posted on October 26, 2000 01:22:13 PM new
Planned Parenthood is Pro-Abortion. I don't believe in euphemisms. They hide ugly things behind palatable words.
Now, come to think of it, maybe putting it up front, would allow me the opportunity to
steer clear of this despicable situation.
Doing business with people like ourselves---now now. That is an attempt to bring forth all the buzz words--religious intolerance, racism---NOT. I am simply saying I will not knowingly give money for infanticide. Enough of my tax dollars goes to this.
But, if the info is correct, the seller did warn prospective buyers.
posted on October 26, 2000 01:25:10 PM new
Sorry for the delay, and sorry if it seemed I was referring to a currently existing auction. Auctions do exist which require somewhat analogous things, but I don't believe there are any which contain the precise term being discussed. That's why I picked it for an example for discussion.
I believe that any requirement to fill in a page at, for example, Andale, is closely analogous. Bidder is demanded, as a term of the transaction, to give something of value to Andale. Bidder may or may not have an objection to this donation, but whatever objection buyer might have is not considered.
I don't believe that either Andale or Planned Parenthood run afoul of eBay's rule against advertising other sites; for what it's worth, the link itself need not appear in the auction, but rather in the EOA email. The auction merely contains the demand.
This is in fact may be a viable approach to achieving some goals. Consider it a bit differently. Let's say the demand was for a $100 donation...and the item was worth, say, $200. Agreed, buyers who are on the "other side" would be repulsed, but surely someone on "seller's side" would find the transaction tempting at, say, $75. Would we predict that eBay would shut down the auction simply because some were repulsed?
posted on October 26, 2000 02:37:14 PM new
Regarding the link - on the closed topic of selling only to Christians - that is stupid, sell to the unbelievers and the pro-abortionists and take their money and put it to work for the Lord! Sound smart to me!
posted on October 26, 2000 02:42:57 PM new
News flash:
Planned Parenthood is not centered around abortion. They offer birth control and counseling about parenthood, and they explain choices and the repercussions of those choices.
I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion." Just because I wouldn't choose to have an abortion doesn't mean that I'd give up the choice.
As for the auction... how bizarre. But people do strange things.
Edited because "bizarre" contains a "z."
[ edited by RainyBear on Oct 26, 2000 02:44 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 03:05:48 PM new
If you perform or advocate abortions--you are pro-abortion. Just because you don't do it in every instance, does not change that fact.
Now, certainly, the medical people making fortunes from abortions are pro-abortion!!!!
If I counselled someone and told them they had a choice and could kill, rob, etc, I told them there were other alternatives, but since it was their choice, if they chose to do so, I would facilitate the act--I am pro-whatever. It something that cannot be sanitized.
posted on October 26, 2000 03:41:12 PM new
Now folks, you all know we could argue the abortion/Planned Parenthood issue until Paypal gets its act together and never agree. I think we're getting distracted by the "charity" named in sg52's hypothetical (which I think should have been noted as such - geez, sg, couldn't you just say "a particular charity"?).
Anyway, back to the matter at hand, which isn't whether the intended recipient of the "donation" is Planned Parenthood, ActUp, or any particular political campaign, but whether ebay rules permit a seller to REQUIRE, as a condition of sale, that a bidder make an additional payment (i.e., not part of the bid itself) other than reasonable shipping/handling fees to ANY third party.
Taken in that light, my guess is that ebay would consider it fee avoidance. The only possible "third party" parallel I can think of is passing on CC fees - but that's specifically forbidden by law in some jurisdictions, and in any case the bidder wouldn't write out a separate check to e.g. Billpoint for those fees, but would add it in to the amount he owed the seller, who would then pass that portion on to Billpoint.
So such an idea would not only (based on the posts here) run the risk of alienating bidders; it'd probably run afoul of ebay. And it's so "gray area" that the seller's auctions would probably get reviewed by somebody in the SafeHarbor alphabet, which is a really, really scary thought.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Oct 26, 2000 03:41 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 04:41:30 PM new
HCQ
If an auction is run by a genuine charity that is certainly a non-issue. Some charities I wouldn't support like Rosie.
If a seller stipulates that a portion of the payment be made to someone other than the seller, I do take issue with that. (What a seller does with their green is none of my biz, but I avoid buying from those selling stuff that's for the immature audience). How do I know what it is actually being used for--it might be wholly fraudulent or it might be like the Planned Murderhood deal.
As to the organization itself, it entirely centers its efforts around abortion, the rest is a slick facade, the founder pushed for the genocide of blacks, and if anyone thinks they get a real "choice" at such a clinic, you're right: they do have more than one way to put your human legacy in a bucket.
If they explained the repercussions of abortion truthfully, abortion would end in America.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:56:43 PM new
mballai: Just a FYI, for every anti Planned Parenthood post you make Im sending 5 bucks to my local Planned Parenthood (I donate there anyway, but this month it will be more).
So far you've made them an extra $15. Keep at it, I know they will appreciate the money.
posted on October 26, 2000 07:08:10 PM new
lotsafuzz
Making a post facto threatning comment is typical of someone who doesn't have an argument. It's your money; you are responsible for your own actions, you cannot blame me or impute your own evil actions on me for what you do. You stated that you have supported their work, so the blood of innocents is already on your hands before you send in another dime.
You might silence me(maybe)but the blood of millions of babies will not be silenced in the real Supreme Court.
posted on October 26, 2000 07:20:20 PM new
Thanks nnt. Appreciate it.
Hey ever wonder how the pro-"choice" crowd always blabbers at pro-lifers that we don't provide for unwed moms to have babies?
We do and have done so for decades.
But they don't ever support and pay for that particular "choice." Why??? My guess is that it interferes with the much higher and faster profit that comes from stabbing a baby's head and sucking its brains out.
[ edited by mballai on Oct 26, 2000 07:52 PM ]
[ edited by mballai on Oct 26, 2000 07:57 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 07:41:09 PM new
Hellloooooo...tapping monitor screen with paw to get attention...Is this the Ebay Outlook or the AW Smackdown?
Exactly what does all this hissing and spitting about Planned Parenthood have to do with a question being asked about a hypothetical seller's TOS? As far as I can see, how one feels about abortions is irrelevant to the issue of whether or not a seller should insist that a winning bidder contribute an extra amount to the charity of the seller's choice.
So-if I saw that a seller insisted I contribute a set amount on top of my winning bid, I'd hit back so fast I'd probably lock up the computer. It wouldn't matter if the charity supported something I couldn't countenance or a cause I held dear. I wouldn't bid because for me, it would be the principle.
posted on October 26, 2000 07:59:45 PM new
hey shadowcat (I hope I did your name correctly. I quite often don't, but it is not intentional) You are right-it really doesn't have anything to do with the auction.
It is just my new end-of-old-year resolution that I will speak out against this outrage each and every time I can. I am taking a page from the playbook of the other side. Now I don't expect that it will change the mind of anyone on the other side. Perhaps, it will give someone who believes as I do the courage to speak out anywhere there is an opportunity. We have been bullied into silence for far too long.
posted on October 26, 2000 08:18:26 PM newNnt: While I respect your desire to speak out against anything, it isn't germane to the topic at hand and really muddies the waters of the discussion.
Now if the topic had been "Planned Parenthood-Your opinions", that would be a whole 'nother thing.
posted on October 26, 2000 08:23:13 PM new
Hello Everyone,
Please stick with the topic. If you wish to discuss the subject of planned parenthood please do it in the Round Table.
I have probably let this thread stray too far in the hopes that it would get back on track itself, with your help of course. If it doesn't get back on track, I will not hesitate to lock it.
posted on October 26, 2000 08:33:05 PM new
if the donation would stop some of the stupid people who have nothing better to do than talk on chat boards and complain about everything! I'd do it in a heartbeat! by the ay, I'm a moderate republican, childless by choice and think some of y'all should really be too!
posted on October 26, 2000 09:26:29 PM new
I think this thread is now degenerating into subtle insults. Too bad people can't disagree and stay logical even if they stray from the topic slightly. Of course, some actions are utterly indefensible and logic is abandoned as a result.
I do hope eBay develops a more consistent policy. Auctions like this one should be shutdown regardless of their recipient.
Lotsafuzz
I'd keep this thread going just to drive you broke but I don't think the moderator would agree.
[ edited by mballai on Oct 26, 2000 09:35 PM ]
[ edited by mballai on Oct 26, 2000 09:36 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 10:24:55 PM new
Yes we contribute to some things like leader dogs, But if I see an auction strong arming me to contribute I an OUT of there even if I approve of the cause.
As an aside - I think abortion is like eating meat - a lot of people would not be doing it if it was not neatly packaged and plastic wrapped so to speak. Reality can be ugly. That's why so many people avoid it at all costs. When's the last time your "processed"
your own hamburger?
posted on October 27, 2000 02:17:15 AM new
I have seen just such an auction on Ebay. It was awhile back actually. The auction in question was an auction for an antique needlework book (well, actually, a reproduction of one.) It was a fundraiser auction but was not listed as a charity auction, at least I don't think that it was. In the seller's TOS was a note that a donation from the buyer had to be made to some lace museum that the seller was trying to raise money for. The seller was collecting the money along with the final bid & S&H charges, so she was keeping track. I don't remember if she stated a minimum donation amount, but I think it was like $5.00 or something. While I was not at all offended by this, I didn't bid on the auction.
However, that's a little different than the auction TOS that were origianlly proposed at the beginning of this thread....in the case of the auction I saw, no one who was interested in the item should have been morally or politically offended by the request, as it was a cause that should appeal to the audience for the material that was being sold in the auction, and not a controversial cause in any way that I can think of.
Dying to add my opinion about PP, but I'll keep quiet to make Joice happy.
posted on October 27, 2000 02:19:52 AM new
hey, breakthrough idea here...shouldn't they just list the auction as a charity auction if the intent is to raise money for a specific charity?
Since Ebay allows for that option it seems ridiculous that any seller would have such TOS, doesn't it? But, it does happen...
posted on October 27, 2000 04:37:31 AM newCagrrl - Exactly - unless, of course, the seller's intent is to weed out "undesirable" bidders (- those who differ philosophially. Personally, I find the best approach to those who object to me or my politics is to do as much business with them as possible - show them what a wonderful person I am (not to mention beneficial to their pocketbook). They warm up before they know what's happening
sg52 - $5 isn't "fee avoidance"? Then if a seller tacks a $5 "handling fee" onto his shipping charges, ebay won't mind? When, do you suggest, DOES "it" become fee avoidance? At $7.50? $10? $25? $100? If the seller runs 20 auctions a week with these terms, he IS avoiding fees on $100 in revenues. Whether ebay might do anything if this were one auction avoiding fees on $5 is another question....but cumulatively, I can see ebay taking action. Moreover, all it takes is one annoyed potential bidder - somebody on the other side of a particular political fence - to send one email to SafeHarbor and get the right CSR. Maybe the seller's hoping for that, in some weird effort to be a martyr to whatever cause he espouses.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Oct 27, 2000 05:09 AM ]
