posted on October 29, 2000 08:17:19 PM
jamesoblivion,
According to the original post, the bidder sent a second PayPal amount on her own when she realized she hadn't paid enough the first time..valerie47 only had to send one extra email, where she requested her missing $.27.
posted on October 29, 2000 08:18:41 PM
BTW, regarding charging buyers DIRECTLY for using PayPal, you might want to read the thread I posted earlier about this. According to ebay, this would not be in accordance with their rules.
posted on October 29, 2000 08:35:36 PM
Twelvepole: Nothing you have said here now has ANY bearing. You were real quick to say HOW sellers should do this, how sellers should do that, etc. This coming from someone who's never sold anything before! Of COURSE you are only going to be pro-buyer - that's all you are! You are a buyer and you only see things from the buyer's point of view. Sell on ebay for 3 years and THEN we'll see how your views have changed. Depend on all your ebay sales to pay ALL your bills and put food on your table. THEN we'll see how your views have changed. Pay taxes on ALL of your ebay sales. THEN we'll see how your views have changed.
Until then, save your speeches on how sellers should conduct their business to yourself.
I didn't get this far by being an unfair seller. I have earned my excellent reputation and I have MANY repeat buyers. Think what you want, but I run a good business and know what I'm doing. I certainly don't need "tips" from someone who's never even sold anything before!
posted on October 29, 2000 08:45:37 PM
Sorry, valerie, I'm a full-time ebay powerseller and I've been short-changed maybe twice in 2+ years.
I wouldn't have spent the extra time chasing down that 27 cents for the same reason that insurance companies settle claims instead of going to court -- it costs less.
That 27 cents may eventually remain in your pocket, but how much did it really cost you? How many listings could you have written in the time you've been monkeying around with this?
posted on October 29, 2000 08:45:59 PM
too bad Valerie, put me on ignore then, but I will continue to voice my opinion!
If you can't stand some good advice from me, then reddeer and dman ARE sellers... look at their posts.
Needed to add, your somewhat lame attempt at a dismissal means you had to give up the debate, you can't validate what you did was correct.
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by twelvepole on Oct 29, 2000 08:53 PM ]
posted on October 29, 2000 09:04:25 PM
fountainhouse: I wouldn't mind if it only happened once or twice a year. That happens on a WEEKLY basis for me. You have your way of running your business, I have mine. Oh, and I wasn't planning on listing ANYTHING tonight. It's my night off. But thanks for your concern!
Twelvepole: You say I can't validate what I did was correct? Are you joking?? I know what I did was 100% correct. Anyone looking at my feedback can tell for themselves what kind of business person I am. I'm very successful on ebay and it's not because of pure luck.
posted on October 29, 2000 09:14:28 PM
If this is happening on a weekly basis, valerie, your time may be better spent in identifying why than in chasing after the pennies one-by-one.
Just a suggestion, mind you. Wouldn't want you to think I'm telling you how to run your business or anything...
posted on October 30, 2000 05:46:03 AM
Well, I am a seller and a buyer on e-Bay....mostly sell.
Here's my take on this:
I have never once been shortchanged in over 200 transactions. I don't understand how this could possibly happen on a weekly basis. I would review my procedures and e-mails to see what could be wrong.
IF it did happen to me, and the amount was under $1.00, I wouldn't get so hyper over it. Why would I be willing to "dump" a customer over pocket change? Is this a customer not worth having? Is this customer to be equated with a deadbeat?
You are so quick to say this customer is not worth dealing with when they DID try to pay and complete the sale. You could have worked this out AND probably have gotten the 27 cents if you weren't so quick to lose your temper and go ballistic over this tiny error. My gosh, you'd probably have yourself a heart attack over $20!
I have to comment that your whole demeanor is so condescending toward buyers that I really wonder if this is what you should be doing with your life. If you don't like dealing with people, perhaps there is some other way to make your living? I mean this with utmost sincerity, not to mock you. This is not the first time you have come here all upset over a transaction and none of the problems were earth-shattering.
You have received plenty. I don't think you really started this thread seeking advice. What you were really seeking was affirmation. Sort of reminds me of one of your previous threads...
posted on October 30, 2000 06:45:11 AM
You people all seem to be missing the big picture here.
My *CUSTOMER* is the one who said she didn't want to be "hazzled" (her words!) over 27¢, so she wants to cancel the transaction - over 27¢. All she had to do was send me the correct payment and everything would have been just fine.
If I'm being "petty" over 27¢, then so is she - since she wants to cancel the transaction over 27¢!
Also, let me add I DON'T think I'm being petty whatsoever. This is my business. I expect to get paid what I am owed. You who say it has to be over $1 to be valid just crack me up!
You could have worked this out AND probably have gotten the 27 cents if you weren't so quick to lose your temper and go ballistic over this tiny error.
Lose my temper? Go ballistic? Get your facts straight! Neither of that is true. I politely emailed my customer asking her for the balance she owed me. SHE is the one who responded RUDELY and said to cancel the transaction - because SHE didn't want to pay up to her OBLIGATIONS.
I have to comment that your whole demeanor is so condescending toward buyers that I really wonder if this is what you should be doing with your life.
Well lucky for me you don't have a say in the matter, huh? If asking for PAYMENT IN FULL is condescending to you - then I think *YOU* are in the wrong business! I've been doing this successfully for almost 3 years. Like I said before, my feedback rating of 3000+ speaks for itself. I have a 99.9% positive feedback rating. I'm doing GREAT!
I don't think you really started this thread seeking advice
Really? And who are you to tell me why I wanted to start this thread? Do you try to second guess EVERYONE who posts a question here?
You also seem to be forgetting she has been NARU'D by ebay, and she's a newbie. I'm not even obligated to finish this transaction with her!
posted on October 30, 2000 06:53:46 AM
First, the buyer is NARU, so they are obviously not going to be a good customer.
Be that as it may...
Valerie, I understand that this is not the case of .27. It is the principle of the thing.
If the buyer had paid correctly the first time, it would have cost you $.67 in PayPal fees anyway, so to let the .27 go, you are only down a dime, which is still short and again, it is a principle issue.
At this point, you can either ship the item and forget it or sell to the second high winner and lose the .50 in transaction fees or take a chance that your PayPal account will be frozen because you kept the .50 in fees.
For the future...
Since you do seem to have a lot of people who can't read your EOA, you might want to take a look at your EOA.
1) Earlier, we discovered that you put the total in red at the top of the EOA, however some people do not have e-mail programs that read html and so all they see is a bunch of gibberish.
I put my total in the Subject of the e-mail so that they don't even have to open the e-mail to find the total. Perhaps this is a thought for you? My subject line looks something like: "Congratulations! You have won my Ebay auction #XXXXXXXX--total due: $XX.XX"
2) I would get rid of PayPal since this is beginning to cost you money on these multiple transactions. Find another service that is more seller friendly such as PayDirect that allows you to accept or reject a payment. ExchangePath is also free at this time. My customers have used both with great success and I have only had one customer who decided to pay me via MO because I didn't accept PayPal--which was fine with me as I happily accept MO, checks and cashiers checks as well.
Again, I understand that this is a principle issue, but perhaps it is time to take a look at your methodology and try to head these problems off at the pass before they have cost you money.
posted on October 30, 2000 07:04:44 AM
Thank you labbie. I did re-do my EOA email a while ago, and it's a lot shorter and to-the-point.
I have thought about getting rid of Paypal - but I have customers who tell me if I didn't accept Paypal that they wouldn't have bid. I do accept Exchangepath, Paydirect, and Payplace as well. But only 1 or 2 customers have used them. If more would use them I would cut out Paypal in a heartbeat. But the buyers prefer Paypal. I will still have to think about that one - I would love to get rid of my Paypal account. They really should offer an option to "Decline" a payment if you don't want to accept it.
And yes, you are correct that this is a principle issue. However, in the long run it DOES add up. I wouldn't short change anyone else - I don't want it done to me either.
posted on October 30, 2000 07:11:56 AM
"If I'm being "petty" over 27¢, then so is she - since she wants to cancel the transaction over 27¢!"
That is the point Valerie - the buyer did NOT cancel over the .27 cents (which based on PayPal fees is actually only .10 cents). The buyer cancelled because you were someone they chose not to do business with - attitude and all.
You had a thread running about one month ago with the same attitude towards a buyer - I believe something about a bad transaction and a negative - then your negative % was compared etc. You were very also condescending then.
You stated several times a week people pay wrong. I sell clothing also (I believe you do to) and in 6 months only 1 person paid wrong and they immediately sent the remainder and profusely apologized).
Several have constructively suggested looking at your EOA - maybe the amount is not prominent or clear. Do you require your buyers to add up the total and the shipping -if so, maybe putting the grand total is XXX would help. What I find interesting is that you have not once thanked them for the suggestion. To me that alone says exactly your intent with this thread.
*****************************
IMHO -
You have been selling successfully for over 3 years, yet, you really appear to get very upset over these little items. Seems to be recently. Maybe something is going on in your personal life. Maybe you are really not into this as you used to be etc.
I am sure you have all the right intentions -however your verbiage in your writings is very condescending and not customer service friendly. I do not think anyone is suggesting you continue to lose money, no matter the amount, as it does add up. However; you may wish to step back and re-evaluate your writing. Have a neutral party look them over. The written word always comes over much harsher than intended. If the perception is that wow, what a ......., why complete this - then that is what you are going to get even if you did not mean that.
Life is too short - why spend so much time stressing over something that could probably easily be fixed.
I wrote to my customer a POLITE email asking for her balance. That was not condescending in ANY WAY.
What I find interesting is that you have not once thanked them for the suggestion. To me that alone says exactly your intent with this thread.
I don't even know what you are talking about here. I've thanked several people for their input. I'm certainly not going to thank someone who constantly tries to rip me apart in every thread. And again, I don't suggest you go around second guessing what people's intentions are when they post a thread.
You stated several times a week people pay wrong. I sell clothing also (I believe you do to) and in 6 months only 1 person paid wrong and they immediately sent the remainder and profusely apologized).
Well how many items do you sell per week?
Do you require your buyers to add up the total and the shipping?
No I do not. My EOA clearly states TOTAL DUE: $xx.xx right at the top.
posted on October 30, 2000 07:26:39 AM
Wow, I CAN NOT believe what I am reading. Bidder short changes seller. Bidder short changes seller again. Seller asks for balance. Bidder says forget it, cancel transaction.
And the SELLER is the rude one? Just because she wanted her EXACT amount that was owed to her? Are you people KIDDING ME?
Why don't all of you post your ebay ID's here so I can bid on your auctions - and then only pay what I feel like paying.
posted on October 30, 2000 07:45:32 AMI have thought about getting rid of Paypal - but I have customers who tell me if I didn't accept Paypal that they wouldn't have bid. I do accept Exchangepath, Paydirect, and Payplace as well. But only 1 or 2 customers have used them. If more would use them I would cut out Paypal in a heartbeat. But the buyers prefer Paypal.
Valerie -- customers seem to *prefer* PayPal mainly because they're already signed up with PayPal. The main thing they prefer IMO is being able to use a CC and/or getting the item fast (of course, some have PayPal balances). I've dropped PayPal and specifically say I'm no longer accepting PayPal in my TOS, and added THREE other (FREE)options. I've had no problems converting buyers.
posted on October 30, 2000 07:48:54 AM
My EOA read:
$x.xx (bid) + $X.XX (US Bookrate shipping) = $x.xx.
I post roughly 30 auctions a week. I get shortchanged 1 in 30 transactions.
My auctions clearly state "I do not accept Paypal, I can not afford the new fees". Yet, one in 20 buyers ask for PayPal.
I do not make a lot of money from EBAY. I'm happy with the profit I do make. I don't expect to get rich, just supplement my retirement income. With the expenses I already have, such as purchasing boxes, paying taxes and EBAY fees, and running only 30 auctions which, on average, gain $10.00 or less each before EBAY takes their cut, profit sharing with PayPal or people who can't copy dollar amounts from their e-mail is more than I'm willing to swallow. Although I do sometimes, because it's a bigger PITA to ask for the difference. Want to bet these shortchangers count on that? Personally, I've never shortchanged an EBAY seller, in over 300 buys, but if I had, I'd pay the difference.
I don't think I'm the equivalent of WalMart, but neither am I running a yard sale where haggling is expected. The fixed shipping cost is disclosed in the auction, the method of payment I accept, (which, by the way includes postage stamps for people looking to avoid the cost of a money order), as is the final bid price. And that what I expect to receive. These details are reiterated in the EOA.
Do you suggest I make it simpler or more obvious so that my bidders understand that I expect full payment and do not accept PayPal?
The seller asked for the balance due PLUS the transaction fees for PayPal. I think that's the point where the buyer was turned off and that's also the reason many here feel that the seller was rude.
If you were a buyer only, you might not even be aware that PayPal started charging sellers transaction fees. Also, I don't believe you are allowed to directly charge those fees to the buyer.
No one is contending that as a seller you should take whatever the buyer decides to send you; that's just silly. What many ARE saying is that tact goes a long way in any business dealing and that most problems are minor and can be handled gracefully with the payoff being a happy customer and a potential repeat customer.
posted on October 30, 2000 08:29:34 AM
I absolutely LOVE my ebay customers. They are the ones who made me a full time seller instead of full time babysitter who was losing her mind. I have been shorted maybe a dozen times in 1000's of transactions, I figure it was a mistake, not that they have done it on purpose. Most of the time they forget to include shipping costs. Now this is just me mind you, but I have never asked to be reinbursed. I just chalk it up to a business expense like buying tape. I'd rather have a content customer who may come back and buy some more then to embarrass them by asking for the money they forgot. Now should you run your business like me, absolutely not, you do what feels right for you. But you did ask for advice and of course some opinions are going to differ from yours. And truthfully I have been short at stores like Walmart and had the employees put in their own money for me or take it out of a fund they had especially for this.
posted on October 30, 2000 09:05:22 AMReally? And who are you to tell me why I wanted to start this thread? Do you try to second guess EVERYONE who posts a question here?
There is no second guessing involved. Just go back an re-read your own posts.
Why is it that SOME of you can't seem to just comment on the topic, without trying to cut down a person?! If you really want to help just stick to the issue instead of making the originator of posts feel they have to defend themselves. I have seen this over and over.
I've seen posts where good people that have contributed to these boards have said they are leaving due to this behavior on the boards. How many times has a Moderator come on and said " Just a reminder, please remember to address the subject , not the individual."
"It is an auction and that makes things Negotiable. If you want to sell retail, then open a store."
I have been to many auctions. At the end of the auction I check out and pay the FULL amount. Not 5 to 99¢ short but the FULL AMOUNT.
I do not short change anyone...nor would I be allowed to leave without paying in full, esp. if I had the attitude this particular customer had.
I have never been to an auction where someone bids x x amount and leaves with the item for less than bid amount. I have never heard of an auction that is negotiable after the auction has ended.
Yes, people do make mistakes and perhaps don't have the correct change at check out time..and they are sorry and will make good.........but this particular customer did not care that she was short changing the seller.
There is a difference between an honest customer and one that does not give a darn.
This particular customer did pay twice but when confronted with the extra that was still owed she said ..FORGET THE DEAL!
I would NOT call that person a good customer.
That is not someone who just made a mistake and is willing to correct her mistake....it is someone who make the mistake and does NOT care.
"Wow, so over 27 cents, you screwed up a sale, I hope she puts through a charge back for the full amount and then you have no choice how much to refund her."
You accused this poster right from the start of being in the wrong. Too bad you could not have said...something like "I would have done this" OR "how about if you try this approach"............Period.!!!
Why did you feel you had to point the finger and accuse this seller from the start? Don't you feel you could have been kinder....more civil ?What a response and all because this seller asked for the remainder due her!
"YOU SCREWED UP THIS SALE!" and adding "HOPE SHE PUTS THROUGH A CHARGE BACK FOR THE FULL AMOUNT".......THEN YOU HAVE NO CHOICE HOW MUCH TO REFUND HER"
What a nice person you are? This is showing how nice you deal with other people? So you are hoping this customer who didn't send the correct amount , who imposed more fees to this seller and is not willing to make good on her mistake........you are in essence saying you are in favor of this particular customer?
You are HOPING this seller will have to pay the extra fees and be further in the red??...What kind of a person are you?
This customer is the one who has caused this problem to begin with.
You give your opinions like you were a seller but you are NOT.
IF you were a seller and to those who are sellers...how you have commented on this post , tells the story how you would react to a customer that crossed YOU, esp. if you were a seller and this was your only income.
To those who have to AGAIN try to attack this person by bringing up another post of hers ..... Do you enjoy trying to make a person feel bad? Do you know Valerie47 personally? Why attack her like you do? You like to rub salt in a wound? Do you feel that your posts are constructive?
You do not have to agree with her but why attack her personally like you do?
Valerie47: I hope everything will work out great for you. I am a seller also. I put in the correct postage amount right in the ad. Then I email the winning bidder ( a SHORT email) with the correct amount in bold print.
I ask the customer to please also send me their mailing address. Yet, I will get an email saying...please send me total amount or they don't send me their address.
I am not a powerseller like you and I get this kind of emails more than I like. My email is short and to the point. Just because you are getting these kinds of emails from people does not necessarily mean you are doing something wrong. I think people of today are so in a hurry they can sometimes overlook the obvious.
Valerie...why don't you ask the moderator to close this thread...as it is evident that there are those who do not understand or perhaps just don't want to understand your post...and are only trying to be disruptive.
Best Wishes to you!
To those who have posted on here that were understanding...and to those who merely put your opinion (even though you might not have been in agreement ), I say THANK YOU!!! You got your opinion across with out trying to hurt this individual!
I thought the purpose of these boards was to HELP.......NOT CONDEMN or TRY to hurt another person!
posted on October 30, 2000 10:19:09 AM
Psalms,
While I understand where you are coming from, I do not think you have a clear picture of why people have posted the way they have.
Based on this and a post about one month ago by the same originator berating the customer as basically - rude and stupid - people are starting to wonder if it isn't the seller's tones that make her customers that way.
She is not receptive to contructive criticism - therefore; not much is given.
It is her business but when brought to the boards to vent - she has to be able to take all sides, pro her position as well as against her position. The last time this took place she went back in and erased all of her responses as soon as the buyer was informed so that they would not read how she came across. So, IMHO, I believe people are a little weary of the - bad customer - how rude, threads by her. Why erase what was said - unless said out of anger and not necessarily how you feel. There is more to this than you are responding to.
Valerie,
I believe you are a very hard worker and successful seller. The bottom line is if the buyer didn't complete the transaction - do what your normal MO is. It is your business. I just think maybe you should step back before you send a written notice or maybe before posting here and think how the verbiage may come across. That's all.
Good luck to you in your business - have a great week!!
[ edited by boysmommy3 on Oct 30, 2000 10:20 AM ]
posted on October 30, 2000 11:10:07 AMPsalms Though you didn't ask for advice specifically, if I may, I would like to give a suggestion on your EOA and to anyone else who is using any type of bold, italics, color changes, etc. to highlight parts of their e-mail--
If the person to whom you are sending an e-mail does not have an e-mail program that can interpret html coding (which is what your program uses when changing the default type to bold, italics or color changes), then they see the actual html coding (which looks like gibberish) with your information in the middle of all of the coding which makes it difficult if not impossible for the recipient to read.
Using the default font for all of your correspondence will give you the best chance of everyone being able to read the entire correspondence and may cut down on the number of people who write to you asking for the total.
posted on October 30, 2000 11:48:58 AM
Pslams, on one hand you are right, but as someone who has read previous posts of this person, I responded as I felt appropriate at the time. It appeared from the get go, to me, that all she wanted was moral support for keeping the money.
I tried some constructive criticism, but was brushed off; as were the other posters who posted along the same lines.
Even the one poster who sided with her (James) said he would of sent the item and then requested the difference. Which was almost like one of my posts.
Ain't Life Grand...
BE HAPPY!