posted on December 9, 2000 02:20:39 AM new...I sell $10 items. I feel really bad for the customer who can't come up with a check or money order for that amount- (s)he shouldn't be bidding...
What gives you the idea that a buyer can't come up with $10, because he won't bid unless you take credit cards? I honestly don't get that statement.
I can come up with a heck of a lot more than 10 bucks and I won't bid unless the seller takes credit cards. I admit it, I am just looking for a quick way to pay. I hate writing checks and filling out money orders. Only wanting to pay by credit card has nothing to do with my ability to pay or right to bid.
posted on December 9, 2000 08:01:14 AM new
Couldn't agree more, Twinsoft!
It's also true that what you sell has a lot to do with whether or not it's worth the annoyance factor (mutating TOS, fees, stealth chargebacks, etc.)
When I first started selling, I offered vintage mass-produced items; now, more and more of my merchandise is one-of-a-kind arts/crafts. That whole "if I don't offer 70 ways of payment, someone else who has the exact same item will" thing doesn't apply anymore. (In addition, my biggest PayPal sale--for a small-timer like me, a three-figure sale is big--ended in tears this week with a veiled threat of a chargeback, a month after the sale. Boo.)
Back to checks/money orders/BidPay only after the holidays, and we'll see how it goes.
Nycrocker--that's scary! Did PayPal offer you an explanation?
[ edited by AndieBelle on Dec 9, 2000 08:05 AM ]
posted on December 9, 2000 10:54:12 AM new
One of my longtime friends pays for everything using credit cards. If she can't use a credit card there is a 99% chance she won't buy it. She likes the buyer protection aspect and like me she hates writing checks and money orders. She shops plenty online and off. I told her about this thread and she laughed. She doesn't shop much on ebay, so she could not grasp why some ebay merchants don't accept credit cards.
My friend has an income that varies between $15,000 and $20,000 per month. She pays her credit card bills in full before she gets her monthly statement. She said "I would be sort of insulted if someone told me, I should not purchase a small ticket item, because I didn't want to pay by check"." "How could they know how much money I have or what I am able to afford?"
I don't know if my customers should be bidding or not, they never give me datails of their financial situation....Well okay the deadbeats always tell me about their financial woes.
I agree that if you sell small tickest items accepting credit cards probably isn't worth the hassle.
posted on December 9, 2000 11:48:54 AM new
Grumpy, couple of things there. First, in my mind, there's a big difference between a merchant account and an online payment service like Paypal or Yahoo! PayDirect. With a merchant account, a seller at least has some protection against fraudulent chargebacks. Second, a buyer who insists on paying by credit card has a built-in guarantee. The mind-set of that buyer is, "if I don't like it, I can simply do a chargeback." That's fine if you're shopping at Macy's, but not at eBay. eBay is an auction, not a retail store. The seller sets the terms and all sales are final. A customer who insists on paying by credit card will (1) be more careless with his purchases, and (2) will wind up dissatisfied more often than a customer who pays by money order.
(From a buyer's perspective, it is convenient. No argument there.)
posted on December 9, 2000 12:40:11 PM new
Just want to clarify that a bit. In an auction, the winner may beat out 10 other interested bidders. So if the winner decides they are unhappy, not only is the seller screwed but also the other 10 bidders who bid in good faith.
I think a chargeback is inappropriate except in cases of gross misrepresentation. But with credit cards payments, especially those through Paypal and the other services, the seller is basically at the mercy of the buyer.
For the type of items I sell, mostly under $20, offering a convenience to my customers is just not worth the stress of wondering when Paypal will suddenly grab my money again.
In fact, I've already had two separate run-ins with Paypal. In both cases the problem occurred on the customer's end. (One package lost in the mail - filed fraud charges, and one paid with a stolen credit card.) I don't have time to waste dealing with those troublemakers while my other paying customers deserve my attention.
(On the positive side, my final check from PP arrived yesterday. They made it clear I can't open another account. As if!)
posted on December 9, 2000 01:35:34 PM new
twinsoft:
I agree that most problems occur when using 3rd party services. From the very beginning paypal could have offered sellers the option of only shipping to the buyers verified billing address. They didn't and opened up lots of sellers to fraud.
posted on December 9, 2000 02:14:39 PM new
I have just recently started accepting credit cards thru Billpoint (read: I haven't had a problem yet, so I'm still a happy camper-however NOT niave enough to think my time isn't comin'!)...About 1/3 of my sales have been paid by CC...Since some of those sales have been small, the fee does "hurt" but overall I still believe offering CCs is working for me....
When I'm shopping online, at other "retail type" sites, I always use my credit card & although I print the order forms for those sites that have pay by check or mo, I rarely follow thru & buy those items...Why?, convience and speed...If I'm shopping online, I want the process to be a quick as possible, and don't want the hassle of having to snail-mail payment...I find myself migrating the same way with my eBay purchases, looking for those sellers who offer Billpoint for a quick easy deal....My husband has a separate eBay account & is registered with Paypal, so if I "need" something that offers Paypal only, I will use his account (I WILL NOT open my own Paypal account)....But I definitely lookin' for those who offer CCs....Just my 2 cents...
posted on December 9, 2000 02:34:48 PM new
Of course you notice no difference is sales. This is the best month and few weeks to do business on paypal. Wait till the holidays are over. I bet you will be accepting cc then. Remember how slow September was....
posted on December 9, 2000 03:02:44 PM newjlb444, my sales are pretty steady all year long. While other sellers complain about slow sales (the economy, election, superbowl, etc.?) I just keep trucking right along. I didn't experience a summer slump. Can this be because I did accept Paypal at the time?
My sales go up and down. One day, great; the next day, slow. I look at overall patterns, not trends, and my sales remain stable. I stopped accepting Paypal in early October, well before Christmas buying began. It made little or no difference.
I realize that by refusing credit cards, I will miss out on a small percentage of sales. On the other hand, I am able to provide better service to my existing customers, which will lead to more repeat business. So perhaps the two offset each other.
My problem isn't sales, it's economizing my time. As I wrote before, Paypal and Yahoo were taking up too much time for the benefits they offer (to me, anyway). I can always add new products. But there are only so many hours in a day.
posted on December 9, 2000 03:44:53 PM new
I accepted CC directly for a year and it cost me at least $1000 in fees to do so. I liked the 3rd party services because the fees were lower (I dont expect them to remain free forever). With direct CC, I had 3 charge back attempts and I "won" them all. With the services, I never had a problem. But in retrospect, it was probably mostly luck. I did check each large order with anywho.com or similar service and if I didnt find the buyer listed, I asked for more info. If a buyer wanted it shipped out of the U.S., I insisted on money order. But that still doesnt protect me against unwarranted charge backs, as happened to others I know. But I still feel the need to provide CC for my customers and I know I will lose sales if I don't. So I researched and decided that I can offer everything and still remain reasonably safe.
Achex works bank account to bank account. There can be no charge backs. A customer can still file an affidavit for a stop payment if they get ripped off, so they have some protection, but filing this fraudulently is a crime (unlike a charge back) so it is not done lightly. The service is currently free. Anyone who likes to pay by check or money order should be even happier to do this because it is faster and safer. No worrying if it got lost in the mail of if the seller just claims it did.
Western Union's Moneyzap lets you use Visa, MC or Amex or your bank account. WU has years of experience combatting fraud. The first time a new account makes a payment, they contact the payer and verify identity. Payments remain pending for two days while they are verified. WU claims they have never had a charge back. Their 800 number is answered immediately. Currently there are no fees.
Neither of these services will freeze your entire account for one bad payment or complaint.
There is nothing dangerous about using services if you check them out first. What is dangerous is choosing services just because they're free, or pay you $5 or boast that they have more members. That is not the criteria by which to judge. For more info, http://www.ygoodman.com/payments.html
posted on December 9, 2000 05:54:46 PM new
grumpyebayer- you raise good points about convenience. However, when my bidders whine about not being able to pay by credit card, and I point them in the direction of BidPay, then they start whining about the $5 BidPay fee! Since I sell mostly used kids toys and the vast majority of my customers are parents who are trying to save a buck, I think my clientele is vastly different from the customers with unlimited incomes that you are describing in your post. Perhaps I don't know the exact financial situation of each & every customer who wins my auctions, but I actually know my target market quite well.
I can say one thing- my profit margins are not large enough for me to be eating chargebacks & third party payment service fees. If I start building those expenses into my prices, which I would have to do if I were to continue accepting credit cards, my prices would go up significantly, & a large percentage of my bidders would be looking elsewhere for their toys.
posted on December 9, 2000 06:01:51 PM new
As I have said before: on small ticket items accepting credit cards isn't worth the hassle.
An ice cream parlor near us used to accept credit cards. It was only $1.75 a scoop.
The owner told me she got a chargeback of $6.00 for a quart of handpacked ice cream. The customer told her card company the ice cream tasted funny. I nearly died laughing when she told me about it. They no longer accept credit cards.
posted on December 9, 2000 06:08:09 PM new
I am on Ebay, Amazon, and Yahoo. Most of my sales are on Amazon and their ONE CLICK has been perfect. The best. I've sold thousands of items this year without a problem or charge back and the funds, once transfered by myself, arrive within 7 days.
Yahoo is very slow and takes more of my time. Billpoint has been good but again takes a bit more time.
I won't accept checks anymore and I accept money orders on from Yahoo or Ebay sales.
I can't wait until there's a format that basically just charges the winner of an auction at the end of an auction.
It shouldn't be that difficult to close an auction!
posted on December 9, 2000 06:17:23 PM new
LOL Grumpy! That's so ridiculous! I definitely think the person who can't come up with the $1.75 for a scoop should wait till payday, not whip out the plastic...but that's just my 2¢ worth, perhaps I am too old-fashioned. Anyway, thanks for the giggle!
posted on December 9, 2000 06:36:51 PM new
Flexibility in payment is a plus for any seller. I would say up to 75% of my buyers use PayPal. I'd offer other CC options, but I prefer to keep it simple.
posted on December 9, 2000 06:56:52 PM new
Ok, everybody...I have a question for everyone. I am in the processing of starting to sell Laptops on auctions sites.
The prices will range from 900-2600 in my estimates after looking at past similar auctions.
My question is what is the safest way to accept payments. Being these are fairly high prices, I set up accounts at various cc collectors, PayPal, PayDirect and a couple of others...
What bothers me is this talk of chargebacks...I don't want to get screwed out of a $1000+ item!
posted on December 9, 2000 07:22:32 PM new
AndieBell - Yes Paypal offered me an explanation - that it is their "policy"!
SEE YA, PAYPAL!!!!
I LOVE TWIN's picture with the stack of checks and money orders sitting on the desk. Way to go Twin, you're my hero. I wanna be just like you when I grow up
Rocker
posted on December 11, 2000 06:37:16 PM new
I LOVE online payments. The turnaround time is so quick. I can have items in my buyers hands (and out of my house)in 2 or 3 days after the end of the auction. I have never had a problem and actually at times considered only taking online payments. When I buy I will not bid on auctions that do not take them.
posted on December 12, 2000 12:06:36 AM new
Interesting that this thread surfaced again. Just today I got several complaints from customers about not accepting Paypal. In addition, several winners beamed me money to Paypal before they got my invoice. And not only that, one customer even told me he'd pass on my auction because I didn't accept Paypal.
Funny, this last one felt the need to email me first to ask whether I do Paypal, before placing a bid on a $4.98 item. Anal retentive? Nah.
I think Paypal must have hired a bunch of people to bid on my items and then hassle me about it. I got more complaints in one day than in the two months since I dropped Paypal.
Folks, it will be a cold day in hell before I go back to Paypal. I still remember their "no one will be forced to upgrade" campaign. What a pack of lies. Everyone makes their own judgement. It is such a relief not having to deal with their constant cheating and lies. Save your remarks. If you want customers like the one above, you're welcome to them.
posted on December 12, 2000 04:39:46 AM new
Twinsoft- I occasionally get those "why don't you accept PayPal?" emails. I am more than happy to answer them in detail!
Way to go Twin, you're my hero. I wanna be just like you when I grow up