance and high tech is not really the point here. Features - are not truly being represented as such. This is a financial numbers game. In other words, the more we pay - the more we'll be viewed. Now, as for people who do direct search--- there have been complaints that the items do NOT show up. Had dinner with a couple yesterday and they are bidders, not sellers. She tried 18 ways from Sunday to find an item she had seen -- she typed in the exact heading and zilch! When she finally did find it - by scrolling tons of pages...she cut and pasted it and zilch again! Something ain't right here- If it was featured, methinks it would have come right up.
Picture this- you pay .25/day for 10 days to sell a 400.00 item, it gets hits, bids etc and it's looking good - might make reserve. ANOTHER seller with a similar item could come in on the last day and bump you waaay down to the bottom of the list (by then there will be hundreds of featured items- maybe thousands) and you will lose your exposure you were so enjoying.
What does Yahoo hope you'll do? RAISE the ante and bid .35 for the last day or so and it could go on until you don't know WHERE the heck you are in line......
At least if we paid a fixed price~ we may be scattered into the crowd but the playing field would at least be fair.
This is beginning to resemble the crap tables in Vegas
posted on November 24, 2000 07:29:55 PM new
ioughta- I actually agree with you, where I would have disagreed before Yahoo made all those wacko changes. I do like it that we pay for parts of days, that's fine with me. What I don't like is that I now feel we are not on a "level" playing field. You are right- we ARE bidding to be seen.
I thought the feature system was great before the listings got "scrambled". Now that the listings are scrambled it has been an uphill battle for me to sell anything on Yahoo, despite featuring. Part of my current problem is Yahoo's category structure. I didn't have a problem selling things, despite cluttered categories, when my items had at least a day where they were close to the top & could be seen. Now I don't have that exposure even when I feature- I can't afford to pay more than 11-12¢ per day to feature, and even that is a stretch for some of my items. 12¢ per day does NOT buy good placement in some of the truly overloaded categories. Which means that it doesn't make economic sense for me to list those items on Yahoo.
I keep revising my auction strategy over and over. Last week I found that I was able to sell quite a bit by featuring, starting my auctions at $1, and using a reasonable buy price. However, only some of the stuff sold at the buy price, and I sold many of the items at the break-even point. Truthfully, looking at the entire picture, it was not worth all the effort. (I have hardly been selling anything these days with "First bid wins" just by itself, which used to work well for me.) My sell through percent is SHOT and I'm discouraged.
My new plan is to just slowly phase auctions out of my life starting with the first of the year. It's been fun, but right now the extra income is not paying for my time, the clutter in my house, the annoyingly frequent trips to the post office... the possiblility of roaches due to having bought infested inventory...(this happened to me recently, I posted another thread about it in the Ebay outlook)
Actually I think outoftheblue makes a good point too. I remember when I FIRST got my feature credits and FIRST started featuring ALL my stuff- my sales went crazy. I think I was one of the first to get the credits. Now EVERYONE is featured. Maybe things will calm down a little when everyone has used up their credits. I'm not going to stake my rent money on that though.
posted on November 24, 2000 07:33:27 PM new
Another thing- I don't play that "feature on the last day" or "pay extra on the last day" game. I DON'T have time for that. Time is money too, y'know? It's time consuming enough just to get everything listed. Maybe my sales would be better if I did that but I refuse. Life is too short. just my 2¢.
posted on November 24, 2000 08:13:39 PM new
ioughta
Hear Yea hear Yea! I agree with you whole heartedly!
I have been with Yahoo Auctions almost since they started, since I do not like having all my eggs in one basket I always keep looking!
Some folks have been selling items via the Yahoo Auction classified method! A couple years ago you could auto resubmit five times up to 14 days each!
That meant 70 days worth of free classifieds whether your items sold or not! (Now called SPAM)
Was and still is a pain to buy here, especially after they stoped the auctions coming up by end time in the "Photos Only" the beginning of September!
For me it was the only way to browse Yahoo auctions in collectible categories as a buyer, since a picture is still worth a 1000 words!
The only way to get your auctions to the front of the "Photos Only" section is via the BID for position method or the magic formula with seller performance!
In other words those who loaded up the system from the get go, get rewarded! I should have been doing the same thing, since the price then as it is now! FREE!
YAHOO did the babysitting and selling for you! Oh well 20-20 hindsight!
Some folks with high feedbacks and multiple ID's are still doing the same thing only for a shorter period!
I was going to do some books on Yahoo with its limited categories, but when I see one seller(800+ rating) with over fifty pages of listings and with only a couple bids on any of them? Things have not changed much!
I believe the plot behind the credits for feedback from other auction sites was to get us to start paying and Yahoos method of easing sellers into it!
Fixed pricing would be fine, but why make sellers compete against each other in an auction format, when that is what our buyers are should be doing?
This will only drive everyones prices up and not lure buyers or sellers to Yahoo!
posted on November 24, 2000 09:06:39 PM new
I Dont fool with the featureing to much on yahoo no more yahoo was hell when it was well but hasnt been well in a long time.
There are people just comeing in as new sellers with $2000 and $5000 for free feature credits and sellers that been there less time then many of us selling penny item with high feed back Changed the listing so lower feed back is always on the bottom of the deck.
I dont stand a chance after a year building sales there I cant compete with bidding features on hundereds of listings and even when I try still get only one bid on a $5 item and a $50 billing for the month from yahoo.
If it comes to paying to sell ebay is still the best buy .25 for up to 20 day for under $10 start bid and FVF when you sell.
moved MY Niche items over to ebay back in June when my sales dropped on yahoo and been selling well there since that time I have had 3 sales on yahoo and 10 dead beats since june.
If I was paying there features and not selling on ebay I would need two more full time jobs to pay my debt I would owe yahoo. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on November 25, 2000 02:19:52 AM new
The whole Featured Auction structure on Yahoo Auctions, is in my opinion 100% perfect. They actually did something that can not be improved upon.
It also helps not to show how young you are Think and act proessional at all times. I am glad to see the 16yr olds and those who act like it leave yahoo.
Ya gotta job with auctions? then do it right, and right takes time.
posted on November 25, 2000 06:23:26 AM new
I agree with you gem.
I do wish the listings were ordered by ending times. It is easier on the eye and they psyche for one thing. Outside of that I have complaint none with Yahoo.
I have credits but I rarely feature and sell things every day by search. Who has time to browse categories anyway? If you are selling something even remotely unique a potential buyer will find it (as opposed to find yours lost in a see of 200 others) and buy it.
It is true, you will be seen LESS if you are not featured, but you will be seen by the buyer who matters and that is all that counts. This happens everyday and when it does, I owe nobody anything and this is why I DO YAHOOOOO!
posted on November 25, 2000 07:26:37 AM new
Yahoo has copied this bid for feature system from Amazon, and look how they are doing today. If I didn't have 5 grand in credits, I wouldn't pay to feature.
posted on November 25, 2000 10:11:43 AM new
I agree that yahoo's bid for feature is fine like I said right now they have two main problems.
To many people with loads of free credits for these feature and therelisting need to be changed back to a normal system of ending now on top.
The way it is now high feed back has a bigger % of the veiwers now not only have to compete with yahoo high feed back sellers but seller from ebay with thousands of feed back and free money.
garentee if these people were able to turn this free credit in to cash to use like yahoo bill pay they wouldnt be featureing at all many wouldnt even list items. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on November 25, 2000 11:54:16 AM new
I agree I have something of a "Geeesh!" reaction to the recent funding of eBay accounts with Yahoo Feature funny-money. I picked up a bit over a hundred $ myself but it sort of made me wish I'd been buying a zillion 50c things from different sellers on eBay this past year so I'd have the big bucks to work with, too.
I've had reasonable success using cautious featured listings in the past... typically I run a few featured items, paying to have them high on the lists (fortunately my areas still give a decent position for 40c or 50c a day), run them as a low start true auction for maybe 4 or 5 days, and try to direct viewers to bookmark my long selling list where I set things for 10 days and 2 auto relists at "first bid wins." Also, setting them for those listings lets the Auction Watch search engine find them and show them to AW users.
Some of my areas have just collapsed for buyers lately despite having pretty good patronage during the summer; another major category seems about the same except for the mob of new listers in the featured areas. I plan on conserving my credits until after Xmas, actually.....
posted on November 25, 2000 03:28:20 PM new
VeryModern- I think you hit the nail on the head as to what my problem is. I am NOT selling unique items. Try running a search on "Barbie". Whether the shopper is browsing by category or using the search engine, a bazillion matches for "Barbie" show up. And regardless of whether you're using the search engine or browsing by category, the featured stuff is all showing up first.
The major categories that I sell in are "Pink Box Barbie" and "Dolls- Other". All I know is that these categories have always been mammouth but I used to sell everything I listed and most of it in under a week. My prices haven't changed. My level of service hasn't changed. What has changed is the level of exposure my items are getting, and possibly economic/political conditions are entering into the picture (for all auction sellers) as well.
Bottom line: I am paying Yahoo more and recieving less from them. I was a huge Yahoo "cheerleader" before these changes. I still in fact prefer using Yahoo over ebay, but I am a lot less enthusiastic considering it has been much harder for me to sell on Yahoo. I've said this before- I do not mind paying for the service I recieve from Yahoo. That is not my problem. The problem is that I want a good value for what I pay. As of right now, for me, Yahoo costs (on average) about as much as Ebay does. IS that a bargain? Well, yes, when Ebay is down, and NO when Ebay is up.
Gem, I am sure your comment was not aimed at me specifically, but I do resent your implication that I don't run my auction business professionally. I do. Most professionals do analyze things in terms of cost and efficiency. To me that only makes sense. That is unprofessional?
posted on November 25, 2000 03:42:16 PM new
CAgrrl - I can see where you would have a problem. The listing order needs to be restored to ending times. That would straighten it out for you, right?
Seems it is not the featuring situation but the jumbled listings that have devastated results. I will say, I would not be running an "AUCTION" not featured under any circumstances..
Have it ending on page 17?
I don't think so.
posted on November 25, 2000 03:56:56 PM new
Yes, VeryModern, right again! You said it! The problem is HAVING to feature, not the actual way the feature system works. Fair enough to bid for featured placement, that I actually like & agree with so that isn't the problem. The more I think about it the more I agree that it is the scrambled listings that is the real problem.
posted on November 25, 2000 05:04:18 PM newThe whole Featured Auction structure on Yahoo Auctions, is in my opinion 100% perfect.
I agree. You pay what you think placement is worth. How is that possibly unfair? It's ecomomics at it's most simple.
I agree that the scrambled listings is a misguided attempt to push featuring.
However, I think that the problem most people have with the featured system is that they want something for nothing. Never mind that a dollar spent on Yahoo will go 10 times further than a dollar spent on Ebay.
posted on November 25, 2000 05:16:21 PM new
GEM========= I AM QUOTING YOUR POST !!
Your comment=== "The whole Featured Auction structure on Yahoo Auctions, is in my opinion 100% perfect.======== (WHAAAATTT????)They actually
did something that can not be improved upon. =========(WHAAAT???? ARE YOU NUTS?? EVERYTHING can be improved!!!!!)
It also helps not to show how young =============(GIRL, I'm waaaay up there, so I know you aren't referring to me - but if you were- considere it ignored ) you are
Think and act**** (maybe like learning how to spell??) --->>>>>proessional at all times.
I am glad to see
the 16yr olds and those who act like it leave yahoo.========(DON'T I WISH I was 16 again!!! They know more about the net than WE DO)===========
Ya gotta job with auctions? then do it right, and right takes time. "========== (SUCH Gems of wisdom!!! May I quote you?? )===========
END GEM'S QUOTE
====================================
Can't wait to see your Purrrfect auctions with Purrrrfect Features and Purrrrfect sales. Puuurrrfect Profits????
Give me a break, and don't post this kind of annoying Yahoo propaganda again---------especially on a thread I started. Not being sarcastic - nor interested in exchanging heated debate..........at all!!!!!---I'm a peaceful sort but your post is REDICULOUS!! I just calls 'em as I sees 'em
posted on November 25, 2000 05:42:32 PM new
"However, I think that the problem most people have with the featured system is that they want something for nothing."
I must assume from the nature of your post that you are refering to those people who complain that listings are not seen unless they are featured. If this is the case, I must completely disagree with you. Before the listings were jumbled, there were NO posts that I can recall about the "featured system", and nothing has changed in the featured system that would cause anyone to complain (or at least I don't think anyone would complain about the lower price or the rebates). I agree that most of the complaints about the "featured system" are actually complaints about the listing order. It's almost like if you wanted to open a store and being given a choice of renting space in the mall which sits on the highway, or opening your store deep in the woods behind the mall at the end of a cow path. As has been discussed many times on this board, the listing order is not fair by any stretch of the imagination, and I can't recall anyone praising it (except maybe some of the sellers who sell cards and such for 25 cents...or who just sell feedback!). The biggest problem I have with Yahoo at the moment other is, similar to PayPal, what they have done to the sellers who have made Yahoo Auctions what they are today. They ran off a lot of bidders with their credit card verification and done NOTHING to attract new bidders to replace them (by the way, anyone know if they are being required to re-verify and re-verify like the sellers are?). They offer feature dollars to new E-bay and Amazon sellers to attract them, but have done nothing for the sellers who have been with them since the beginning and made them what they are except for running off bidders and sticking them at the end of the cow path...unless of course they can afford to compete with the sellers they gave the free credits to. I have no problem with the free credits, I have a problem with the fact that they are doing nothing positive for the sellers who have made them what they are.
Also, I guess that since they are featuring everything they list without complaining, all those sellers who requested the free credits are in no way the sellers who "want something for nothing".
posted on November 25, 2000 06:32:41 PM new
On reflection, you are right the big problem
is the scrambled listings.
A really cheap move to promote features.
posted on November 25, 2000 06:34:47 PM new
At present it is by far cheaper to list on Yahoo and bid against my fellow sellers
for "featured placement position" while the Free credits last from E-Bay!
When they run out and it costs me $1.00 to hopefully move it to the front of the pages against someone who has $5000 worth of free credits my $1.00 won't go very far!
Then again if Yahoo changes the sort order back to by end time viewing, WHO IS GOING TO FEATURE?
"Y" is in the business of making money and they could just be up front with the sellers!
I do not mind paying as I did when I ran a store or worked the Antique malls or even for that matter on E-bay and other sites as long as my merchandise moves and I realize a profit!
If I list an item for $8 and it doesn't sell on Yahoo, but list it on E-Bay starting at
the same $8 and it sells for $10.00, it still only cost me $0.75 or the same $1.00 it cost me on Yahoo if I had featured the Item on E-bay!
I guess the bright side at present is the resubmit doesn't cost anything and I am only out a $1 if I choose not to bid it in to a featured position again on Yahoo!
After the 15 Items remaining on E-bay sold for around $300 today with great competitive bidding and none with a starting bid of over $10 and my Yahoo auctions closing only have about 6 bids and none of them have made it to $10!
posted on November 26, 2000 08:25:48 AM new
They got me at last. I tried to feature an
item and found that some person had featured
a $15.00 item for 7 days at $2.00 per.
Think I'll take a nap untill this is over.
I try to adapt but this is unreal.
How about credits for established sellers?
posted on November 27, 2000 10:37:24 AM new
heygrape
Yahoo's RIDICULOUS LISTING ORDER is KILLING US!
I Agree!!!! The only way some of us can make sales now is to feature. After our credits are used up we will probably be forced into quiting Yahoo entirely. No use listing items if they don't sell and Ebay is cheaper if we have to feature on Yahoo to make any sales. The reason we are listing on Yahoo in the first place is because there is no listing fees.
If everyone who doesn't like their "RIDICULOUS LISTING ORDER" was to email and complain, maybe they would see their mistake and change it back.
posted on November 27, 2000 10:44:00 AM new
I just started selling on Yahoo a couple of months ago, but I do agree that it was a bad move on Yahoo's part to only reward sellers coming from other sites and to not reward those who had earned their feedback at Yahoo.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:09:26 PM new
Could someone with more computer savvy than myself (almost everyone out there!) start a petition we could all sign to send to Yahoo about the listing order? I think it is hurting us all. I have emailed them about it. I got a canned response. Melanie
"If man were to be crossed with a cat, it would greatly improve the man, but deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
Maybe nobody has noticed - but along with features doing ZILCH for my auctions (and many others) I happened to notice this...
I AM QUOTING YOUR POST !!
