posted on October 27, 2000 08:27:20 PM
I am strictly a seller. If I was a buyer, and I was contacted by a bottomfeeder, I honestly have to say that I'd buy, if the price was right and I did what I could do to feel safe in sending the money.
But those who relish in such behavior are being shortsighted. This will in the long run lead to less quality and desirable items being placed on Ebay in legitimate auctions. Hypothetically, you could have one sucker listing an item, and hundreds of other sellers just go ahead and harvest the e-mail addresses of the bidders. Is this what you want?
I wonder about those who give advice to bottomfeeders on ways to evade Ebay. Would you also advise a shoplifter on those zones in a store that don't have adequate cameras. Perhaps you're the same people that told your classmates it was ok to cheat when you saw the teacher turn their head. Are you so shortsighted that you don't see the consequences that all of us pay for this in the end. Again, the question is posed and I await a good answer....WHY HAVE E-MAILS PUBLIC?
[ edited by pointy on Oct 27, 2000 08:30 PM ]
posted on October 27, 2000 08:57:13 PMCleverGirl: On a different tack, I'm surprised (didn't realize) that it's such a no-no to advertise your own auction of the same item to another sellers' underbidders (on closed auctions). Other than the spam issue, why is it so bad? At least ebay is getting its fees that way.
The original seller may have more of the item; if the underbidders from that auction buy outside of eBay, they wouldn't have any reason to bid on the original seller's next auction.
But, note that in this case, the person who offered the item to another seller's underbidders did not have his item up for auction. Therefore, the offerer was engaging in fee avoidance, spam, and the "unwritten rule" of not bottomfishing other sellers' bidders. If the person who had received the offer complained to eBay - or if the original seller had found out about it and informed eBay - the offerer would have been warned if it was the first time; suspended if they had been warned previously.
magazine_guy: The emails you posted are about offering items to your OWN underbidders. As I said, there are differing opinions, even within eBay itself, as to whether they should encourage that any longer, given that the buyer has no protection and neither can leave feedback.
posted on October 28, 2000 08:39:03 AM
I too, have "bottom fed" -- although not on a crustacean level. I've offered several items to nonhighbidders of others auctions -- items that may be the same as the auction item, or of similar interest. Although it obviously avoids paying Ebay fees, it saves me a lot of time in listing, scanning & loading a pic, etc. Also, I ask LESS than I know the item often goes for, simply because of the time & effort it saves me. I'd say about 80% of the offers are accepted -- so I don't think the majority of people are vehemently opposed to it.
posted on October 28, 2000 09:15:24 AM
I have to say, I regularly offer items for sale to the next highest bidder on the CLOSED auctions of others and almost always have my offer accepted. BUT, I always offer it at least 15% below what the winning bidder paid AND I always ship for the exact postage cost or if the item went for an exorbitant amount, I offer free shipping. The items are generally hard to find ones and I honestly don't see the problem. The high bidder and the seller are happy, the second highest bidder is happy and I'm happy. Ebay has their fees.
The only problem I could see is if the high bidder turned out to be a deadbeat and the seller had to relist, but in this case the seller could file for FVF credit.
Edited for clarity.
[ edited by london4 on Oct 28, 2000 09:43 AM ]
posted on October 28, 2000 09:53:27 AM
So what Zazzie? Some of US bidders appreciate getting an email for some item we have been overbid on. I don't belong to that seller!
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on October 28, 2000 09:54:22 AM
Uh oh, I just may be one of those people you are taking pot shots at
Here is what I do, feel free to slam me. I really did not feel I was doing anything that would violate another seller on eBay. But maybe I am incorrect.
Since I buy and sell on eBay I always check both open and closed auctions for items to purchase and current market values on items I have to sell. When I come across a recently sold item that I have in stock I sometimes contact bidders to see if they are interested in purchasing my item. I generally offer the item at closing price or at their bid price. Depends on the item. I never contact the winning bidder, nor do I contact any bidders before the close of an auction. Also, anyone purchasing anything from me gets the same respect and guarantees they would get should they purchase it from me on an eBay auction.
I have been buy and selling on eBay since 1997. I have listed a lot of items that have sold, and a lot that have not. Hence, I have paid eBay a fair amount of change. Not to mention all the items I have bought! So I don't feel I am cheating eBay out of fees, especially since it was probably an item I have already listed and was not sold.
So my point is, am I violating the sellers code of ethics? I am curious as I do not wish to step on peoples toes on eBay. It is a great community and I enjoy being a part of it.
posted on October 28, 2000 10:12:47 AMwps, I am contacted all the time by other sellers if I am outbid. If their fb is good, I am thrilled they contacted me and I buy the item. I have to say, the items I buy are collectible, so if I am outbid, it may be weeks or months, if ever before I see another. If I don't buy it, someone else will.
ebay has a choice between after auction sales or shill bidding, which is what will happen if emails and/or userids are made private. So far they've chosen the after auction as the lesser of two evils.
posted on October 28, 2000 10:35:23 AM
Spam is UNWANTED unsolicited email.
And I often contact sellers and offer buy stuff from them without involving ebay---AND I IMAGINE ONE COULD HARDLY CALL THAT SPAM...so I figure it is fine to offer an item to a buyer.
Seller who get uptight and proprietorial about customers might ask their customers if they enjoy being treated in such a way.
posted on October 28, 2000 10:38:04 AM
I have found the same thing to be true. It takes a lot of time scouring the auctions for items you are looking for. I also make requests to some sellers that they put me on a mailing list when they have new items to sell. Saves me a lot of time. I also do the same for those that make that request of me. Does this defeat eBay as well? Also, who is to say that someone you contact was not already a previous customer? I have had may multiple and repeat sales.
posted on October 28, 2000 10:45:51 AMSo my point is, am I violating the sellers code of ethics?
Yes. As well as the spirit of eBay.
Ask the people who use private auctions in the regular eBay area why they have been forced to do so.
Although it obviously avoids paying Ebay fees, it saves me a lot of time in listing, scanning & loading a pic, etc.
I'm sure that the seller who spent the time listing, scanning, loading a pic, etc., appreciates that he was able to help you out with YOUR sale.
The only problem I could see is if the high bidder turned out to be a deadbeat and the seller had to relist, but in this case the seller could file for FVF credit.
So, instead of being able to actually sell the item to his own underbidder if his high bidder defaults, they can recover a few pennies for their trouble and can relist it. And if some "seller" who comes along who rationalizes that it's okay to siphon bidders during an OPEN auction, then the original seller shouldn't be upset about this, either.
Ya'll continue to go ahead and bottomfeed for now, because eventually eBay will implement something to stop it. As I've said before, just because you "can" do something due to a software glitch (in this case, being able to directly mail people), doesn't mean it's "right" to do it.
posted on October 28, 2000 12:09:28 PMI am curious Glenda, what the spirit of ebay is?
That it's an auction, that community members don't take unfair advantage of other's people's work in putting up an auction, that it's not a place intended to facilitate spam, etc.
and it is my experience that private auctions are self-defeating.
Of course they are! But to many of the people who run them, it's a choice between two evils. Take a look at why some sellers have chosen to use private auctions (slightly edited for the CG's):
At the request of many bidders, we have decided to conduct our sales through the Private Auction option. This decision is the direct result of the numerous spam/scam artists that are victimizing many honest Ebay bidders and sellers. Their most common lure is to bait you with offers of similar items at cheaper cost. If this were true why aren't they offering their items at auction on Ebay?
posted on October 28, 2000 12:48:29 PM
Well said GLENDA!!!
..
It's a fact, it's against Ebay policy to bottomfeed. Those that do it on a regular basis are lazy pondscum. Just looking for an easy way, instead of a working way. Ebay will change eventually, the e-mails will be private, and bottomfeeders will have to find another angle around the system. These sorts do seem to prefer to find these angles, instead of trying to make an honest buck.
To the bidders who like to get solicited this way, you'll still have the goods available, from honest sellers.
posted on October 28, 2000 01:25:24 PM
For those who wish for private e-mails, be careful what you wish for, my prediction is that the incidence of shilling will skyrocket.
posted on October 28, 2000 01:41:55 PM
Okay, now I am really going to tick someone off. This spam business has really gotten out of hand. I have heard grips for years over this and it always amazes me. Now we have the government stepping in over such a small issue. I have been on the net since around 1991, (anyone remember the "command line" Internet?) and online since 1988. I have gotten *tons* of unsolicited emails over the years, I mean *tons*. I get roughly 30-40 emails a day of regular mail, and probably 10-20 a day in spams. Its not that big a deal for me, but who am I. That is what filters are for. And if some slip by that, that is what the delete key is for.
As for people trying to sell me items that interest me, bottom feeders or not, I will gladly take the email. I have gotten some really good deals off of unsolicited emails.
I have bigger problems in life than thrashing about over spams, life it to short.
Lets worry more about the cons, cheats, thieves, hackers, sex offenders, and just plain nasty people out there.
posted on October 28, 2000 02:01:29 PMLondon4: For those who wish for private e-mails, be careful what you wish for, my prediction is that the incidence of shilling will skyrocket.
Any shiller with half a brain cell isn't going to have all his shilling accounts at the same ISP, so it doesn't do much to look at email addys. And, eBay just added that "seller" column to the Bidder Search - that makes it much easier to see if a particular userid is bidding only on one seller's id.
posted on October 28, 2000 02:04:15 PM
wpc, I agree completely. It's not rocket science to figure out that if someone has been bidding on an item and has just lost the auction, they might be interested in the identical item for less money. I don't think it is appropriate to email a bidder on an open auction, but once it's closed, why not? The seller and high bidder are already happy, what's wrong with two more people being made happy? There's more to worry about in life than receiving an email from someone wanting to sell you something that you've already indicated you would like to have.
If we must talk about the spirit of eBay...let's tell the truth. It's commerce...plain and simple. Ebay cares about me and my bottom line...about as much as I care about eBay's. When I've done business with someone...they become MY customer. I will then work my will upon them, as I desire...
All the rest has to do with my own integrity...no one else's. Unwritten rules, are just that...open to interpretation.
posted on October 28, 2000 03:40:46 PM
I can't believe this thread is still going and that some folks think it's ok not only to contact another seller's bidders, but to give it a cute little euphamism like 'bottom feeding'. ANY unsolicited commercial email is SPAM by definition. DUH DUH DUH!!! My 8 year old knows that!!!
Unsolicited = the recipient didn't contact you first or ask you for what you're emailing them in any way.
Commercial = you are a vendor and your email is with the strict intent of selling something.
Really folks, is it that hard to figure out?
Secondly, yes, it is against eBay policy to contact another seller's bidders whether the auction is over, whether you have an amazing deal, whether the moon is in the 7th house, whether you can tell Rumpelstiltskin his name... it is AGAINST EBAY POLICY! Again, DUH!
If you bid on something and get outbid, you get an EOA from eBay. At the end of that EOA, it clearly states: You may be contacted by another seller trying to sell you the same product. This is against eBay policy.
If you try really really hard, you can rationalize anything in your own mind...that's why the insanity plea is so popular, lol
posted on October 28, 2000 03:42:05 PM
pointy wrote:
"WHY HAVE EMAILS PUBLIC?"
It's simple. Because people choose to have emails public. The tool exists right now to hide emails. It's called having private auctions. Perfectly legal and very effective. It's any sellers option to use this feature.
My question is: Why should everyone be forced to hide email when we already have a choice to do whatever we want?
I'll decide for myself which way I want to go. Options are a good thing. This whole hidden email thing is simply a case of some sellers trying to force their way of thinking onto all the rest of us. It's already an option. If you want it, use it but don't try to force it on everyone.
posted on October 28, 2000 03:50:48 PMkiheicat: The cute little euphemism of "bottomfeeding" was created by the sellers who it was happening to, not the ones who were doing it. Being called a bottomfeeder is not a compliment.
Specifically, the relevant text in the Outbid Notice says:
"Safety tip: now that you're no longer the high bidder, you may be contacted by the seller or another person to sell you a similar item without going through eBay. Because this is against eBay rules and we cannot track such transactions, you would not be eligible for eBay's services that protect buyers, such as insurance or mediation."
posted on October 28, 2000 04:00:39 PM
Yup...it is my business. Been going on for years, in the guise of personal input. Giant pain in the tush. 12...you haven't been around long enough to see it...ask some friends.
posted on October 28, 2000 04:01:26 PMGlenda"Safety tip: now that you're no longer the high bidder, you may be contacted by the seller or another person to sell you a similar item without going through eBay. Because this is against eBay rules and we cannot track such transactions, you would not be eligible for eBay's services that protect buyers, such as insurance or mediation."
Hummm, I am missing something. I just checked a EOA I got from eBay. Read it 3 times and I don't see that notice. Do they send more than 1 type of EOA?
