posted on January 16, 2001 01:15:59 PM new
The Wall St Journal just ran an article on Paypal. Paypal admits that they freeze entire accounts and not just the transaction in question. The Better Business Bureau states that Paypal has more unresolved complaints than any other service and rates them unsatisfactory. Now let me get out of the way while the Paypal cheerleaders explain that the Wall St Journal and the Better Business Bureau are all part of this conspiracy against innocent Paypal. Or maybe they're accounts were restricted because they shipped to Indonesia so they're just mad at Paypal. Only Paypal is telling the truth.
posted on January 16, 2001 01:50:04 PM new
I have stated over and over again that if you put no paypal in your auctions you are going to lose sales. You first have to convince your buyres to stop using it. So I list in my auctions "paypal non credit card payments only." I also state on my site, "if you want to use paypal, here's how to do it safely."
You can't just ignore a viral marketing campaign that paid millions to hook the suckers and pretends that they will still pay $5 for referrals (when was the last time someone actually got one?) So you have to fight it with a viral campaign of your own.
By the way, your post doestn address the topic of this thread. So before you get away with changing the focus from the Wall St Journal to me (a cheap ploy used by slimy defense attorneys to protect the guilty) do you think the Wall St Journal and the Better Business Bureau are also lying and only Paypal is telling the truth? How do you explain the quotes from Paypal's Sollitto which directly contradict posts by Damon?
posted on January 16, 2001 03:47:32 PM new
Hi yisgood,
Accounts can be restricted, as I have stated in the past, if there is enough evidence to support it. The norm for a transaction in question is to freeze the transaction (making the funds unavailable to the recipient).
posted on January 16, 2001 11:14:18 PM newDamon: I reluctantly accept PayPal. I'm interested in your explanation for your company's ABYSMAL record with the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. This record appears to be shameful! Please comment.
posted on January 17, 2001 10:41:45 AM new
Damon: stop repeating that tired line. It has been disproven countless times. Go over to OTWA and give a final response to the poor guy whose account was restricted and Pp refused to identify the problem. Then you finally sent him the name of the complaining customer and he submitted his proof of UPS delivery and his account is STILL restricted. So here's a seller whose account is restricted because a customer lied and what did you tell him? He should continue to send out merchandise to the folks paying him through PP even though PP is still refusing to unlock his account! Treatment like this really makes folks want to trust Paypal.
posted on January 17, 2001 01:13:23 PM new
I have to report that the problem was solved and the guy credits Damon for handling it. Just to set the record straight, my beef is with Paypal, not Damon. He may be the only PP employee who takes his job and his company seriously. What I dont understand is why with 500 employees, the only way to get customer service from PP is to post complaints in a public forum until Damon steps in.
posted on January 21, 2001 05:53:39 PM new
yisgood, thanks so much for the great link that finally shows the truth. I have a friend that wants to sell and was going to have a paypal account until I showed him the AW message board. 500 employees and they cant answer peoples emails? They should be investigated for fraud.
posted on March 20, 2001 10:31:17 AM new
To whom it may concern,
I'm another unsatisfied customer of PayPal.Com. They have deceptively taken $2136 from my bank account. They claim that I initiated two payments for the same amount. Therefore, my bank account has been charged $2136 twice. When I called PayPal they reported that even though this money was electronically drawn from my bank account on 3/17/01 it would take at least 10 business days to return the $2136 overage. The customer service rep. reported that it takes at minimum four days to process a "ACH" transaction. I asked for a phone number for the "ACH" department. He stated that he didn't have this information. I then called Wells Fargo (the clearinghouse for PayPal) Karen in the ACH department reported that it should take one day at most for a transaction like this to occurred.
FINAL CONCLUSION: PayPal.com is holding on to my money for a week or so to draw interest at my expense. This is occurring while other checks I have written are bouncing. Needless to say, I will never use PayPal.com again.
posted on March 20, 2001 11:22:41 AM new
Hi pistolpetestevo,
I am sorry to hear of your issues. It sounds like you chose the instant ach option (it is hard for me to tell without the records), which initiates an ach withdrawal (takes 3-5 clearing business days from the issuing bank to us), but makes it available immediately by securing it against the credit card on file (which could be your debit card if you registered it as such). This hold is released, depending on the issuing bank's policies, between 7-30 days. No additional charge is made provided the ach clears.
This feature allows users immediate access to the money without having to wait for the funds to clear in.
If this seems confusing---please let me know and I will explain it in more detail.
Please feel free to contact me at [email protected] so I can check the records to make sure that this was the kind of transaction that happened.
posted on March 20, 2001 02:42:15 PM new
Never really on the band wagon but am ready to stay away from it.
I never was a cheerleader for this but I used it. In December I got frauded by a company selling goods not shipping them. I filed my complaint. I waited my 30 days, I did the followup. The company did ship the goods but total illegal as noted by my fraud report to Microsoft (they thanked me highly).
So here it is March, nothing. Out my $35.00. I even wrote to this Damon person and only reply was they were working on it.
SO now in my hundreds of EOA notices I send each week I state I do not want to take PayPal but I will if I have to.
I get many people write that ask why and I give them a blurb of my own story and a few links I have got here about how they operate. 90% thank me for the information.
Just clean out your account each nite or every couple of days like I do now.
By the way Damon, where is my $35.00 you have had for 4 months. My primary address is [email protected] (everyone else can send me money now).
Feel free to post the reply here so everyone can see it, I have nothing to hide (except my account number/credit card number).
posted on March 20, 2001 02:56:19 PM new
Hi lanefamily,
Your case was directed to the Buyer Protection Program team. I would also invite you to read the terms of the Buyer Protection Program to familiarize yourself with the recovery process. There is a claim in the system.
The email alias is [email protected] for information on the case. For proprietary reasons---I can't discuss any customer case in specifics on the boards (even if I am invited to).
posted on March 20, 2001 07:06:31 PM new
lanefamily, was this fraud from an email? I got an email a while back selling Microsoft CD's for $25.00 to $75.00. This email went to a framed site, and claimed to be using paypal. There was a form on the site for filling in your credit card info, with a pay pal button on the bottom. I dug deep into this site, noticing that the frames called up pages on different free websites, and the pay pal form went directly to an Excite email address and not pay pal.
I wrote Microsoft about this and sent them a copy mainly to let them know of this practice, but have never heard back from them.
I was afraid many would fall for this and put their names and CC numbers into the form and send it to this off the wall email address.
Wish I still had the email, but my system crashed a while back and I lost alot of stuff.
posted on March 20, 2001 09:01:07 PM new
Hello Redsun;
Nope was a valid, verified business account at PayPal. Nothing foney but the business.
My problem I found out is I paid for this transaction with funds in my account, nothing hit my credit card or bank accout so I am screwed. My charge card would have taken care of it but because the transaction never hit my card I only have PayPal to deal with.
I got a good lession for that $35.00. Normally when I see people spouting off on these message boards I take it with a grain of salt. When I see someone cursing PayPal now I take a good look cause it probably happened.
Never, ever, ever never pay someone with funds in you PayPal account. Clean that baby out first then do the transaction. Make sure the credit card you have on file with them will accept Charge BAcks againsed a service company as some has already mentioned.
For Damon, I have not read your terms of the Buyer Protection Program. Should not have to. I did a charge back one time before to my credit card, called them up, sent a letter and it was all taken care of. I think in about 45 days or less. I am sure your proceduer either gives you a year or tells me you are not responsible to give my mony back and if you do I should be lucky.
Now I feel better, for the record I have not had any other problems with PayPal just this one thing pisses me off cause it is so petty and should have been taken care of a month ago that I now have to tell the world not to use it. I can see why so many people hate PayPal if they have all been treated like this. I got one stinking e-mail from you people saying you received my complaint and it was like 10 days after I filed it! Oh one e-mail from you also when I asked telling me your working on it.
Jim Lane
Current Billpoint and Yahoo! Pay Direct supporter.
posted on March 20, 2001 10:55:37 PM new
Hi lanefamily,
I invited you to read the terms of use in the Buyer Protection issue because it explains what is covered and how cases are handled.
I do not personally handle the Buyer Protection claims and I do have to hand them off. I can cover the basics with you, but I do not know where the individual case is in regards to potential resolution (which is why I posted the information about the proper email alias).
posted on March 21, 2001 08:48:50 AM newI invited you to read the terms of use in the Buyer Protection issue because it explains what is covered and how cases are handled.
Yes indeed, lanefamily, we'd like to hear your opinion of the terms of "use".
posted on March 21, 2001 10:13:30 AM new
Damon; Which part did you want me to see?
I am not printing the whole thing here just excerpts and hopefully enough to not take it out of context.
2. Buyer Complaint Policy.
Recovery of your claim is not guaranteed – I understand that.
PayPal will seek to resolve the complaint within 30 days from the date the complaint is filed, though such time frame may be extended, if appropriate, to accommodate the investigation. – Why don’t you tell me if you want more than 30 days. Maybe if don’t tell me anything you get to keep my money longer?
17. Not a Bank. You acknowledge that (i) the Service is not a banking service (ii) Service accounts are not insured by any government agency of any nation, (iii) the Service is not subject to banking regulations and (iv) PayPal will invest in liquid assets and that interest earned on those assets will be the property of PayPal. – Maybe this one? Are you telling me I am SOL?
4. Termination. PayPal, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to terminate this Agreement, access to its website, or access to Service without notice for any reason and at any time. – Awwwww maybe this one! You hinting at something here?
Ok, I have had fun with this. I have reviewed basically your whole TOU It is clear based on my first couple inserts here I may not get my money at all but I should of had it resolved in 30 days. Ever thought about letting people know that they are either not going to get their money or you want more time? The last two were thrown in for humor and for everyone else that might read this to look at more closely and think about.
I e-mailed that address this morning so you better tell them to get a quick response to me so I have something good to report. I will report back what I get in return of this e-mail. My e-mail was simple. What is the status of my fraud case I reported back in January? Thank You Jim Lane.
I used January cause that was at the end of the 30 days that was required at the time. I noticed on March 10th you removed that restriction.
Sg52. Well they reverse blowing of wind at a high speed (Think about that one). I must admit I did as many have done when I signed up with PayPal I looked at them quickly and at the time did not take into consideration they have no regulatory overseer like banks, credit unions, etc do. I followed blindly. Now that I am all grown up and have lost $35.00 I look at them a little closer and as I said before, pay more attention to red flags thrown up about the company like the BBB filings which are just horrible.
Thanks everyone, will report back when I hear from them.
Jim
By the way if anyone wants to e-mail me off the record it is [email protected]
posted on March 21, 2001 06:11:59 PM new
And the results are in! Here is the body of the e-mail I received.
[i] Our investigation has revealed that the seller is at fault and as a result
you are due a refund. However, we regret to inform you that we were unable
to recover funds from the sellers account, as the seller's account balance
is $0. If this transaction occurred on an auction site, we encourage you to
contact that auction site, as they may provide you with insurance coverage. [/i]
So everyone this is exactly why you should never ever pay with funds in you paypal account. If I had the funds come from my credit card I could have charged back againsed PayPal but now I am sol. They make money by me using their service and I should get better protection out of them.
Jim Lane
ever notice the bold and such does not work in here.
[ edited by lanefamily on Mar 21, 2001 06:14 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2001 08:29:15 PM new
DAMON SHOULD READ HIS OWN MESSAGES.EVERY TIME SOMEONE COMPLAINS HE FINDS A WAY THAT IT'S THEIR FAULT NOT PAYPAL'S. COME ON DAMON START REALIZING THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE AREN'T WRONG IT'S PAYPAL. IT'S TIME FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A STAND AND CLOSE THEIR ACCOUNTS THERE OTHER WAYS AND THEY CAN BE FOUND.I WOULD RATHER LOSE MONEY TO CUSTOMERS THAN HAVE PAYPAL TAKE IT.
posted on April 2, 2001 09:20:55 PM new
club1man is making a number of incorrect and possibly illegal assertions about PayPal on a number of public Internet forums. The simple truth of the matter is that club1man's e-gold business attracted a large number of credit card payments that were unauthorized or disputed, and "charged back." As is standard in the payments processing industry, and in accordance with our Terms of Use, PayPal paid these "chargebacks" and then sought to hold club1man liable for these repudiated payments, as we do for any seller who has not qualified for our generous Seller Protection Policy. club1man did not qualify for this protection due to the nature of his business, has refused to abide by our Terms of Use, and has refused to accept his financial and legal responsibilities to our company. As a result, we have ceased doing business with Mr. Brodie and will pursue legal action to recover the funds he owes us. We believe he may now be seeking to further avoid the legal ramifications of his actions by spreading erroneous information about our company. This, too, will be the subject of any legal proceeding.
PayPal's 7 million members send over $8 million in nearly 200,000 separate payments through our network each day. Very few of these transactions ever result in a dispute. To help protect members against those that do, we provide a Seller Protection Policy, that holds sellers harmless against chargebacks if they take certain preventative measures. This has helped PayPal maintain one of the lowest fraud rates in the industry and to become the #1 online payment service. Thank you for your interest and support of PayPal."
[ edited by paypaldamon on Apr 3, 2001 12:55 PM ]
posted on April 3, 2001 04:33:36 AM new
Well, Damon....
I still have a huge problem with the fact that for over 2 months, my account has been restricted and I have talked to people in customer service 5 times, faxed the information 6 times to 3 different numbers and you have offered to help twice.
The results... I have never had and response from Paypal unless I call and all I have ever received then is the lame excuse that my account is being restricted at the "highest" level and the person responsible has no phone.
When my account was restricted on Jan 30th. I was told it would take 7-10 days to sort the problem out and it is now over 2 months.
I really don't care about how many satisfied customers, paypal fans, etc. that you have. This is insane that for 61 days no one and I mean no one has been willing or been able to provide me with anything more that the phrase "we are an Internet company and do business via email".
I want my MONEY. It is my money and not yours. Being an Interent company does not mean that you can hold people's cash and NEVER tell them why; and given them absolutely NO ability to determine the problem and find a solution.
Fix my (I mean your) problem, give me my money and I will happily go away and never bother you or use PayPal again!!!!
posted on April 3, 2001 03:34:34 PM new
I am willing to admit I could have been more informed of fraud (paypal could place some tips in emails they send you or on their site in an easier to find area though so this won't happen anymore...), but since I was young and new to online business, I did not know any warning signs of fraud. What is not explainable is that paypal had verified this member, and I sent them proof of my shipment, yet they did not contact me in over four months despite many calls and emails by me.
Now, I can understand my mistake for being naive, but I can not understand paypal's mistake, so here are some questions I have of Damon or Uaru (I have asked before, but I am going to make them more clear/harder for damon to make paypal look good...).
-Why does paypal ignore people's request to block money from coming into their account if it is restricted so that they won't have to deal with more chargebacks?
-Why does paypal refuse to admit that they have made mistakes dealing with their customers (however "small" percentage it may be), despite all the furious people posting their problems here on AuctionWatch? As a PR issue, it seems this is damaging to paypal's brand/company.
-Why does paypal ignore people's request to block money from coming into their account if it is restricted so that they won't have to deal with more chargebacks? (The issue of restricted accounts was dealt with earlier. Users also have the option of accepting their payment preferences.Restricted accounts can accept money so that the dispute can be resolved.)
-Why does paypal refuse to admit that they have made mistakes dealing with their customers (however "small" percentage it may be), despite all the furious people posting their problems here on AuctionWatch? As a PR issue, it seems this is damaging to paypal's brand/company.
(Correct. That is why I am out here. However, I can only comment one policy and not specific cases. Many problems do happen as a result of not understanding policy. I have also addressed the customer response issue (how mistakes can and have happened), but it is not an indicator of overall service levels or customer satisfaction. There are very few problems that are not solvable and they require cooperation by the company and the user to get resolved.)
posted on April 3, 2001 07:11:40 PM new
Hi Damon - Thanks for answering one of my questions. I have not heard an apology from PayPal personally for ignoring my emails, and saying they would call me back but never did...I just think you put too much of the emphasis on the users making mistakes, whereas I for one, and probably most people posting here, did not make any mistake, and paypal were the problem by not responding to people's emails, and making it impossible to contact anyone helpful by phone (if you are able to locate the number...).
Well, please answer my other question -- I asked why paypal does not allow a user to STOP money from going into their account. Thanks again.
I believe that I have apologized to you in the past for your customer service issues.
Well, please answer my other question -- I asked why paypal does not allow a user to STOP money from going into their account. Thanks again.
(This question was answered---money can still go into the user account and this is done so they can resolve the dispute without fear of losing sales or having their reputation tarnished---this was a concern of sellers when the accounts USED to be locked in the past).
posted on April 3, 2001 07:38:08 PM new
Hello Again,
Thank you for your apology, I just would have liked to hear it from the people I had emailed about my account.
I know you have answered that question again and again, so I can understand that you might just have skimmed my question.
What I was asking is what is the reason for the policy of accepting money with a restricted account being one sided (only paypal can choose) so that a user can not stop money from going in to their account.
The issue regarding the account restriction and why payments are still accepted was explained. In the event of a dispute, the sellers would still prefer to receive payments into their account instead of having to go back and request payment again. As was stated earlier, account restrictions are relatively rare and can be resolved quickly with the right information (and, with the exception of some of the cases that come on the boards, like yours, most are settled very quickly).
posted on April 4, 2001 10:00:16 AM new
Hi and thanks again, but you are still not understanding my question. I'll try to make it more clear. Why is it that users can not choose to stop payments (some people may want to accept all payments) while their account is restricted? I know this is the policy, but it doesn't make sence that paypal would not accept a request made to STOP payments from being accepted from someone.
