posted on July 8, 2001 03:54:17 PM new
I sincerely hope you all find swift, healthy resolutions to your biggest issues....
Today I had to kick my oldest son out of our house. After years of trouble & counseling, he refused to follow the rules of the house. (or rules of school or a job for that matter) With two younger children watching and absorbing all of this, we laid down the basic rules. Tell us where you're going, be home on time (or reasonably close) and leaving the house for days on end without us knowing where you are would not be tolerated. After his last stint of 8 days away, I let him back in because it was his birthday, making it perfectly clear that if he did this again, HE would be making the decision to leave our house. He was doing fine for about 15 days, and then bamm, two days ago, he just didn't come home. Found him this morning asleep in his bed (he jimmed the lock on the garage door) and reiterated what we had explained on his birthday. After yet another battle, he left.
I don't know why the hell I'm posting this here, but it is my biggest issue and I am simply devastated.
posted on July 8, 2001 04:55:27 PM new
Sadie999- We have thought about some of the issues you have mentioned. We are now 20 minutes from everything in the world you might want, theatre, concerts, movies, world class cuisines [ dine in or carry out ], museums, professional and college sports, airport.
Down side is traffic, crowds, and lines. The fish bowl effect is true. I could get arrested for public indecency and my neighbors wouldn't know unless it was a really, really slow day for the local news.
I would also miss my cable internet connection.
We have a couple years before we commit to it one way or the other. We were both raised on farms and "think" it would be nice to buy a farm and have that lifestyle again.
Need to sort it out, our memories may be faulty of just how idylic it was back then.
posted on July 8, 2001 05:16:39 PM new
rancher24, some of what you describe sounds familiar to me. I was probably a lot like your son. I was rebellious and for me rules were made to break. Part of this was probably untreated depression and anxiety. When I was younger, most of the medicines for depression weren't around and for some people they still aren't very effective. Sometimes, as hard as it may be, you just have to realize that you've done as much as you can - just be there for support if he asks and hope that he will continue in counselling. Some of my cousin's daughters have been in and out of juvenile detention centers, but when two of them turned twenty, they turned their lives around. One was finally diagnosed as hypoglycemic and the other moved to a treatment center in California where she is doing fine. I know this isn't much help, but I hope things go well for you and your son.
posted on July 8, 2001 06:37:52 PM new
Thanks for asking, but I don't have any other -than-normal issues right now......I just wanted to know how everyone was doing!
rancher, (Hi!!!!!), I can relate to what you're talking about. I was a rebel too, but am glad my parents were tough on me. Of course, I didn't realize this until I was well into my 30's. Stick to your guns!
reamond, I used to live in the city, now I'm in the country and love the peace & quiet. There's a General Store at the corner and a Gas Station on the other corner, so I'm all set! The sky's clear for telescope viewing, I can play the stereo as loud as I want, I never have company drop in unexpected because they think I live "out in the sticks" now, the wildlife is great.....foxes, chipmunks, raccoons, opossums, deer,...you name it! The only thing I hate, is when we have a power failure.....everything runs on pumps...the well, the plumbing, laundry, etc. I couldn't go back now!
posted on July 8, 2001 07:14:51 PM new
Thanks for your help Terri, but I'm in Canada. I'm a big Honda fan, and Honda generators are about $2000.00 here (ouch!), but to help YOU out, they have air conditioners at Sam's....(just teasing!! )
posted on July 8, 2001 09:10:14 PM new
Rancher24, I have a situation similar to yours. My son is only 19 and is home from college for the summer. He met this 17 year old girl a few months ago and spends 100% of his time with her. He's taken to sleeping on the trampoline outside of her house. They came here for dinner one night, just walked in and asked what's cooking. We let them stay but yesterday my husband and I left early in the day for a trip to the country. We took a picnic lunch and dinner with us. We were fairly near to the house and stopped to eat at a park. The cell phone rang and it was my son asking where we were. It seems they had been at the house for hours "waiting for us to come home to cook dinner" I told him we were at the park. He asked again, what's for dinner? Nothing, I replied, we already ate dinner. He had assumed that since it was Saturday and my husband wasn't working, he would be grilling. Hubby and I had a good laugh and just stayed out a little longer. They fixed themselves hamburgers and then left. He came home to sleep last night but I was gone today before he woke up. If he doesn't come home tonight, I'm going to tell him to make up his mind where he's going to live (here in a house or on a trampoline outside her house). If he chooses the latter, he can take his clothes with him. If he says he wants to live home, he'd better be home every night of the week. I can't see how her mother and father allow him to sleep outside like a bum. I really don't want him inside either, but I would think they would tell him to go home.
Good luck with yours. It's hard to do and hard to accept once we've done it, but sometimes it's for the best. They come home when the money runs dry.
posted on July 8, 2001 09:16:50 PM new
My septic tank not working properly (ahh country living), and hoping my dog's tail is going to be OK, six stitches and some funky bandages, after closing the car door on it!
sheikyerbooty!
[ edited by sheikyerbooty on Jul 8, 2001 09:21 PM ]
posted on July 9, 2001 07:08:12 AM new
Thanx saabsister and kraftdinner for sharin' the "other side" of this nightmare...I've talked to several people who were the same way. All of them seemed to have several things in common: no one could tell them anything, their parents became the enemy (no matter how hard the parents tried to help) AND what struck me the most, was they all claimed that THEY had to hit rock bottom before they understood the path of destruction that they were traveling. I pray that he comes to this realization BEFORE he does something tragic.
JMHO2, I feel for ya!....Amusing how they feel they can come & go at their whim, but if they can't find us, well that's simply outrage!!!....Be comforted in the facts that a: he did make it to college (at the rate we are going my son will not even finish high school) and (small comfort, I know) but at least you know where he is sleeping. I hope your situation works out for you all....
posted on July 9, 2001 07:22:22 AM new
Don't lose hope Rancher. I remember my youth. I don't know if it works this way for others but I was my smartest at 18. At that age I knew it all, experience hadn't gotten in the way. Every year I seem to have fewer and fewer answers and more and more questions.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:25:25 AM new
I do want an air conditioner Kraft!
We checked on central air and it was going to be $3000 per floor. We would need one unit in the attic and one on the ground. Our house only has insulation in the rooms that we totally gutted...ummm....the bathrooms...the kitchen. We hauled away 50 TRUCK LOADS of plaster and lathe boards from the kitchen alone! Enough!
Besides that the house has 48 huge wood windows, the kind that the top slides down and the bottom slides up. (It's supposed to create a "cross draft"...that's a 108 degree breeze.) They are not very energy efficient.
So, point being, IF we had central air, it would probably cost us $2000 a month to run it. Can not do!
We do have an attic fan of hurricane force so from 1am-6am it's very nice. Day is nearly unbearable. I'm up to 3 showers a day now. (I could just stand under the cold water all day?)
posted on July 9, 2001 08:00:17 AM new
Rancher24, I don't know if you're familiar with the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. It's a personality, temperament test that can be taken over the web. For me it was a real eye-opener. Everyone in my family has taken it either as part of their job training or by using Keirsey and Bates's book "Please Understand Me". They are all SJs(traditional types), but I'm an NT. I think we were destined to disagree. The results of my test gave me a feeling of relief - that I didn't have to be like my parents. It also gave me an idea of how and why some of our arguments originated. After my husband took the test as part of his job, he came home and announced to my friend and me that he learned that not everyone was like him and -surprise, surprise - not everyone aspired to be like him. My friend and I were ROFL. You'd probably have to know my husband to know why that is so funny - he's a real oner.
posted on July 9, 2001 10:20:27 AM new
Out of curiosity I had a look at the Keirsey page and the personality test.
The test is severely flawed with false dichotomies. As example, a choice between "justice" or "mercy". Mercy is an element of justice and justice is an element of mercy - you can not have mercy unless just, and you can not be just without mercy. One of Plato's dialogues explored this situation about virtues. The "chain" of virtues is as strong as its weakest link. As example- can one be brave if one lacks wisdom ? No, a person that is ignorant and does things without knowledge of the act's danger and risk is not brave. There is no courage required in doing an act that one does not perceive the dangers or risks of, therefore it does not exhibit the personal virtue of bravery.
So what personality factors could be deduced when one is forced to make a choice between these two concepts ? Either the test taker doesn't understand the overlap of the concepts and non-exclusivity of the concepts, or the choice between the two concepts was made for reasons that have nothing to do with personality, but just a confused or random act.
I chose "justice" because the concept includes "mercy" and "justice" was the first choice rather than the second.
posted on July 9, 2001 11:24:24 AM new
Rancher24, he called today to ask for the phone number of a tow truck. My oldest gave it to him and called me on my cell phone to tell me. I wonder why his gf doesn't own a phone book?
He was supposed to get his car fixed earlier last week, but he has, of course, more important things to do during the day.
Heaven forbid he find a job to pay for his car. He'll be surprised at the end of the month when he finds the money tree has been uprooted and has died off.
Maybe her parents can be of assistance. She told me they think of him as a son ... soooo ... I'm hoping he'll smarten up before September. I have a feeling he won't be returning to college.
posted on July 9, 2001 11:44:57 AM new
Reamond, I had some of the same questions you did when I took the test. The test administrator, who was a friend of ours, said,"Suppose someone held a gun to your head and you had to choose between the two. Which would it be?" Of course, stated that way, I'd say "mercy" although my own inclination is toward "justice". Also, there is the factor of subjectivity since the test taker chooses and there is no one to say,"I don't think you'd actually choose that answer or act that way".
Is the person who jumps into a river to save a dog or child when the water is near freezing "brave" or "foolish"? If he considered the consequences , would he jump or does he act on adrenalin? Will his motives or knowledge of the consequences make any difference to the dog or child rescued? I'm just thinking here. On the old Myers-Briggs, I'm an INTP. Always willing to consider new options .
posted on July 9, 2001 01:03:02 PM new
If the rescurer is aware of the dangers, and acts, it is bravery. Bravery is not a mindless act. If someone unknowingly walks into a building that has been evacuated due to structual problems or a bomb is planted there- is s/he then considered brave?
What do we call someone who acts without the knowledge or some consideration of danger and risks ? We call them a fool or a lemming.
We could assume that a person need not reflect long on every situation, such as the person drowning, because hypothermia and drowning are common knowledge. The person has also a mind set that he/she is capable of the successful rescue. If a paraplegic in a wheel chair were on the river bank, are they likely to jump in to afford a rescue ?
A wise and brave person has knowledge of the risks, and his/her capabilities.
Are "suicide" missions such as in the military or terrorist suicide bombers, acts of bravery? Is it bravery when ego overrides wisdom ? Is it bravery when an individual will sacrifice themself for the safety or gain of the group ? What if we dislike the "group" or its aims, would we still consider the act brave ?
Am I brave if I pick a fight with Mike Tyson ? How about if I am paid $15 million to fight Mike Tyson ?
What if the act was coerced or the actor really didn't have a choice or we have even come to expect the act of "bravery"? As examples- a soldier drafted into the army and forced with court martial and death sentence or shot on the spot if s/he doesn't charge the machine gun nest; or a firefighter going into a burning building to rescue a child; or a parent sacrificing themself in an attempt to save their child.
Generally, when we are faced with rescue events, we haven't a lot of time to think, and we rely on social expectations and our estimations of of own capabilities whether to act or not.
In the not too distant past, men were expected to act in dangerous situations where a woman would not have been expected to act. This added pressure on the men to act, and further demeaned the "weaker" sex.
posted on July 9, 2001 01:56:16 PM new
I really feel for you rancher. This must be soooo difficult for you to do to your own son. You have to keep in mind that this is for his own good and if you don't teach him how to be responsible now, he'll end up being an irresponsible adult that you'll be looking after forever.
I DID have a job when I was going to school, but my parents were strict and I had to be home by 10:00 at night.....period. If I wasn't the doors were locked. I thought my parents were communists or something, but it paid off in the long run.
jt - I wish air conditioning wasn't so expensive for you. I wish I could send you an air conditioner in the mail!!! All I can do is send you (by air waves) a HUGE bucket of ice and hope for a cold spell!!!
posted on July 9, 2001 06:40:39 PM new
Thank you uaru, kraftdinner & everyone for your kind understanding, it truly means alot to me, and helps make me feel better....
JMHO2, doesn't it stink being in a position like this?...I'll bet the gf does have a phone book, but your son was kinda touchin' base with home, and the number was really an excuse. Hey, you have one of those money trees too? I used to, but it seems to have shriveled up and no longer produces a rich green harvest!!!....Personally, I have a hard time understanding why they don't wanna work. I don't hand over money easily (do a major chore & I'll pay ya...just put your hand out and well, I'll shake it but won't lay any green in it!) and when I was his age, I couldn't wait to get a job (been workin' since I was 16 yrs old) so I could have my OWN money....Hang in there, email me if you need support ([email protected]).
saabsister, I'll have to check out those tests. It would be quite interesting to see the results...
UPDATE: while I was writing this post, the phone rang and it was my son. He asked if he could come home & I explained (for the upteenth time) that the rules MUST be followed. He accepted that (for how long, we shall see), apologized, and came in at the time he said he would. Of course I'm no fool, and I kinda know he didn't have anywhere to go (friendls will let you crash at their house for only a short time) and he even told me that he slept on our back patio last night. I don't expect miracles or any overnight solutions, but this is certainly a step in the right direction (I'm pretty sure, if memory serves, that if my mother had thrown me out, I would have rotted on a street corner before I went home) and we will work together to hopefully get back on course....
Again, I really want to thank you all for your support. Hearing your stories and words of encouragement helped me through these difficult days....
posted on July 9, 2001 06:57:45 PM newLindaK - Here's wishing you & your husband excellent health.
Meanwhile, my biggest unresolved has to be about money. Too many bills & too little money coming in right now to pay them & have some left over for frivolous things like groceries and gasoline...
