posted on September 14, 2000 03:26:46 PM
To Paypal on my Personal Bank account. (it is in effect for 6 months with a one-time service charge of $15.00) If they think that they are going to get their wormy fingers into my Bank Account, they have another *think* coming. If someone insists through the Christmas Season to use PayPal to pay for something, PayPal is just going to have to take their fees off the top, and not have Carte Blanche to my Personal Account. There are times I have upwards of 5-6,000 in checking, and PayPal has proven it cannot be trusted. I also refuse to advertise them, and will add an adendum to my form EOA letter, referring people to the main thread in this forum. Also the NO PayPal logo goes into everyone of my auctions. I feel better taking some affirmative action, rather then just sitting here and letting them think that they can treat us all like a bunch of prostitues for them. IE: Go out and work for me and I will take whenever and whatever amount I want to.. (apologies to any prostitutes out there) Now I feel better having taken some positive action. I urge everyone to do the same, for in numbers there is strength. I refuse to roll over and play dead.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:00:53 PM
It seems that every other month I get a notice in the mail that my bank has changed its fees, that the tel co has added a new federal tax, that my heating oil price is going up....
1.9 % plus 0.25 for PP? Small potatoes.
Furkid, send your buyers that want to use PP over to my auctions.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:08:10 PM
Has anyone authorized PP to make withdrawals from their account? I certainly haven't, and so I'm not worried about them doing so. Since they have no authorization to debit my bank account, doing so would be considered THEFT, and I would most certainly be first in line to press charges if they do so. They asked for bank account information to verify your ID for your PayPal account, because you had to have had your ID verified in order to open an account with your bank. Granted, they've made some major PR faux pas lately, but I doubt that they're going to stoop to outright theft, especially now that they're billing what it costs them to provide their service. I'd suggest that anyone who is truly worried about this take their business elsewhere. No sense making yourself crazy over it.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:13:49 PM
pickersangel, I think furkidmom is reacting to another thread, in which the poster informs us that paypal did, indeed, withdraw funds from her checking account WITHOUT her prior approval. She had furnished the account info for the purpose of verification only.
Right, furkidmom?
PS - I think I'm safe from this latest ploy. I never did "verify" my account (and have no intentions of ever doing so). Can't help but wonder, though, if they'd try to tinker with the account they sweep my deposits into? Hmmm, I think I'll go remove that bit of information over there and switch to checks.
[ edited by fountainhouse on Sep 14, 2000 08:19 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 08:31:32 PM
You know, I'm just a buyer, not a seller. I have come to like the convenience of paypal and using my credit card.
I will still bid on an auction that takes credit cards much quicker than one that does not. I will never bid on money order only.
In fact, I'm probably not the only buyer that feels this way. I've talked to plenty of buyers who know longer want to buy stamps, write checks and wait.
We'll still bid more often, and higher, on auctions that accept credit cards, whether it's through paypal or some other service.
No matter what you say, whether you are a so-called small-time seller, a power seller or somewhere inbetween, you are all sellers when it comes to accepting my money for your items. I expect you to be a business, conducted in a business-like manner. If I wanted garage sales, I'd go to garage sales.
I'm not seeing anything here from buyers and the buyers using credit cards. I'm not seeing that it's ultimately the buyer that pays your cost of credit cards.
I am seeing that I won't bid as often without the convenience of credit cards. I just see a bunch of sellers that no longer offer convenience to their buyers.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:56:12 PM
Thanks, fountainhouse. I found the thread and read it through. That poster certainly had a legitimate complaint, and handled it appropriately by pursuing it through her bank and PayPal. It will be interesting to hear PayPal's explanation of how the verification account was debited, rather than the debit card account which she specified. My credit card is NOT linked to any bank account, so I'm still not concerned about the same thing happening in my case. I am going to check out what my "default source of funding" is, though, just in case.
BTW, Lucy, not all of us sellers are dumping PayPal. I'm willing to let the dust settle and see where things stand. If something better comes along, I'll consider it.
[ edited by pickersangel on Sep 14, 2000 09:00 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 09:33:48 PM
fountainhouse> Yes! That is correct. I have added a blurb to my auctions that are going up in the next couple of days that we will continue to ACCEPT PayPal for the convenience of our customers but due to the sudden change of events with Paypal, we do not encourage it. Also for further information to refer to the thread here in AW. (that is why I need help with the link....it is not linking so I must be doing something wrong.) I think not all sellers are aware of what is going on and only a handful of buyers, when you consider the millions of them out there. I intend to do my part to inform them of PayPals deception. Nothing more. They can still use it if they want to and I will accomodate them.
posted on September 14, 2000 10:14:10 PM
Is there a contest to see who can be the most indignant? What are the prizes, and when does the contest expire?
If a toaster you purchased doesn't meet your satisfaction do you take it back to the store and scream for hours on end? Do you keep it and scream for hours on end? If you're uncomfortable with PayPal you just click on the 'close account' button and be done with it.
I'm not using my auctions for any personal protests, but if it winds your watch go ahead. I just don't see what it has to do with selling an item.
posted on September 15, 2000 02:11:01 AM
Hello board,
I have NEVER indicated Paypal as a means of payment in ANY of my auctions.
However, I did offer it as an option if people specifically requested it.
I would have them send the money to an email address which was different than the email address I had on file with Ebay. This way, I could avoid being automatically dumped a payment, because none of these people knew my Paypal email address unless I gave it to them.
I did this because on smaller items, I would accept Paypal. On larger items, I would often ask for Money Order. I was aware of Paypal's verification system (and I was verified) and I didn't want them sticking me for large sums of money on a chargeback or a fee which I knew was forthcoming. Also, it was nice to have a "MONEY ORDER IN HAND" at my discretion so I wouldn't have to scrape up large shipping costs out of my own pocket waiting for my Paypal EFT to clear my bank.
I gather, though, that limiting Paypal use to smaller items might have been conveinent, however, this isn't what makes Paypal money. The cost of each CC transaction is way too costly and Direct Deposit EFT is as well.
I knew these clowns couldn't make any money... But who is the sucker here? Is it me or them? I never once collected a referral bonus because I never recommended Paypal to anyone. Heck, Advertising to collect referral bonuses wasn't my business, MY AUCTIONS ON EBAY ARE MY BUSINESS! I didn't have time to spam everybody and their grandmother.
As far as I see it, Paypal is the sucker here.
On one hand, they offer something for nothing, give away free money and then expect people to hang on when they start charging them. CERTAINLY THEIR PLAN ALL ALONG. Heck, if you can hook the buyers, then they will DEMAND that sellers offer it, and the sellers who have no balls also have no choice but to do it. Kind of like a street hood giving dope out for free with the full intention of HUSTLING money later as that person became addicted.
It's human nature, Paypal led some of us like lambs to the slaughter...
However, some people merely took advantage of their flawed business model. Never once advertising it, and offering it as an alternate method of payment when asked, even before auctions ended. This gave them control over how to utilize Paypal in the ways that they needed to. They made those happy that wanted Paypal and got exactly what they wanted when they needed to get it by asking for Money orders or checks at their discretion. Now that Paypal is done with free, many of these people are done with them.
Also human nature.
You see, this whole thing was doomed from the beginning, some of you bought into it, some of you didn't. For those that did, you can quit calling me a loser for being negative about Paypal, like I have been. There is no such thing as a "free lunch"... that would be socialism. For those of you who said "Why would you not use a service that pays you to use it?" really have no clue on how a business needs to operate. A true capitalist knows there is no such thing as a "free lunch", but may take advantage of any lopsided situation that he/she can in order to get ahead.
That is what this all about, really. Human nature.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill
posted on September 15, 2000 04:31:18 AM
This reminds me of why Segovia never insured his guitars. He said that he had no one to insure him against the insurers.
People always try and cover themselves for things that never happen. The banks hope there are more people like you. In fact, the reason why PayPal started with verification is for the same reason you are complaining about and why they probably shoved the biz accounts on us to help pay for adminstering it. Clue phone!
posted on September 15, 2000 05:42:22 AM
After the first paypal debacle when I found that buyers were receiving messages to use caution with
this seller, I cancelled my account with paypal and have not had a problem since. Except when they
accepted money from a buyer and kept it because I refused to register with them again!
I cannot trust this organization. With new rules every week, it's time consuming just trying to keep
up with their agenda. Probably right now, 30 to 40 percent of paypals members do not know about
the new change.
I also tried to alert other boards about this problem and found that links do not work in some cases. A reputable bank would
not make retroactive rules such as the verification deal or make any rules without informing account holders.
Of course, I always knew that "free and easy" would not last but never in my wildest imagination did
I ever forsee such coruption.
[ edited by HJW on Sep 15, 2000 05:50 AM ]
posted on September 15, 2000 07:25:03 AMUaru
I do agree with you on ONE point. I am not using the word PayPal
in my auctions....I believe the less said, the better. Why advertise
them in ANY way?
There is no contest going on here. People are genuinely frustrated
and angry. I can't imagine how anybody could possibly be a cheerleader
for this organization.
To make matters even worse, My husband, who warned me about PayPal
before I joined, is now telling me, "I told you so".
posted on September 15, 2000 09:17:45 AM
uaru> And that is exactly where the problem lies. Sitting back and saying..."well it is a cost of doing business." and "if you don't like it, go somewhere else." We all understand the cost of doing business, that is not the point. The point is , the way these costs came into being, and sitting still for first a pinch, then a jab, then a poke, and then, and then, and then.....??? Do you for one moment seriously think these charges are going to stop here? Of course they are not! They are going to escalate and keep on escalating to see how much the traffic will bare, and the BANKERS and they are running PayPal, will say something like "Due to our unusually heavy volume of traffic and business growth, we are forced to raise rates another 1% and then wait for the furor to die down and then do it again! THAT is why I am protesting now, and will continue to do so. It may not do any good, but at least I am not burying my head in the sand. (no inference made to anyone with that last statement!)
posted on September 15, 2000 09:39:12 AM
....if it continues, at some point it will no longer be cost-effective, profitable or convenient to use PayPal and some competitor will get my business. For those who believe that the rest of us (with our heads in the sand) are doomed to suffer complete failure and loss as Ebay sellers because we refuse to dump PayPal, please devote your efforts to saving yourselves, spare us your lamentations over our stupidity, blindness and iminent financial demise, and respect our right to make our own choices as we respect yours.
posted on September 15, 2000 02:04:34 PM
Agreed....I am not dumping PayPal, but simply refuse to give them unlimited FREE advertising with the auctions I run. I will tell my customers as I have that for their convenience I will offer PayPal, but I do not encourage it. Buyers are savvy enough to know that in the long run, THEY are going to bear the cost rises. Bottom line...
posted on September 16, 2000 12:39:47 AM
I do not offer Paypal in my auctions. I never have. I'm not registered with Paypal and I don't want to be.
This week I had 7 auctions close. Three of those buyers asked "Will you accept Paypal?" At least one tried to sell me on the idea. (I still don't want Paypal, by the way, but he tried really hard to convince me it was "Free to buyers and sellers."
What do I do about people who want to pay with Paypal? Well, I realize that many of them want to use Paypal because they want to get the merchandise fast. Knowing that, I just ship to them without payment. I tell them to send me a check because I don't hold checks, and that I'll be shipping tomorrow or the next day... I've never had a problem yet. I usually get my payment in a few days and all of the checks have been good. The customers have been happy because they get "Paypal-like" service.
Yeah, this is risky business. But they trust me enough to send me money without even seeing the merchandise. Why can't I trust them to send me the money if I am sending the merchandise? Trust is a two-way street.
Also, I am not the only seller on eBay who does this. I've had other sellers do the same with me without my asking them to ship early.
