posted on September 14, 2000 05:44:31 PM new
After the steam stopped coming from my ears, I sat down and looked at the situation.
1. I was in business(whatever that means)
2. Half of my customers use PayPal
3. The fees were reasonable--especially since many of my sales total under $10 with shipping.
4. The cost of processing a check or money order is higher than PayPal's fee most of the time (see 3)
5. It saves my customers money and time.
6. They get their order faster.
7. I get enough referrals to offset some of the charges.
8. I don't have to go to the bank as often
(making nighttime deposits in three feet of snow doesn't ring my chimes).
On the downside, PayPal has largely bribed us into a false sense of security. A dear friend of mine told me years ago that he didn't like those ATM cards--he knew they would start charging fees as soon as they got us hooked on using them. Same deal here.
I can't complain because they gave a freebie for months and then say you have no right to charge me for something I use and profit by.
So after careful thought, I decided that PayPal is still a good deal and I signed on for a business account. It's not something to lose sleep over--hardly worthy of all the stink.
posted on September 14, 2000 05:46:35 PM new
I took all my money out, but I did not cancel. Nor did I sign up for a business account. If they track me down like a dog and make me pay fees or get out, I will do so at that time.
Ironically, I pay the same amount or maybe more to use Amazon's electronic payment, but that is not ON TOP of paying similar fees to Ebay. I can't afford the double-dip. I am a small time operator.
posted on September 14, 2000 05:56:37 PM new
I havent canceled paypal and I dont think I will but I wont sign up for no business account either.
I dont beleave anyone would classify my sales as business by any means and to me it sounds like paypal is still undecided as to weather they will charge all seller at all.
if they do what have I got to lose nothing cause in the year I have had it I have only had 5 transaction useing paypal not totalling over $90 in a year hardly a business but for the few who use it to pay the small amount will be worth the sales and who knows when other buyers drop paypal it might be mytrun to get them sales
since I verifide my credit card and checking when I signed up long ago makes no since now to say I dont trust them if they were gona rip off my bank they would have done it buy now then again the bank I verifide was x.com how can you rip your self off.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on September 14, 2000 05:56:57 PM new
I have never posted here before, but have been reading the posts & learning alot from the regulars here for awhile. I just found out today about PayPal's antics!!! I am revising all of my auctions that don't have bids that we won't be accepting PayPal payments anymore & after the ones end that state we do accept PP, I'll be closing my account. I've been selling on eBay for almost 3 years & did just fine before PP came along. I feel like so many others who have posted here, PayPal can't be trusted. Thank you for keeping us ALL informed.
posted on September 14, 2000 05:59:53 PM new
I am still in the indecision stage. I like Pay Pal's ease of use for buyers (me being a buyer as well as a "seller". I am thinking I'll just wait it out and see when they come after me to start collecting fees. As of right now, I "guesstimate" that over 50% of what I sell is bought through Pay Pal. It's going to have to be a decision that I mull over for awhile... in the meantime... I pull out my money after each payment from a auction winner goes through. Got lots of little checks coming now!
_________________
posted on September 14, 2000 06:01:52 PM new
I'm undecided about whether or not to drop PayPal. I surely love the convenience, both as a buyer and as a seller. But I don't like what I'm hearing from other users.
I had an interesting experience using it today to PAY for an auction. The person I was paying had opened a Premier Account specifically to accept my payment, and when I sent her the money, I got a notice that I was getting 1% cash back because I was sending money to a Premier Account. Now, 1% of $12.00 is hardly going to amount to anything, but on a big purchase it might be attractive to a buyer.
posted on September 14, 2000 06:13:31 PM new
I haven't closed my account yet and don't know if I will. Why? Simply because I am waiting to see what happens. So far everything has been based on a letter I haven't personally seen. I have personally seen how easy it is for some to only see what they want to see. Right now the forced upgrades and other paypal myths are kind of like urban legends.
It doesn't really affect me because I have listed maybe 15 auctions in the last month and 2 have paid by paypal.
I think the big difference will be seen at christmas time. Normally all I sell is stuff I have run across while shopping for my 2 kids. I have sold everything from childrens clothing, christmas ornaments, hot toys and other odd items I have run across. I was able to take credit cards last year through my parents business and it did make a big difference in my sales last year.
When it was getting down to the wire and there simply wasn't time for a money order to reach me and guarnatee their item would arrive in time, my auctions did much better just because of credit cards.
I will be watching closely in the next few weeks but really until there is an actual documented case of paypal taking money out of someones account without authorization, forcing an infrequent seller to upgrade to business or some other reason to cancel paypal, I will keep it.
posted on September 14, 2000 06:15:49 PM new
Yep, closed for PayPal payments here, also sent them a nice letter to tell them why, just in case there was any doubt.
We made PayPal and we can make another pay service just as well, they're not the only service in business. We gave them tons of free ads, that's why their customer base has risen so the last few months. The other services will probably try to do the same as they have, but till then it free for me. I can wait for a check or money order did it before PayPal and can do it again!
posted on September 14, 2000 06:32:56 PM new
I'm keeping my account.
Pride doesn't pay my bills.
------------------------------------------------------------ I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive Even the signs seemed to tell me otherwise http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/preacher4u/
posted on September 14, 2000 06:33:57 PM new
I've used PayPal since January, until personal experience causes me problems I'll continue to use it. I can only validate MY experiences, message boards are little more than writings on bathroom walls at times, I can't validate them nor do I know the person's true agenda. I've not been forced to upgrade, I've never lost a dime, and I've got 8 months of service from them. The only problem I've had was the 3 day server problem back in May, and that didn't cost me anything.
I've got a BillPoint, PayDirect, MoneyZap, eMoneyMail, PayPlace account, even I don't want to see PayPal in the monopolistic position that eBay is in. My offerings of the other pay services hasn't meet with acceptance. BillPoint I'm against, the low fees (2%)for the high volume sellers and high fees for the hobbiest (3.9%) doesn't set well with me, but I can see where high volume sellers would approve it's acceptance.
If a service isn't used then it will have few problems, but the first time one of them gets on listings in the 7 figure range I don't see a bed of roses for them either.
posted on September 14, 2000 07:10:44 PM new
My account is still open, for the moment, although I did withdraw the whole thing ($35 -- woo! I'm rich! he he).
I'm undecided as of yet whether I'm going to close it or not. PayPal is on very, very thin ice with me.
On one hand, I feel that PayPal was very weasel-y in the way they handled this, and I'm not thrilled with the idea of letting a company like that handle my money. I refused to be "verified"; now it appears that this may have been a good choice.
On the other hand, 40-50% of my bidders use PayPal. It's hard to say how many of these people would still bid if they couldn't pay by credit card. Yes, I know they could still send a check or money order, but that's sometimes not as convenient or as fast (and of course, I want to make it as easy as possible for them to spend their money!). he he
Really what it boils down to, for me, is what my buyers want (assuming there are no other significant PayPal problems). It will be interesting to see how many bidders will want to use PayPal after this. I know I'm not going to encourage it as much as I used to!
I've left my account in Premier status (after being "magically" upgraded the other day!), since I was probably going to upgrade anyway once their shopping cart became available, and because technically I am a business ... and I'm don't feel right about saying I'm not. (Hey, PayPal, that's called a "lie"!)
Until October 1 when the $.25 flat rate fees roll out, I'm going to be keeping a VERRRRRY close eye on things ... watching PayPal like a hawk, keeping track of the number of bidders that actually use it now, and trying to sell fewer very-low-dollar items so those quarter-per-transaction fees will have less of an impact.
And if things don't go exactly like I want between now and then, it'll be "Adios PayPal, and don't let the door hit you in the hiney on the way out!"
(edited for clarity and a typo)
[ edited by thedewey on Sep 14, 2000 07:14 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 07:13:48 PM new
I decide to keep Paypal upgrade and keep it as a backup account for buyers who insist on paying with paypal. I am leaning towards going with exchangepath.com as the main credit card company. They are free and take all major credit cards ( amex, visa, mastercard, discover and debit cards). They also allow you to keep money in an account. Exchangepath.com will pay you $10 for signing on and $5 for each new referral. (sounds familiar). It is free and works throughout the United States of America.
Check it out and tell me what you think:
Exchangepath.com
posted on September 14, 2000 07:37:00 PM new
I'll keep my account as long as my customers want to keep using PayPal. I'm a business, and I aim to keep my customers happy. As long as PayPal works for me, I'll continue to use it.
posted on September 14, 2000 07:55:38 PM new
Meg and Pierre must be grinning from ear to ear with this Paypal misstep...
This little upstart Paypal has been a thorn in their side since they teamed up with BILLPOINT...
Now I predict more people will switch from Paypal to Billpoint for convenience...
If sellers want to offer Credit Cards for a payment method, and are going to have to pay for it, they will probably choose Billpoint because it is already built in to the listing process at ebay.
posted on September 14, 2000 07:56:20 PM new
Well I too am done with paypal. I removed the last of my money from there last night and as soon as I verify that it is in my bank, I'm closing my account for good.
I made it with checks and money orders long before them and will make it just fine again.
I would also suggest that "verified" sellers that are closing their accounts also notify their bank that they are no longer authorized to remove anything for any reason. Just to be on the safe side.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:11:34 PM new
"There are only so many people auctions
sellers can make rich." Well put, VeryModern.
I also agree with you, the stress factor
alone - that of a company I don't trust
having their finger on my checking account -
precludes my doing business with them.
I am in the process of removing the Paypal
option and link from my auction templates. I
will still accept payments to my PERSONAL
account until payments from my current
auctions are in. I offered my customers the
Paypal option and I will honor that.
I will offer credit card payments via
Payplace. Any business I lose will be offset
by the $5 referral bonuses. And of course,
an obvious alternative is Billpoint.
Once these auctions are finished and I
receive the last payment, I will close my
Paypal account.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:15:30 PM new
I was on the fence, but Paypaldamon's long and doubletalking post on another thread has knocked me off the fence and onto the close my account side. I will leave it open until my current auctions close rather than trying to update them all, then I take my money and go away.
And just to be extra mean, I am closing my x.com account shortly thereafter as it really has not been a benefit to me.
Have a great night.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:19:17 PM new
Hi Twinsoft,
"And of course, an obvious alternative is Billpoint."
Quit tickling me in the ribs already
On line credit card services are never going to receive another dime outa me!
Billpoint ---been there done that last spring -- until I realized that my small potatoes auctions could not afford the expense.
So that is why I am heading paypal off at the pass. My customers like the convenience--it was fast for shipping---but when I started selling online it was MO and checks and I did just fine.
It's a personal decision for all--and I respect everyone's decision although I just might not agree with it. JMHO.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:55:01 PM new
Those of you who are thrilled with Yahoo's PayDirect, I highly recommend you READ the TOS well. I did. Know what I saw? "At this time, this service is free. But maybe not for long"....or something to that effect. So, this tells me that if they get going like paypal did, guess what? Wont be free for long. Only thing different is, they say it UP FRONT, close to the top, and its very visible.
posted on September 14, 2000 09:17:26 PM new
Hey, maui. How are ya?
I am waiting for my direct deposit request that I made last night to be changed from "pending" status to "completed" status. I have no auctions currently running, so the only thing I have to do is reformat my templates from the PayPal logo to the No PayPal logo.
I'm so sad to see this happen. I loved the convenience - both as a buyer and as a seller. I "verified" my account AGAIN for them just a few weeks ago - I will have to close the account to protect my bank account. I can't trust them to not dip into that.
posted on September 14, 2000 09:49:14 PM new
I never got any notice from paypal.com that they were "upgrading" my account. Suddenly I notice these small charges or fees. I questioned them by e-mail and they replied that they "upgraded my account" to one that charges fees to use. I was infuriated that this was done without my consent. I did not consider this to be an upgrade so I requested a "downgrade". They took their time doing so but eventually downgraded my account back to the free and personal one and refunded the fees that they charged me. I explained to them that they were in violation of their own user agreement by allowing an individual to use an account intended for business. They did warn me that you may only downgrade once. If you upgrade again, you will remain upgraded for the life of the account.
posted on September 14, 2000 10:48:02 PM new
I just added BidPay to my auctions this week, not on purpose just because someone sent me money that way so I thought I would sign up. I will continue to take money however winners send it to me, BidPay, PayPal, Money Orders, Checks and I even had someone send me cash. I know what I sell is not really a high price Item, and every quarter counts, but so does every bidder.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:24:48 AM new
I'm also on the fence. I will probably continue to use PayPal until they FORCE me to upgrade to a business account. Until I see some logical, reasonable definition for who should have a bus. account and who shouldn't, I won't upgrade voluntarily. Please. My total sales in a YEAR have never been over $1000, my PayPal transactions are a much smaller part of that amount, and frankly, right now I need every damn penny I can get. I will also offer other services, I've checked out some of the other payment services mentioned here on AW and will put those up as an option on future auctions. They aren't the only game in town, much as they like to think they are.
I would like to do what someone else suggested: offer PayPal ONLY on items over a certain dollar amount, at least if/when I ever upgrade to a business account and am being charged, but I wonder how often that would work in reality, with bidders who'd send the payment anyway for a $8 item despite your TOS saying "PayPal on items over $40 only please"..?? Already there are bidders who pay with paypal even though the seller isn't even a member, right? I doubt they'd observe any sort of amount rule in a TOS. <sigh>
Anyway, that's what I'm going to do/am doing for now.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:40:20 AM new
I'm still watching the message threads regarding PayPal with deeply concerned interest.
I haven't decided what to do yet, but if I have to make the decision today, my decision would be to cancel my Paypal account completely.
This decision is based on the bait and switch lie that they suckered us into. I've lost my trust in their honesty. My final decision will be based on what Paypal does to rectify or not rectify the deceit they have attempted to pull on us.
posted on September 15, 2000 04:53:48 PM new
Hello All,
I canceled paypal. Sorry paypal...I do not trust you.
Just a reminder for Paypal:
Proverbs 12:17,19,22: A good man is known by his truthfulness; a false man by Deceit and Lies.
Truth stands the test of time; lies are soon exposed.
God delights in those who keep their Promises and Abhors those who don't.
Proverbs 13:17 : An unreliable messenger can cause a lot of trouble. Reliable communication permits progress.
posted on September 15, 2000 05:19:41 PM new
I'll be keeping PayPal. The charges are reasonable, tax deductible and my customers love the convenience.
My experience with PayPal is that when I attempted to sign up as a business for our separate non-profit group, (in May) I received a letter from them stating that they weren't yet ready to accept business accounts. They also said, ..."we earn our revenue from interest on the balances in PayPal accounts, as well as from fees that we'll eventually charge to businesses. This lets us pay for our expenses so we can offer our service completely free to all consumers."
Subsequent emails have mentioned this same plan many times - to eventually charge businesses. Also, it seems logical that when a company changes hands it will re-evaluate its policies, etc.
I consider myself a business and based on my correspondence with the company I don't believe I've been misled by PayPal.
. I am thinking I'll just wait it out and see when they come after me to start collecting fees. As of right now, I "guesstimate" that over 50% of what I sell is bought through Pay Pal. It's going to have to be a decision that I mull over for awhile... in the meantime... I pull out my money after each payment from a auction winner goes through. Got lots of little checks coming now! 