aurorah
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posted on September 7, 1999 10:06:55 PM new
Heck sparkz I will sell ya their contact info for say... just a dollar?
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sparkz
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posted on September 7, 1999 10:17:25 PM new
Nice try Aurorah, but I predict that within less than a week we will be able to get that same info plus more for free on CNN or MSNBC.
Hey, I've got a great idea. How about trying to set up a FSU Bulldog football game dedicated to Jeff Buckley ( of St. Louis Mo.) ? Bound to raise a few questions in the media.
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aurorah
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posted on September 7, 1999 10:25:06 PM new
I am afraid I can't be of much help there sparks. The only Bulldogs we have in here Georgia are from GA Tech... I think. (oh gads I can see the flames now if I am wrong). But if ya like, I will give you my son's email addy at CSU Fresno and you can get together with him. He knows lots of them tenacious type atheletes. Of course he is more of a soccor and wrestling fiend, but if you have a good looking daughter or sister I am sure he will be happy to volunteer!
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TheFed
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posted on September 7, 1999 10:37:25 PM new
oldstuff:
What a great idea! Could you tell me when this will be held and where. Will it be here on the message board? One small question: I bought a promotional video tape, which is marked as such, at a garage sale over the weekend. Is it ok to sell it on eBay? Thanks and good luck with this fabulous idea!
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bgross1065
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:22:09 AM new
Hello Julesy & Aurorah 
Tell me what your question is. I am trying to play on their field by the rules they set!. How else can we be saved from the famous "just one dollar". I never use a hidden addy so if you look me up on ebay you will see I pull no punches,([email protected]). I have used a lesser version of the tos before the boycott. Yes, I did not list for 17 days! yesterday was my first listing since this whole thing started on 9/20/99. Barry
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julesy
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posted on September 8, 1999 07:29:17 AM new
Aurora,
bgross wasn't kiddding
That is a sight to behold!
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neomax
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posted on September 8, 1999 10:23:44 AM new
Aurorah:
No flame but the Bulldogs hail from the University of GA, not GA Tech -- they are the "Yellowjackets."
I would also have a question for Oldstuff's dad and that would be, considering the DCMA's intent was to protect Internet Service Providers, whether it even applies to online auction venues?
For instance, the removal and put-back provisions are totally out of sync with online auction timing where an item appears typically from 1-7 days, eliminating the opportunity, in large part, to even exercise the putback provisions.
I would suspect the best answer would be couched in terms of the "odds" that a trial court, appeals court, Circuit court of appeals and the Supreme Court (will it get that far?) would agree that an online auction is afforded protection by the DMCA.
Then, if the determination is that the odds are the DMCA does not actually apply but only sets the mood of the law which has yet to be litigated, would that help explain eBay's practices in administrating its VeRO program?
Pat
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em3
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:03:17 PM new
I too would like to add my voice as one who has some serious concerns about the Legal Buddy/VERO program at eBay
I would also like to extend my THANK'S to oldstuff and father for making this opportunity available to us.
Earl
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aurorah
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:20:48 PM new
Oi vey...
bgross: I do believe the purpose of this thread is to invite questions from the forum users about particular legalities of Intellectual Property Rights and eBay's VeRO program. Your particular questions re your TOS might be better posed on it's own thread. *biting my tongue here* I am sure that you will get more than an earful of wonderfully constructive advice and suggestions from other users. JMO- as usual.
Neomax- thanks for the information. My old alma mater in California is known as the home of the Fresno State Bulldogs. And everyone knows that California teams rule. 
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bgross1065
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:29:45 PM new
aurorah
I reread oldstuffs original post and he said we can ask questions pertaining to ebay.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:37:22 PM new
I'd just like to ask what the definition of copyright infringement is exactly. Another case last week, ebay user puts up Louis Vuitton for sale. Her auction is shut down. Does the company complain or is it policing done by ebay?
Many have these questions. In theorm WE own these articles yet we are forbidden to resell them. I'm not at all clear on this.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:47:44 PM new
Good Afternoon! Dad's here, and we are going to get started shortly. Thought I would start out by posting some answers to questions that have already been asked. Please bear with me as I will be typing his answers as he tells them to me and I am not the swiftest typist around.
First...here is his disclaimer:
"I am answering these questions off the top of my head. Noone should rely on any information that I give. If you want legal advice that you can rely on consult an attorney for a consultation."
From me: Sorry, Dad has to say all of the above so he is not held liable himself...but I think he can answer quite a lot.
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kenlee
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:52:10 PM new
Oldstuff's Dad; Welcome and thanks for taking this time with us.
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aurorah
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:55:42 PM new
Hello Counselor and thanks for coming! Might you be willing to state your full credentials and area of specialty? Oh and oldstuff? I have found that it helps immensely to have two windows open simultaneously. Makes it much easier to refresh the one and answer in the other. I know that everyone here really appreciates your time and efforts!
[ edited by aurorah on Sep 8, 1999 02:58 PM ]
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 02:59:28 PM new
Well...Here goes!
First question: Can promo CDs be sold by individuals who have aquired them as giveaways from radio stations or from other similar sources?
Answer: In general if you own something you may sell it. If you don't you may not. If you acquired ownership of any promotional or qive-away item, from any source, you may sell it on any terms you wish, absent a contractual agreement on your part not to.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:03:28 PM new
Can promos be sold by individuals if they were purchased from other individuals, for example at a garage sale?
Same answer as first question.
Can other promotional material, like posters, key chains, etc received from radio stations, record companies etc be sold by individuals who received the free items, or who bought the items from another individual?
Same answer as first question.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:04:22 PM new
So, if I own said property, CD, etc it is mine to do with as I wish? And does this pertain also to designer label clothing? Or is this infringement?
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:04:25 PM new
Are there any restrictions on selling used records, CD's, tapes, as long as they are the original item and not home made (bootleg)copies?
The only restrictions on one's right to resell used property are the restrictions that he contractually agreed to.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:05:21 PM new
What is your opinion on eBays interpretation of the millenium act as applied to their Vero program?
I do not know Ebay's interpretation of any part of the act.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:07:18 PM new
Do you think eBay is vulnerable to a class action suit by the users whose auctions have been negatively impacted because of eBays implementation of VERO?
In order to give an intelligent opinion on the merits of any claim it is necessary to know all of the relevant facts. I do not know all of these facts. In addition the rules applicable to class action suits require information beyond that required with regard to ordinary litigation.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:09:35 PM new
Do you think jeffdefender(as a nickname for the estate parties involved) is vulnerable to law suits for auction interference?
See above answer. Hypothetically if one claims that a proposed transaction violates his rights in some way, but he knows that claim to be untrue, he may very well be subject to litigation if his claim causes one of the parties to the proposed transaction to back away from it.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:10:34 PM new
Do you think jeffdefender is vulnerable to a suit for improperly imposing claims of copyright infringement where there was no such infringement?
Same as last answer.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:14:42 PM new
Does it affect a person's right to resell if the promo CD has "Promotional Copy Not for Resale" stamped on it or not (as opposed to having a removable label saying same)?
A person is given a CD as a gift. That CD has printed on it "Promotional Copy Not For Resale". It is probably an infringement of that commitment if you sell it. However, you must also look at the consequences of that infringement. What damages, if any, has the giver of that gift suffered if you sell the CD? Maybe a few dollars worth. And who is going to sue you for a few dollars? I am not recommending that anyone breach a contractual commitment or any other binding commitment. But, everyone has the right to breach a contract, provided that he pays the price for the breach.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:17:26 PM new
Is there any way the JeffDefenders could legally control the use of Jeff Buckley's name to sell fan art, poems, etc.? How does it affect the situation that they called for fan art to be developed (on their website)?
In most US jurisdictions a person has a right called The right of publicity. That right survives a person's death, and belong's to the deceased person's estate. The right of publicity would generally prevent someone from making posters and other objects, for sale, that use the other person's name or likeness, unless a license is obtained from the other person or the other person's estate.
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Julesy
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:17:55 PM new
What about designer clothing? Coach, for instance, has been known to send cease and desist letters to sellers of their merchandise, although the seller owns it legitimately. How is this possible? Is it copyright infringement to display the logo on the clothing in an auction ad?
Thanks!
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:18:03 PM new
Would the situation be different if Jeff was alive and had control of his name?
No.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:20:52 PM new
We see this happening on eBay all the time. Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Coach. Auctions shut down. Has the manufacturer complained or is it an assumption of infringement?
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bhearsch
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:25:42 PM new
Hello. Does your Dad know if the service provider is required by the DMCA to post the rules concerning counter-notice disputing the claim of infringement so that the seller whose auction was shut down by an IPO knows the requirements for protesting the shutdown? The process on eBay seems to be one-sided in favor of the IPO. What can the seller do if he feels the auction was shut down unfairly? Thanks, Blanche
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:26:05 PM new
Legally, is there a difference between use of Jeff Buckley's name (e.g. Barry's poem) and his image?
How does it affect the situation if the fan art, poems, etc. simply mention Jeff Buckley in passing or say "inspired by Jeff" (e.g. Ross's pictures of Jeff Buckley's soul) as opposed to having Jeff Buckley be a key part of the artwork (e.g. a computer generated image of John Buckley)?
There is no difference between the use of a person's name and his image in connection with merchandise that is made strictly for commercial purposes. However, the law gives a fair amount of latitude to selected activities in terms of the use of another's name or likeness. For example: The media, i.e., print news, and radio and TV news, may use the name of someone or his image without his permission if it is used in connection with a news worthy purpose. For another example, a critic may revue a piece of published art, a novel, or some other creative work, using reproductions of those works in part and the name of the author, and the author's image, as part of the process of being a critic. Third example:
Anyone can write a poem about any public figure and use his name in the poem.
There is a blurry line often between what is considered a blatant commercial use of someone's name or likeness, such that does not qualify for any of these classes of protection, and those that do.
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oldstuff
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posted on September 8, 1999 03:28:19 PM new
Can the copyright holder control the use of an artists name if used as comparison in a review situation?
The right of publicity, which is the right involved in this instance, not copyright, would not prevent the kinds of comparisons you talk about.
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