posted on October 8, 2001 02:10:46 PM
I seem to have lost the compulsion I used to have to debunk religion...at least unless someone truly offends me. Basically, benign faith that gives comfort to those in need of it, is fine with me. Who am I to mess with something that gives happiness to others, and causes no harm (only the occasional minor irritation )to me?
Sadly, Bin Laden caused me to need the caveat, benign.
posted on October 8, 2001 02:30:44 PM
Very good gravid. I can't think of anyone as "swine" so I admit that I tend to just ignore that verse.
I hope that no one mistakes me as trying to force anyone to believe a certian way. I am vocal about my faith. Whether anyone accepts Christ or rejects Him is solely between them and God. I THINK that those who have had personal conversations with me about Christ/faith/religion, which are quite a few, would say that I am very respectful of personal choice and not at all into force. If not then I have messed up really bad somewhere and don't know it.
As for using scripture to back up a statement/opinion/position; when I use scripture as the basis for a particular opinion or position that I might hold, it is just to say "this is WHY I hold that position/opinion" and not to say "you must agree". Agreeing to disagree is fine.
My conviction may not be your conviction whether you are Christian, athiest, green, purple, or blue. Even among Christians, a sin for one may NOT be a sin for another. Some things are pretty cut and dried but others certainly are by personal conviction. Stating my conviction does not mean another's differing conviction is not the will of God for them.
God CLEARLY gave us all individual choice to accept Him or reject Him though He keeps loving and waiting.
So, please, just because I may be vocal, do not mistake it as "force". It is just 94% bubbling enthusiasm, 5% unfailing hope, 1% stupidity. If one person ever picks up their Bible and reads one word because of a curiosity that my words inspired...then it's all worth it. If not, then it's all in vain.
No one can ever know if it happens or not besides God and the individual. I know it can happen because that's how my husband was saved...by God using some other annoying person like me on a chat board.
posted on October 8, 2001 02:36:41 PM
It's not in vain for you, Terri, you obviously get a great deal out of it and find it personally rewarding. See my post, above.
posted on October 8, 2001 02:47:06 PMI can't think of anyone as "swine" so I admit that I tend to just ignore that verse.
Speaking strictly for myself, this is why my eyes glaze over whenever anyone quotes bible verses. When one picks and chooses, one can support just about any position one likes.
posted on October 8, 2001 03:17:47 PM
Yes, and then there are literally hundreds of different views on what it means to be a Christian. No individual can speak for all Christians or present the Christian view. As Terri as said, one can only speak for him/herself, which on any given issue or theological point may or may not coincidence with another's.
posted on October 8, 2001 03:54:54 PM
Can anyone here recommend a good book on comparative religion. I found a couple of books today, but they were written by a Catholic nun and I was afraid that they might be biased. I would like to understand the current differences between Islamic, Christian, Jewish and Buddhist religions.
I live near the University of Maryland...maybe I can find one there.
posted on October 8, 2001 04:06:12 PM
Helen, check out The World's Religions by Huston Smith.
The Battle for God by Karen Armstrong goes in depth about fundamentalism in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism
You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on October 8, 2001 04:07:19 PM
If you Don't feel you can trust a nun forget it there is not much chance of your trusting anyone else Sheesh.... http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
posted on October 8, 2001 04:32:10 PM
Well, Helen...Any book on comparative Religion is written by a person, just as the Bible, the Koran, the Torah were.
That person will have some affiliation with some Religion or another, therefore giving that person a slightly slanted view of religions other than his/hers...It is not that that writer goes out of his/her way to disagree; not at all. but rather that we, each individual, see OUR thruth as THE truth...We are all somewhat biased, leaning toward what we know best and understand best. It is neither wrong nor right...It simply IS. Even if the book were to be written by an Atheist, or an Agnostic, it STILL would be biased, because the thoughts would be coming from a person who does not believe in anything, or who rejescts everything. So, in the end, what is truth, but an individual interpretation of how we, singularly, see things?
The closest I ever came to seeing un-biased explanations was when I was watching the wonderful lectures of John, no, not John (senior moment )...darned, forgot (?) Campbell, a Professor in Religions and Myths, on PBS channel 60. An absolutely fascinating Gentleman, whose demise came but too quickly for my taste. I could just have watched him for ever and ever...But he was a rare person....
Sorry, I got carried away... Good luck in your quest.
Terri..If I have hurt your feelings, I apologize...Your truth is yours and yours alone, just as mine is mine and mine alone. That is something that Judaism recognizes well: the dangers of slanted views. Therefore, Judaism shys away from seeking converts..in fact, it actually discourages conversion, and the prospect convert is giving ample chances at changing his/her mind. We wait for people to come to us, rather than going out to seek them. Anyway, if I was overly critical of your approach, again, I apologize.
Edited for spelling, although it probably did not help much
I'm afraid that you misunderstood my post. I don't want you to think that I don't trust a nun. But sometimes when a writer has a strong belief in one religion, it's difficult for that writer to give a fair and unbiased coverage of another religion.
So, it wasn't that I did not trust the nun's integrity or her effort to do her best, but I was concerned about the natural tendency of anyone in her position to favor what they believe in very strongly.
As it turns out, the book that Snowyegret recommended and one of the books that I plan to buy tomorrow was written by a nun.
posted on October 8, 2001 05:26:41 PM
First my comment was posted in humor, But keep in mind that anyone who writes anything thinks anything or say anything has a strong belief of one type or another.
You are either a believer of one or the other or a strong believer in none of it..
I'll bet that you are right about that. But all that I want is a general idea of the difference between the religions.
For example, a few days ago, somebody told me something about the Islamic religion that was unbelievable to me. I just want to gather a few facts for my own information.
posted on October 8, 2001 07:00:16 PM
Yes that is hard to find someone interested in the subject enough to write a book but unbiased. Even if a person is not religeous that is a bias. I am biased. I am not even as nice as Terri - I have a big swine list I have no trouble applying that scripture toward! Several of them preachers. But I have meet others I liked and thought well of even though I disagreed with them. I had an opportunity once to speak briefly with Billy Grahm late at night when he was tired and stressed and even then and he struck me as a real gentleman and a very KIND person even though we disagree on some things.
I guess the biggest thing I have a problem with is people who will look at a statement in the Bible that is plain as can be in simple words and deny it's meaning if it does not suit their dogma.
I will give an example which will probably offend someone somewhere but here goes.
I worked with a fellow who said when it says wine in the bible it means grape juice. He did not believe in drinking and he had to interpret it that way to retain his faith.
When I pointed out that the wine Jesus made at the wedding feast was such that the director of the wedding spoke about it usually being served first as the finer wine until the people were intoxicated and then the second quality put out when they were too tipsy to tell. And that same expression was used elsewhere in the Bible to have the same meaning of intoxicated - so it was not grape juice.
He asked his church elders about that and their explaination was to forbid him to talk to me again.
posted on October 8, 2001 07:32:36 PM
Funny gravid. I have heard that too. Another one, the Baptist and dancing joke (which is an OLD OLD thing I guess). How did they deal with "Let Them Praise His Name With Dancing" (Psalm 149:3)?
These people put that old rule to SHAME:
http://www.balletmagnificat.com/
mrpotatoheadd, I did not mean that I ACTUALLY discount or ignore the verse. It's just that when I see people I can't give up hope for them because I know that God loves them. I see a person, any person, and I see a person that God loves. I have trouble with that verse. I tend to cast...am fond of fishing even. And I assure you that there are OTHER verses that I struggle with too.
With all due respect, I think this is where the trouble can start. I accept that others do not think or believe as I do. I do not have a need that they do so. I would not presume to insist that the answers I have found (or not) would be as relevant to them as they are to me.
As I am willing to allow each their own beliefs, I would ask that they allow me mine in turn. As I find that I require further guidance, I will search for it in my own way.
posted on October 9, 2001 03:40:38 AM
No problem Mr. Potato.
Hubby wasn't interested either and therefore I didn't mention it to him for about 10 years. Someone else finally mentioned what he wasn't interested in, then it interested him, and now I can speak again.
You will know that I am not talking to you, and I will know that you are not listening to me, so no problem with me and you. We are A-OK.
posted on October 9, 2001 03:53:17 AM
Shosh- it was Joeseph Campbell. He is a very good source for comparative mythology. He has several books available, I think one of the titles is The Hero With a Thousand Faces.
I'll check that one out too...Comparative Mythology does interest me. I know all about the Greeks and their gods but I don't know much about the prevailing gods of today.
posted on October 9, 2001 09:14:26 AMREAMOND
Thank you, thank you! I was so annoyed with myself all evening...You just made my day...
Mod Squad...I Have the "Email Notification" turned off...always have had it that way...Yet, this morning, I had a whole bunch of Email replies to this thread in my Outlook Express...Watzupwidat? I did turn it off again...Is there a glitch? Thanks
Gosh Shosh
Moi
[ edited by shoshanah on Oct 9, 2001 09:15 AM ]
posted on October 9, 2001 09:23:16 AM
In addition to the comparative religion books I found a very good book called
Taliban, "Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia," written by a journalist, Ahmed Rashid...published by Yale University Press, 2001.
Ahmed Rashid is a correspondent for the Far Eastern Economic Review and the Daily Telegraph reporting on Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia.
posted on October 9, 2001 09:57:15 AM
When doing a comparative study of religions [which is something I've had the pleasure of doing], it's crucial to distinguish among (a) what a particular religion's holy texts actually say (and the historical context in which they were said), (b) what the leaders/teachers of the religion say (and have said in the past), and (c) what the majority of followers actually believe and practice.
Some religions believe that the "written" word is sacred and must be adhered to absolutely. Other religions believe that the written word is a guide, but it is more important to live according to the principals that the words illustrate than the specific words themselves. Some religions believe that God has provided the sum total of all the guidance or revelation that he will ever provide, while other religions believe that "holy men" can still receive and disseminate the word of God.
It's true that the Koran contains passages that talk about waging war against unbelievers. But singling out a single verse or passage to "prove" what members of a religion "really" believe is not only ludicous, it can also be very dangerous. The Old Testament commands Jewish people to stone sinners who commit various offenses, including disrespecting a parent. When was the last time you heard of this actually happening, though? And would you automatically assume that this is what all Jews "really" believe, since it is written in the Bible?
Personally, I think the best way to do a comparative study of religions is to find out from people of each religion what they actually believe, practice, have been taught, etc. You'd be surprised how much diversity there is in beliefs and practices among members of the same religion, as well as the number of people who say "well, I know that my church teaches that doctrine, but I personally disagree with it".
Regards,
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
)to me?
I've never seen you mean...just pointed.
Good luck in your quest.
