posted on October 29, 2000 09:18:47 AM new
Lizardsally I see nothing wrong with that. Most of the craft books on ebay go higher than the regular price. I wanted a book and I started to bid then I decided to see how much the book really costs so I went to Barnes and Noble and found the price, Barnes and noble and Amazon were out of the book since it was out of print but I did a search of the book and found one cheaper than on ebay. I guess we don't even think of looking elsewhere but sometimes it pays. Also you talked about getting an email that said Dear ebay member, does ebay sell our email addresses because I can't see anyone employing someone to just get email addresses off of ebay. If there is a job like that I would like to have it. Great thread........
posted on October 29, 2000 09:21:24 AM newOK, how about if we take a vote:
Sorry, I still don't get it. I can understand the policy violation philosophy, but there seems to be a much bigger issue here, morality. Everyone violates rules/laws/policies etc. Have you ever exceeded the speed limit, ate a grape at the store, opened a pack of gum at the register just before paying for it, taken an ink pen from work? All of these are violations of Rules/Laws/Policies. But a *very* large portion of society does these things and does them frequently.
So if it is more of a morality issue, then why? Does bottom-feeding take away from a seller's sales, or does it just annoy a seller because someone else has contacted their customer? Are all people who "bottom-feed" lumped into the same group? I am really curious about these issues.
Is spam really an issue, or just a coverup for something else. We all get spam, either by email or snail mail, and have for as long as we have had mail. Do we complain when we get a sales paper in the mail?
Again, I don't think policy or spam is the heart of the issue. So if not, what is?
posted on October 29, 2000 09:24:01 AM new
lizardsally, yes, you can forward that email to SafeHarbor if you want to.
And whoever said that eBay does not punish someone who emails another sellers bidders, that is hogwash. They can and do.
You know, this whole thing boils down to deciding which policy to follow and which policy to thumb your nose at. Do you think that shoplifting is ok because it's just a 'little' harmless crime? Do you steal your neighbor's newspaper because it's just a 'little' unethical? Do you encourage your children to cheat in school when they feel they have to and tell them that in the real world they can really just decide for themselves which rules they deem fit to follow?
Contacting another seller's bidders with the intent of selling them something yourself is against eBay policy. When you registered with eBay, you agreed to follow their policies. So who gave bottomfeeders the right to break policies that everyone else must follow?
posted on October 29, 2000 09:48:02 AM newLibra63: does ebay sell our email addresses because I can't see anyone employing someone to just get email addresses off of ebay
No, ebay doesn't sell them - but it has used third-party companies to send emails for eBay.
The email address suckers are bots: software utilities created and implemented by companies that specialize in compiling email addresses and selling them. Those are the ones who compile huge amounts of email addresses off of eBay, but there are some "small" sellers who compile large amounts as well - I know there were at least 2 long-time, large-volume sellers whose bidding lists were spammed for an offer off of eBay. It was a horrible thing for those sellers, because the person doing it made it look like it came from the sellers. A LOT of their repeat customers got very upset; I know that in at least one case, many people complained to SafeHarbor, while only a couple figured out what had happened and informed the seller, who then ended up scrambling around apologizing to everybody and trying to straighten it out.
posted on October 29, 2000 09:48:40 AM newSo who gave bottomfeeders the right to break policies that everyone else must follow?
I don't think it's fair to compare cheating & stealing with breaking one of eBay's obscure policies (and thay have a lot of them, believe me)
In this particular case (mine) everyone got happy.
The seller of the auction: He got a good price for his item.
The high bidder: He got (what he thinks is) a good deal.
The runner up: She got an item she though would never find again, at a discounted price.
Myself: Sold the item at a good price.
The ony unhappy individual was eBay, who never got it's fees, but if you ask me, I would gladly pay for them!
Maybe this is the solution to bottom feeding:
Send an email to the underbidder, CC eBay, offering the item at a price, if he/she agrees, eBay would charge the according fees into your account and presto, now everyone's happy!
posted on October 29, 2000 09:49:41 AM new
Wpc .... Really, you still don't get it?
Look at it this way. You open a store up & work your butt off getting people to come in & visit your shop. You pay for advertising, stock, etc-etc. Pretty soon you have a large following & you're sales are doing very well.
Along comes some weenie that decides he/she can make a buck off your hard work & sets up a stand outside your shop doors on the sidewalk. The City bylaws say it's illegal.
What would you do, and more importantly, how would you feel towards that sidewalk seller?
posted on October 29, 2000 09:54:57 AM new
Minnow ..... An obscure rule? Hardly.
I suppose some people might be able to say the same thing about Shill bidding?
It's all there in black & white for anyone that chooses to look beyond the end of their nose.
What if the high bidder of that auction had welched on the deal? Now the seller is out selling to the runner up because of the deal you cut with them. The seller may get their FVF's back, but they still get stuck paying the listing fees, which on some auctions can be a fair chunk of change.
posted on October 29, 2000 09:55:43 AM newlizardsally, I've done the same thing. Not with my userid. It was for the book "To Kill a Mockingbird". Harper Lee had signed hundreds of copies & it was only sold in one shop in AL for $18.00. Sellers were starting off the bidding at $50-100. & advertising it as "rare". I emailed every single one of the bidders until most of the auctions started using the "private" feature. To me, the sellers' tactics were misleading and just plain wrong.
wpc, I agree the issue is not really about spam. If spam is commercial email, then the seller who receives an email from a buyer asking if the seller has another item would turn the buyer in. Why is it fee avoidance if the seller contacts the buyer but not if the buyer contacts the seller? Either way, ebay doesn't get the money, and an off ebay sale takes place. What difference does it make who contacts whom first?
IMO, ebay doesn't think the problem is that big or they're losing much. If they did, e-mail addys would be private.
posted on October 29, 2000 09:56:43 AM newAlong comes some weenie that decides he/she can make a buck off your hard work & sets up a stand outside your shop doors on the sidewalk. The City bylaws say it's illegal.
How about this example. An Italian restaurant opens on the east side of town. New business, struggling as you mentioned. Three months later another Italian restaurant opens, right next door. The first is on it's way out now, the second was a much larger restaurant and subsequently took all of the first's customers [True Story]. This happens every single day, it's not nice, but it's business. So, it does not have to be illegal or against policy. But what does the eBay original seller lose? Especially if they deal in items they only have one of?
posted on October 29, 2000 10:01:13 AM new
I have had buyers of mine ASK ME to email them when I get more of a certain item in. In fact, just this morning, I got an email from a recent winner who ASKED ME to email me when I list more. Since she ASKED ME, I can do it. However, if I were to surf similar items and other seller lists and email unsuccessful bidders on those other seller lists and tell them that I have the same item, that would be wrong because, not only is it not my bidder, but they DID NOT ASK ME to email them, and therefore my solicitation of them would be spam.
posted on October 29, 2000 10:40:14 AM newThe item he just emailed me about is a jacket, and is not something I would want. So do I report him to Safe Harbor???? Or do I email him back and ask him not to email me anymore?
For a while, I tried replying to sellers explaining the antisocial nature of such spam. It didn't work in two tries (I received unpleasant responses), so I don't bother any more. Just send it to safeharbor.
posted on October 29, 2000 10:54:37 AM newIf the recipient's your friend, he/she won't turn you to Safeharbor
The 'mail this auction to a friend' feature is just that, to mail an auction to a friend. Case in point, I have mailed things to my mother that I have personal knowledge that she is interested in because she has told me so, and asked me to let her know if I find anything...things that other sellers have. She had me on a search for specific-themed decor for her new winter condo once and, although she is online, she doesn't even have an eBay account, so I would be the one bidding for her anyway if she wanted it. You may have a conversation with a friend and they may mention that they're looking for a widget. Lo and behold, while surfing on eBay one day, you find the widge she's looking for, and send her the item via 'mail this auction to a friend'. The distinctive difference here is that you have nothing to personally gain, as it is not your auction in the first place.
In the case I mentioned before, where my buyer asked me to forward them the item listing if I were to list another, I can do that via 'mail this auction to a friend', since it is not unsolicited. I have done this once or twice for a couple of buyers who have been regular customers of mine for over a year and have asked me to...I did not solicit them.
I often mail myself listings, from my webtv to my pc, where I do most of my work, using 'mail this auction to a friend'.
None of the above examples of use of this feature is against eBay policy.
If you were to use it, however, to mail an auction of yours to another seller's bidder, past or present, unsolicited, THAT is against eBay policy.
posted on October 29, 2000 12:08:03 PM new
Minnow.... "The second bidders happy, they got the item at a discounted price"
..
..
You've contradicted yourself. In the first post in this subject you admitted that your motivation to bottomfeed to begin with was because you felt you'd be able to extract more money from the second bidder this way. You said if you ran an auction the price that the second bidder paid would only be one increment above the next bidder. You're right, you did your homework. You can rationalize all you want, but your behavior exemplifies all that is bad in bottomfeeding.
..
..
Tell me, if you really think that the second bidder is happy, why don't you invite them to come read this thread!!
posted on October 29, 2000 12:19:15 PM new
Pointy, thanks for pointing that out. I agree with you 100%. There is no way to justify it.
I'd hate to think that in my auctions, there's another seller contacting all the non-winners and offering to sell them the same item at "10% off." eBay should make every effort to prevent that.
posted on October 29, 2000 12:22:45 PM new
So I email the guy who posted me with the Spam about the auction for his jacket, and I asked him not to email me anymore, because I am quite capable of finding my own auctions thank you, and he emails back with this:
<< Sally Isbell >>
Think!!!
I have already reported him to SH; I figure it's no different than reporting regular Spam to www.SpamCop.com.
But what the heck does "think" mean? Am I supposed to care that he knows my name? As if he wouldn't have known that anyway from the first time I emailed him asking about the boots? So I emailed him back with "Think what? Think this is Spam? You betcha." I also included the blurb from ebay on the "mail this auction to a friend" page that says Sellers: If you use this service to advertise an item that you are selling, and a recipient complains to eBay, your registration may be suspended. "Spamming" by our sellers is a suspendible offense (See our Guidelines).
So is this guy just a psycho, or what?
(edited spelling error)
[ edited by lizardsally on Oct 29, 2000 12:23 PM ]
posted on October 29, 2000 01:51:15 PM newTell me, if you really think that the second bidder is happy, why don't you invite them to come read this thread!!
I took the risk of posting my experience here, and then geting myself ripped appart limb by limb.
posted on October 29, 2000 02:18:39 PM new
If emailing a seller to see if they have more than one item is wrong, is emailing a seller to end their auction wrong because they want that item. Do you then send that email to SafeHarbor? I think if that would happen Safe Harbor would be rather busy.
posted on October 29, 2000 02:27:13 PM new
Geez Glenda, you're so literal! Guess there's no kidding around allowed around here. Anyway, what do you guys think he means by "think?" I have thought and I can't come up with anything!
posted on October 29, 2000 04:38:40 PM new
Pointy asked:
"Would Ebay be a better place if e-mails were private?" Not necessarily.
"Would Ebay be a better place if there was no bottomfeeding?" Yes.
-----------------------------------
If the majority of eBay's sellers thought private emails were necessary, the majority of eBay's sellers would be using the private auction option. That isn't the case. So, I wonder about the "need" to make emails private for everyone. I just don't see it.
I think in reality, everyone will make his or her own determination as to what is or isn't spam. As a seller, I would never contact another sellers bidders and make offers and I sure wouldn't appreciate other sellers contacting my bidders. Calling those types of contacts spam doesn't bother me at all.
I wouldn't mind at all though, if MY high bidder on a ligitimate auction of MINE, asked me if I had any duplicate items I wanted to sell. I would welcome the inquiry and I might sell the item(s) if I had them. I would NOT call that spam and I would NOT report that inquiry to eBay.
posted on October 29, 2000 04:45:06 PM newIf the majority of eBay's sellers thought private emails were necessary, the majority of eBay's sellers would be using the private auction option
Not necessarily. That's pretty much like saying if the majority of eBay sellers thought eBay's fees were to steep, they would be selling on Yahoo.
posted on October 29, 2000 06:10:05 PM new
Reddeer..I agree with your last post.
At the current time, if a seller uses private auctions there is an appearance that something just "ain't right" about the auction.."maybe the seller is hiding something (like maybe shilling)" is the thought that passes through some bidder's mind. Therefore a lot of sellers won't use private auctions.
If ebay institutes hidden email addies then there is no appearance that something "ain't right" because EVERYONE is in effect having private auctions..there would be no stigma to it.
So, I agree that to say because so few are using that option now we can draw the conclusion that few ebayers want private emails is incorrect. We can't draw that conclusion ..the premise is flawed.
posted on October 29, 2000 07:00:54 PM new
Particularly in regards to buyers emailing sellers regarding unsold items -- I don't think this is bad at all. I've done it several times and had successfull transactions. Sometimes sellers seem to have no clue as to the true value of an item. They start out with a high asking price that is never met. No bids. Nada. Other times I've patiently waited for them to relist it -- and then they never do. I feel no remorse making a realistic offer for something that goes unsold. All you "Bargain -Hunter Bashers" can rant on all you want.
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