fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:02:40 AM new
What the hell is he thinking doing an end run around the senate and shoving Bolton into UN? Has he just decided that he does not really want to accomplish anything for the two years? There is no way that he can believe that this is not going to have big time ramification from a senate whose opinions he has clearly disregarded.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 1, 2005 07:03 AM ]
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:05:53 AM new
I think it's GREAT News! Glad the President had the balls to flip the senate off and move ahead.
Where was the up or down vote? This has gone on long enough and now they will be forced to take action upon their return.
Only thing better would be an announcment that we are leaving the UN.
Ron
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:08:20 AM new
Do you really think that the Republican Senate majority didn't know he was going to do this?
Ron
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:09:41 AM new
I agree with Ron.
It's been six months and and a handful of obstructionist dems have kept his nomination from allowing an up or down vote. It's about time the President showed those dems everybody deserves an up or down vote.
He'll serve for 15 months....and at the end of that time I have no doubt the full Senate will then re-affirm him to this position.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:32:01 AM new
You guys seem to be ignoring that the democrats could not have held back the boat alone, there were republicans involved as well.
The point is, this was a STUPID move to make when you consider that the first thing he wants done when the Senate comes back to work is to pass his Supreme Court nominee. This is going to bite him. It also weakens him and Bolton.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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etexbill
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:37:46 AM new
Sorry, fenix, Clinton wanted to do the same thing. Did he ever think?
"Bolton isn't the first UN ambassador nominee to be stalled by partisan bickering. Richard Holbrooke, who was nominated to the post by President Bill Clinton in 1998, was held up for 14 months before winning confirmation in August 1999.
At one point during the long stalemate, White House officials raised the prospect of a recess appointment with Holbrooke, according to two people who were involved in the matter. Holbrooke refused, saying it would leave him with no credibility at the UN, according to the people, who declined to be identified."
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etexbill
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:39:05 AM new
"Only thing better would be an announcment that we are leaving the UN."
Ain't it the truth.
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:39:54 AM new
I know fenix, republican's are always wrong in the eyes of some dems. We're used to it. 
I personally don't think Robert's nomination is going to be affected by this issue at all. IF it is....it just shows the obstructionist dems for what they are.....dirty politicians. EACH issue should be decided on it's own merit....not 'if you do this...they we're going to get even' kind of nonsense.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:44:28 AM new
You forget fenix there is a work around to get Roberts in.
This won't affect the outcome of that nomination.
Why hadn't there been an up and down vote prior to their recess?
This was talked about last week and should of been no surprise to anyone.
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:45:17 AM new
Tex - I know that the first impulse of all republicans is to compare to Clinton but that is not the point. The point is that in a month the president wants the senate to meet and start the confirmation process on his first Supreme nominee and what does he do? An end run around them to appoint Bolton, a UN nominee who even republicans have doubts about.
It does not matter if that's what he is allowed to do. It does not matter if someone has done it in the past or wanted to do it in the past. The fact is that today, in this situation that was a stupid move and I think is a clear indicator of the lack of common sense and respect for Senate members or anyone that thinks differently than he does.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:45:51 AM new
"Only thing better would be an announcment that we are leaving the UN."
Ain't it the truth.
Yep...it sure is....but I'm extremely hopeful that when Bolton 'get's down to business' he'll change a few things around. I believe THAT'S what the dems are so afraid of....he's not known to pussy-foot around. ABOUT TIME, imo.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:50:39 AM new
You guys do realize that the more "work arounds" the president has to do, the more influence he loses right.
I mean personally, I say let him do a work around on Roberts do... hell, find a third end run pull off while you are at it because at the end of the day, the moderates are not impressed with a president that does end runs around the established system and are even less impressed with the republican House and Senate members that voice support of such measuures and as everyone knows, on election day, if you've lost the moderates, you've lost the election.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:53:26 AM new
Linda - you don't actually think he's going to be able to accomplish anything do you? He can't go in an kick an ass, the president just cut him off at the knees in terms of influence . Besides he only gets 14 months before he gets go thru this whole process all over again.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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cblev65252
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:55:36 AM new
Well said, Fenix. One more year to go then out with the repugs! I don't suspect that the majority of the people in this country will be happy about this at all. More and more, he's killing his own party.
Cheryl
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:12:44 AM new
fenix - first....
The fact is that today, in this situation that was a stupid move
I can understand looking at it from a liberal standpoint one might see it that way, but **others** see it much differently. They see it as the Senate left him no other option, IF he wanted the man he felt was the best for the job....HIS CHOICE for the position. And we could all see that he wasn't going to get an up or down vote anytime soon and there are important things going on at the UN.....thing this President wants HIS man to be involved in at the UN.
I don't see that as being unreasonable at all and don't agree some moderates aren't just as frustrated about this issue not being given an up or down vote. Let it got to a vote....IF most don't like him, no matter which party, he wouldn't be confirmed. The dems KNOW he would be....so they refuse to let it go to a vote. Pure obstructionism.
and I think is a clear indicator of the lack of common sense and respect for Senate members or anyone that thinks differently than he does.
I have to laugh....this President has MORE common sense than most recent President's have had. He's goal focused....and will do what he has to do to reach his goals....no matter the 'poll' results. We've seen that over and over.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:20:07 AM new
fenix - second...
you don't actually think he's going to be able to accomplish anything do you? He can't go in an kick an ass,
Yes, I really do think he's going to accomplish what this President wants him to do. He has the FULL support of this President or he wouldn't have taken this route to put him in that position to begin with. He could have let this continue on as it was...giving it more time...or choosing to nominate someone the dems would have approved of...and let it go to a vote. He didn't. I think in the minds of the dem party...they THINK Bolton will have less influence....but I don't see that happening. Time will tell though.
Besides he only gets 14 months before he gets go thru this whole process all over again. I'm sure you know where we'll be in 14-15 months....Nov. 2006 elections.
And that I'm aware of....I don't think there's been any reversals of 'recess' appointments that have ended up being reversed. Are you?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:24:42 AM new
They cannot reverse it but they can decide to not reconfirm him.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:38:56 AM new
fenix - Okay...a different choice of wording.....same question. Do you know of any recess appointments that were NOT confirmed when they came up again?
-----------
And to those dems who THINK there's going to be changes made in the 2006 balance of the Senate or the House....might want to read this article which reviews how obstrustionism of judges HURT the dem party in 2002. Same thing could happen again in 2006.
Filibustering judges has only hurt Democrats.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/nextjustice/?id=110007041
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 1, 2005 08:44 AM ]
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etexbill
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:45:23 AM new
"Tex - I know that the first impulse of all republicans is to compare to Clinton but that is not the point."
Yes, fenix, that is exactly the point. You are putting down the President for doing the same thing that Clinton wanted to do and would have done if the nominee would have gone along with it.
You use the measures that are necessary to accomplish something you believe in.
It's been done in Washington for over 200 years and will continue to be done by all parties.
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:48:08 AM new
I don't know if it's ever been done before but there is a first time for everything.
If this guy is ineffectual I don't see even a republican congress being able to logically justify keeping him there. I think there will be a bit of face saving measures and he would be asked to step down if there were indications that he would not be reconfirmed.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:53:36 AM new
tex - you are completely ignoring a major factor here. Clinton did not have a Supreme court nominee waiting in the wings to be confirmed as soon as the House returned to work.
You can try to compare this to Clinton but since the variables are entirely different it does not bear much relevence. I'm sorry but this is an action that comes across more as the act of a spoiled child that wants what he wants when he wants it than the leader of a free nation based in a democratic system of government that is trying to set an example for other nations.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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etexbill
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:10:05 AM new
fenix, in my opinion, the Supreme Court nominee will be confirmed without much trouble.
Just my two cents worth.
I'll agree to disagree on this one.
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etexbill
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:18:45 AM new
Again, the Supreme Court nominee will be confirmed. Who else should be nominated??
It's been ten days and mingotree/CF has no answers or suggestions. From another thread:
mingotree
posted on July 22, 2005 08:16:45 PM His wife is actively and rabidly anti-choice.
maggiemuggins
posted on July 22, 2005 08:29:23 PM Yes, I heard that Mingo..but who would have been a better choice, in your opinion..?
etexbill
posted on July 26, 2005 01:29:11 PM edit OK, mingo, it's been four days and we are still waiting for the answer to maggie's question.
You can sure rant and rave against someone but when you are asked for an answer to a reasonable question the silence is deafening. You can spew out the rants, but you have no better suggestions of your own.
If you do, let's hear them in a polite, reasonable, and well thought out post"
Other than mingotree/CF's opinion that his wife "wears Jackie O clothes and is rabidly anti-choice", I don't see much opposition from either side.
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:21:50 AM new
I agree with etexbill too...on Robert's being confirmed. This President made a smart choice in picking him.....and while the dems with have their 15 minutes of screaming/bitching etc....he'll be confirmed. I have no doubt.
-------
On the Bolton nomination...and the animosity coming from the left towards him.....I find it funny that most of the left so supports the corrupt leaders in the UN....downplay the oil-for-food programs....downplay which countries sit on the human rights committee....but boy they'll sure scream blooding murder about a stong, pro-American policy man being nominated. 
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:24:04 AM new
tex - I thought he would be too until Bush pulled this one. It's not that I don't think he will go thru but I don't think that it's going to be as smooth as it would have been before this stunt.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:48:53 AM new
Why should we of gone 15 more months without a representative to the UN?
I am still waiting for someone to say why he did not get an up or down vote?
I agree with etex this will not hurt Roberts but will let the Senate know that ALL political options will be put into play.
Ron
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Bear1949
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posted on August 1, 2005 10:42:21 AM new
What the hell is he thinking doing an end run around the senate and shoving Bolton into UN?
Its called bypassing obstructionist liberals
A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
- Bill Cosby
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fenix03
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posted on August 1, 2005 10:53:44 AM new
Ron - why do you believe it would have been 15 months? It would have been taken up again after the recess or Bush could have withdrawn the Bolton nomination and offered up a new one.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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Linda_K
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posted on August 1, 2005 11:04:15 AM new
fenix - What makes you think those who opposed the Bolten nomination would have EVER agreed to his nomination? Their intent was to force the President to nominate someone else.
They were just trying to show their power.....
....and this President showed THEM HE has more power. There ARE benefits to being re-elected President....and it involves having the power to make certain decisions.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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mingotree
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posted on August 1, 2005 11:51:58 AM new
Sneaky, underhanded, dishonorable and totally against the spirit of democracy ..but that's just Bushy and the Pro-Dictator Party.
He said, "dictatorships are bad unless I'm the dictator."
So I hope America gets what she asked for 
Obstructionists? No, just what American democracy was founded on...a series of checks and balances to protect Americans from dictatorship........so sad it's not working.
Happy Dictatorship America!
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