Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:00:04 PM new
Baduizm That's fine for you, but SOME people DO collect exactly what you're avoiding.
You probably would want to avoid seeing "The Color Purple" and "Beloved"-- they both acknowledge a time period that most people would like to forget. But I am glad they are there, because it's a reminder to all of us that terrible things DID happen, and terrible things were done to black people.
How can you dismiss all of the clothing and styles from that era? A handkerchief on a black woman's head is not a racist image-- no more than those two movies were racist.
What about the gollywog dolls? Are they racist in your opinion? My sister in law collects them. My black sister-in-law.
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breinhold
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:09:00 PM new
helen i cant tell you how important that is to me
thank you so much
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breinhold
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:16:25 PM new
no matter how ugly how wrong how discusting preserve all past events in history small or large. the second we forget
it will repeat itself
and the day we are all politically correct
no one will know who is evil
but it will look pretty
and we wont know what hit us
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mzalez
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:22:32 PM new
If I had a CD of Old Dirty Bastard it wouldn't make it to eBay. It would go right into the trash can where it belongs. Same for all those other trash musicians.
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:32:00 PM new
Peachy
This thread started with the question of labeling items with
derogatory terms such as nigger, picaninny, niglet and coon.
I'm sure that you will agree that these words should not be
used to advertise black memorabilia. Some people on this thread
have suggested that the words are ok...justifying that by putting them
into a historical context.
Well, we all know that we can appreciate cultures and history
... movies such as you mentioned without resorting to these
offensive names.
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:38:20 PM new
breinhold
Thanks so much for your understanding. I'm
going to have to slow down!
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:40:21 PM new
yes, I understand that. I am commenting on both the use of the word when applied to people and to the use of the word applied to items for auction, both of which are being addressed in this thread.
If someone is selling the "Jolly Nigger" cast iron bank, I cannot find fault with describing it in the terms which describe it. The brand is JOlly Nigger. Can't change that, it's a fact. It's part of the history of the piece.
I can find fault with anyone using the term "Nigger" to address another person, of ANY race.
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breinhold
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posted on October 4, 2000 05:48:59 PM new
this is a serious topic with lots of feeling and emotion and i am so happy that many people of different races have touched in a message center.
we are all americans
and we just acted like it
and as a teenager would say in innocence "mean people s..k"
and thats all colors
peace
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:01:01 PM new
HJW And by the way, the reference to the movies and the images was a response to Baduizm's message -- read his/her post. Subjects often branch out here at AW. We were discussing racial images since Baduizm says she is deterred by anything that is representative of the slavery era. I was saying that other people are interested in those items, because they don't want to forget.
We have to be careful not to censor to the point that we never see anything unpleasing. Most often, the things that bother us inspire us to make sure that history will never be repeated. It's been said before, and will be said again.
[ edited by Peachy77 on Oct 4, 2000 06:05 PM ]
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:13:38 PM new
Peachy,
But my point is that we don't need a jolly
nigger bank to remember. How about a nigger
running with a watermelon. Do you think that
this is a cultural item also?
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Oct 4, 2000 06:21 PM ]
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:18:22 PM new
But who are you to decide that for someone else who wants that item?
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:23:13 PM new
Another Example..... people from time to time bring up the fact that items with Swastikas are sold on eBay. Some of the Jewish people who survived the Nazi era collect the quilts with swastikas, and other things of that nature.
If the imeages offend you, by all means, avoid them. But there are those people who want those items, who are not squeamish about finding genuine articles from the nation's ugly past. You can't decide for other people that they shouldn't need or want to have those items.
I would never have an item that said "Nigger" in my home. I would never own anything with a swastika. But I won't interfere with anyone else's pursuit of such items.
[ edited by Peachy77 on Oct 4, 2000 06:25 PM ]
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:26:38 PM new
Peachy,
I am simply stating my opinion. I believe
that derogatory names for any race should
be avoided. I would not buy or sell such
an item. In my opinion they are offensive
and tacky.
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:30:16 PM new
Peachy
How do you think that I am interfering with
ANYBODY collecting ANYTHING?
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:32:10 PM new
HJW I agree with you... I would not own or buy or sell anything with derogatory names on them. It would be tacky to me too. BUT, other people have good reasons to collect them. I won't let my opinion interfere with their right to have those things. Do you see what I'm trying to convey here?
I don't want those things, but I am not decorating anyone's house but my own with my opinions.
Censorship is a dangerous thing. When anyone decides for someone else what is and is not appropriate, trouble follows not far behind.
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:37:03 PM new
Interfering.... ?
Ok, the primary question being addressed in this thread: should the word "Nigger" be ALLOWED in auction titles and/or descriptions?
Are you saying "No, never, not for any reason." ?
Because I respectfully disagree. Something with a brand name should have a title providing that information, even if the brand name is "Jolly Nigger". Some people are looking for that brand, authentic pieces.
Geez, I have used the N-word more tonight than in my entire life.
edited because I can't spell when I am typing....
[ edited by Peachy77 on Oct 4, 2000 06:38 PM ]
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:38:08 PM new
Peachy,
I agree with you 100% about censorship!
I don't believe that anything under the sun
should be censored.
But there is a difference in using a little
discretion and censorship.
Helen
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:41:50 PM new
Helen I agree with you... as long as it's left up to the seller's discretion. Discretion on the part of the seller, and not censorship on the part of eBay.
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HJW
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posted on October 4, 2000 06:43:17 PM new
The primary question was how do you
feel about the word nigger in an
auction description. That is what I have
answered as clearly as I can.
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Oct 4, 2000 06:44 PM ]
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networker67
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posted on October 4, 2000 07:23:24 PM new
First and foremost the item isn't a Jolly (N word) the image is called Jolly (N word). And since the image was created to be insulting and proport stupid false sterotypes. It isn't proper for an item title. However I have no objections to it being in the item description. However since I am a member of the ACL.
I realize that a person has right in America to say pretty darn well what they please. What gets me about the all the n-words in auction titles and descriptions is the fact that ebay suspended an account for using f@@@ (exactly like that in a post). However the user who told me an African-American Male to get to the back of the bus is a remember in good standing.
So all of this goes to the heart that just maybe ebay is run by some racist individuals that as long as images, post, words, pictures or items don't offend whites they don't care. I hate to say that and hope it isn't true but they seem to have this very questionable position on issues that might boarder on insulting to Americans of African Descent. Their allowing of the N=word is just another example of that position. All of this from a site that is considering stopping Adult Items Auctions. But allow the open and very inappropriate misuse of the n word.
F. Lee Bailey's gift to politcal correctness the n-word
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 08:04:51 PM new
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Peachy77
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posted on October 4, 2000 08:06:27 PM new
Jolly Ni**** is a brand.
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sonsie
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posted on October 4, 2000 08:18:41 PM new
Somebody upstream mentioned "The Nigger of the Narcissus," which is the title of a novel by Joseph Conrad, one of the finest writers of the past 200 years. How could anybody be offended if that book were sold on eBay, and its proper title were used in the auction listing?
I recently made a killing on a large box of old sheet music, dating back to before 1890. I found several pieces in there that were written or performed by very well known black minstrel singers and vaudeville artists (who toured on the black circuit). One of them actually has "Coon" in the title, and one of the other ones is "Dark Town Strutters Ball," a song many of us remember (especially if we took dance lessons at a certain young age). These items are very collectible, and NOT by racist whites...but by black people looking to preserve parts of their culture. Why is it wrong for me to have them in the house, or sell them, or use their correct titles in the auction description? I admit, those words make me cringe, but they are accurate and correct for the pieces they describe.
(I won't even go into the 1920s-era "Chinese" music that I also found in this batch...with equally offensive titles.)
I think it is fairly easy to discern when these words are being used as a racist statement and when they are properly used as descriptors for some item that actually IS that thing, or is named in that way. As with the swastika quilt discussion of a couple of months ago, some people seem to be overreacting to a WORD and not seeing the context in which it is used.
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HJW
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posted on October 5, 2000 06:14:17 AM new
sonsie,
Generally, I just sell books. I sold the book that you mentioned by Conrad, The Nigger of
the Narcissus and the only title necessary was "Joseph Conrad, Narcissus."
And, I am sure that I could sell your music without including the
word coon or nigger.
I have a strong aversion to the use of these offensive descriptions. Although I am white, I grew up in Mississippi and
saw first hand the injustice and racial bigotry that contributes
to the development of objects such as the jolly nigger bank etc.
Black Americana feeds on racism. That is the bottom line.
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macandjan
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posted on October 5, 2000 07:40:28 AM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 3, 2000 07:08 PM ]
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sonsie
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posted on October 5, 2000 09:37:58 AM new
HJW, does it offend you to see "The Nigger of the Narcissus" written out in an encyclopedia or reader's reference work? When you sold the book, did you ink the word "Nigger" out on the cover and title page? Would you want an editor to rephrase the title as "The N***** of the Narcissus" on a list of Conrad's works? If not, why not? And if not, why should eBay titles be treated any differently?
I am not unfamiliar with racism; I spent several years living and traveling in the Deep South as a young girl, back when segregation and separate "whites only" facilities were the law. I still believe in using the correct words in the proper context. I think putting a fig leaf on Michelangelo's David is ridiculous, and that pretending that Conrad's classic doesn't have the word "nigger" in it is equally silly.
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Baduizm
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posted on October 5, 2000 10:12:30 AM new
Peachy, as far as I'm concerned, people can buy and collect what they like as long it's legal. But I personally do not have a desire to collect items that have racist connotations. For those who do, that's their conscious, not mine.
I could care less if "Jolly N*****" is a brand or not. I ain't gonna buy something labeled that way on eBay or any other venue and will avoid sellers who offer those kinds of items. They will not get my money. Got that?
Regarding "The Color Purple" and "Beloved," both were much better written novels about the African-American experience than the overwrought celluiod versions that made it to the big screen.
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Baduizm
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posted on October 5, 2000 10:13:54 AM new
One more thing, if I have to explain what a "handkerchief head" is...ah, never mind.
Badu
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surrrfurtom
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posted on October 5, 2000 10:18:28 AM new
Whatever happened to the old saying "Sticks and stones, etc. but names will never hurt me"? Seems to me society today is just running around looking for a reason to be offended. Self appointed PC police are itchin' to get in somebody's face or have another rule or law made, or change history based on oversensitivity. This stuff feeds on itself.
Just curious can we still call a spade a spade or call a hoe a hoe is that now considered racist?
Lighten up folks. You can call me anything you want except as they say late for dinner.
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HJW
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posted on October 5, 2000 10:34:08 AM new
Sonsie,
Yes, the word nigger offends me. And furthermore it is not a "silly" issue.
With the connotation of the word today, it would also offend Conrad.
People who read Conrad know this.
What does a fig leaf on Michelangelo's David have to do with this
topic? I am an artist and have painted the genitalia of many men.
I have no problem with that.
Instead of a cover up, I am advocating a clean up and a little
sensitivity training.
Knowing how the word is used today, Conrad
would probably thank me if I omitted it from
the title. He would not consider it "Silly".
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