We have clarified several of our policies related to spam (a company or an individual sending unsolicited commercial email - even just one email) and fee avoidance.
This was done to clearly communicate the
rules, to ensure compliance and to address a number of member concerns. Among these concerns are:
- Receiving spam when trading on eBay
- Problems associated with outside trade (selling to underbidders or bidders in a Reserve Not Met item) - These transactions are not protected by services such as the Feedback Forum and insurance
Highlights of the Changes (these are not permitted):
· Circumventing eBay fees. Examples:
- offering to sell a listed item outside of eBay to avoid completing the sale on eBay
- accepting an offer to buy the currently listed item outside of eBay
- offering to sell the item outside of eBay to any of your bidders or another sellers' bidders in a Reserve Not Met listing
- offering to sell, outside of eBay, duplicate or additional merchandise to your own underbidders or to another sellers' bidders
· Contacting a seller and offering to purchase a listed item outside of eBay
· Offering in a listing the opportunity to purchase the listed item or other merchandise outside of eBay
· Sending unsolicited offers to bidders for the same or similar products that they have bid on in the past
These changes, and the related policies in full, can be found on the following pages:
posted on December 21, 2000 05:53:00 PM new
This doesn't look like it's really any different to what's already in place. In any event, it probably will still be done anyway by the bottom-feeding variety.
posted on December 21, 2000 06:09:36 PM new
reddeer....would you please comment...on how you think it will effect us more now that they mande some changes...the reason it ..i can not see much of a change....and i value your comments
posted on December 21, 2000 06:14:02 PM new
I glanced down through the new policy. The one thing that jumped out to me was the "Reserve Not Met" item. I thought it was ok before to contact a bidder on a Reserve not met item and strike a deal with them. Now it will be considered Fee Avoidance.
posted on December 21, 2000 06:15:11 PM new
Well these seem to be utterly unenforceable like so many of eBay's rules, still relying on the users to do the policing of the site for them.
"Contacting a seller and offering to purchase a listed item outside of eBay"
I wonder if the term "listed item" means an active auction only, or if contacting a seller after an auction has ended with no bids and making him an offer is now against the rules?
Does it matter? I think when making rules eBay should stick to actions over which they actually have some control.
1. List something that you know is illegal and high in demand (eg. an Emmy tape of "The West Wing".
2. Include a suggestion in your listing that lookers should print the listing as it could end at any time.
3. Wait for a few days until the eBay bandits cancel your auction. By then it will have received a few dozen looks and possibly some bids. eBay will credit your listing fees to your account.
4. Wait for the serious lookers to contact you.
5. Sell your item sans fees!
(PS - I have NOT done this!!!)
(PPS - eBay can't threaten me with anything anymore for suggesting a workaround to their stupid off-venue sales policy!!!)
posted on December 21, 2000 06:22:18 PM new
So...What is e-BAy gonna do? Call every Reserve Seller and wave a finger and say" NowNowNow! Tell Big Brother the ENTIRE TRUTH, nothing BUT THE TRUTH????"
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posted on December 21, 2000 06:33:55 PM new
I think eBay is doing themselves more harm than good. This policy will only encourage sellers to create opt-in mailing lists. All you need is for a bidder or looker to sign up for your list and you can send ANY kind of promotional email.
Given that outside deals cost eBay money, drawing attention to the problem will probably make it worse.
Here's a company that maintains mailing lists for eBay sellers: http://www.mybiz.com
posted on December 21, 2000 06:44:53 PM new
Someone out there has lost their grip.
Obviously eBay needs to rustle up more money. Sales are down. They ain't looking so good on paper. Did it every occur to them to be more conciliatory toward their sellers?
No. Instead there is going to be a long list of "thou shalt nots."
Now I do not practice fee avoidance as a matter of habit. I don't list reserve auctions, etc. But I do use the exposure I get at eBay to introduce myself to potential customers, and I pay eBay for that exposure. And that is all I am going to pay them for.
If I list an item there and it sells, they are moe than entitled to that commission. But I do not owe them anything else. Period. And I WILL sell to the customers who get to know me through my eBay sales. I WILL sell to those people who learn about my jewelry site through communications regarding eBay; and if a high bidder asks me if she can buy something off my website, I certainly will not turn her down.
I owe eBay what I pay in listing fees and commissions. Nothing more. Certainly nothing more.
posted on December 21, 2000 07:59:45 PM new
I understand that eBay wants to discourage "off eBay sales" but this hard-nose policy stinks in my opinion. Not ONLY is it unenforceable (and yeah right, AS IF I'm going to alienate my potential customers by turning them in to SafeHarbor) but I also think it demonstrates sour grapes from eBay. In my opinion this isn't about the "bottom feeders" etc., oh -- would it be that simple eBay! Rather it goes directly at the majority of good and honest users who have, for years, occasionally negotiated trades after auction in no-bid or reserve-not-met scenarios. Suddenly this practice is outlawed to the point that if Safeharbor gets a complaint, our trading privileges could be jeopardized.
I agree with Sandy. If an item of mine doesn't close successfully after I've PAID good money to eBay for providing the venue for it to be seen, then my obligation to them is OVER and if I choose to negotiate a trade, I WILL DO SO. I am so glad I kept my e-mail addy as my eBay user id.
posted on December 21, 2000 08:14:14 PM new
What a joke. ebay can't enforce the rules it has now.
Like I'm really going to tell the customer who recently purchased some items for Christmas & wanted several other sets that I can't sell them to her. Suuureeee
Man's got to know his limitations but ebay doesn't seem to have figured theirs out yet.
posted on December 21, 2000 08:34:17 PM new
Yes, the majority of these rules are currently found under eBay's Fee avoidance, but, I was somewhat shocked to see them now include "Contacting a seller and offering to purchase a listed item outside of eBay ".
Amy ..... You said "I predict....watch for possible changes that WILL allow ebay to enforce the rules."
BINGO. And for those of you that think that's going to be impossible, all I will say is, stay tuned, it will all become crystal clear in the very near future.
posted on December 21, 2000 09:49:07 PM newAmy: "Does it also include offering duplicates to the high bidder?"
No, it very specifically says your underbidders and other sellers' bidders:
- offering to sell, outside of eBay, duplicate or additional merchandise to your own underbidders or to another sellers' bidders
Meya: "I thought it was ok before to contact a bidder on a Reserve not met item and strike a deal with them."
Apparently too many sellers had the idea that, when creating a reserve auction, they were 'reserving' the right to sell the item off eBay. Two steps they've previously taken about this is to add the blurb about it being an off-eBay transaction to the closed auction, and to remove the "mail this auction to a friend" from a closed, reserve-not-met auction.
triplesnack: "Contacting a seller and offering to purchase a listed item outside of eBay"
There are actually sellers who don't like getting those emails, they sell only on eBay and won't sell outside of the auction - while I don't imagine any of them being foolish enough to turn in the person, this gives them a documented "out" to refuse without rancor.
posted on December 21, 2000 10:05:32 PM new
<b>Twinsoft</b>
I checked the mybiz link..they don't disclose what their fees are after the 30 day trial period.
Do you know what they are? I certainly don't want to set everything up that is needed and find out in a month it costs more than I want.
posted on December 21, 2000 10:31:07 PM new
I just read this on the announcement boards. do they really think sellers are going to turn business away just because ebay isn't getting their cut. when I run a dutch auction I get emails all the time that the bidder wants 6 items instead of the 5 he bid on. what do they expect me to say no,sorry I would love to make $2.00 more on this sale by selling you another one but I can't because ebay won't get their 20 cents, yea right I just had my worst month on ebay in three years and I'm going to turn business away. I also get emails from return customers to buy more items, do they expect us to turn them into safeharbor? they should concentrate on getting the deadbeats and bad sellers off ebay and bring in more bidders. oh and get rid of bin.
posted on December 21, 2000 10:40:27 PM newGlenda, I'm sure the only reason eBay didn't ban the selling of duplicates to high bidders is that THEY DIDN'T THINK OF IT when writing the rules.
How can they STOP off-auction sales from occurring? The only way is: to make user email addresses private (unavailable to anyone), except between the seller and the high bidder of an auction that meets the reserve, and then ONLY after the auction has closed (as Yahoo does); to disallow any seller email addresses, contact information, or website links in auction listings; and to give contact information (name, city, phone number) ONLY to a user trying to contact the seller of the auction he won, or vice versa.
That still leaves the links like PayPal logos with imbedded user email addresses in them (since the user gets credit for the 'referral' on the linked sign-up page). But I'm sure eBay can find a way to stop that, too.
posted on December 21, 2000 10:56:58 PM newIMLDS2, I'm not sure what MyBiz charges after the 30-day trial period. I've been told it will be around $30 per month.
They offer a lot of services. If you'd like to see the MyBiz toolbar in one of my auctions, click on the link below and scroll down to the bottom of the ad.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:08:32 PM new
Well, these excerpts mention "the listed item" and "the item." It appears that sellers can still sell OTHER similar items. ("I missed your auction, do you have any more?" )
The only time when an UNlisted item can't be sold is when it was a Reserve (Not Met) item. I can understand eBay's position. I started a thread about the same thing a couple of days ago. But I really do think eBay is going TOO FAR if they expect sellers to "snitch out" anyone who writes and asks to purchase directly.
If a customer writes to me and asks if I have more of an item available, it is an indication that the customer wants the item. It is perfectly natural to reply with, "To purchase, send $XX to ...." ) Just because I sold one widget at eBay in the folly of my youth, does that mean that I should be suspicious of every email that ever comes in about a similar item?
I mean, I LOOOOOVE eBay (don't we all?) but they are going from "only a venue" to neighborhood kingpin. Rather than restricting our sales, they should be working harder to bring new bidders into the fold.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:20:03 PM new
Granee--
If they institute the policy of not revealing or allowing links or email addresses to be revealed in a listing, I think they will ensure the exodus of sellers--m,aybe not overnight, but surely in the long run the sellers will finally move to a sight with less restrictions and more concern for their well-being.
I refuse to put my faith and trust in eBay that way. I refuse to make myself and my business, which I have worked hard for and dedicated myself to , despite physical handicaps, dependent totally on the whims of an unstable, unpredicatable, and uncaring company. I will not put all my eggs in any one basket, let alone THAT basket.
They have screwed over my selling for the last time when they messed up the jewelry categories. My sales still haven't recovered, and they were nothing to boast about to begin with.
I do not ever remember signing a lifetime contract with eBay--a contract with percentage rights to all my work. If so, I would expect tob e getting a great deal out of it, not paying for the bleeping privilege.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:23:12 PM new
Glenda
Yes, I read it that way too...but being the cynic I can sometimes be, I couldn't help but wonder if somewhere in there, in some convoluted way, ebay was also saying they would not allow us to sell duplicates to the high bidder.
As I've said before...I understand the need for ebay to in some way stem the heavy losses they must be having from those who use the site as almost free advertising to conduct much business OFF ebay. It isn't right for people to use ebay's money (server space) to conduct their business and at the same time find every way possible to NOT pay ebay.
But at the same time, for those of us trying to conduct a business, ebay's rules seem tobe a form of restraint of trade. ALL my merchandise does not belong to ebay. that figurine I sold to the underbidder a few weeks ago, along with the four others I sold to the same underbidder were not part of what I listed on ebay. Ebay has no right to assume I would have ever have sold that on ebay...which is what they are assuming when they say I can't sell duplicates to the my underbidders...they are making it sound like they have a right to a fee for everything I have in my inventory...and they don't.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:34:35 PM newtwinsoft, "The only time when an UNlisted item can't be sold is when it was a Reserve (Not Met) item."
Not quite - though the first two bullet items talk about a "listed item," the third one doesn't:
" ... offering to sell, outside of eBay, duplicate or additional merchandise to your own underbidders or to another sellers' bidders"
Besides, if it was a reserve-not-met situation, the item was listed, not unlisted.
"It appears that sellers can still sell OTHER similar items. ("I missed your auction, do you have any more?" ) "
The key is whether you have an established relationship - you have a relationship with your HIGH BIDDER, but not with your underbidder or non-bidders.
granee: They will always have to make it possible to contact a seller during an open auction, so people can ask questions. I don't think they'll implement the "ask question" function the way it is at Yahoo.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:38:09 PM new
iswore ..... I don't think eBay plans on implementing a policy of not allowing links or email addresses to be revealed in a listing. I think the main reason for these new changes are:
1. To reduce the amount of spam.
2. To remove the bottom feeders from eBay.
3. To reduce the number of under the table transactions by sellers.
Keep in mind, thousands of registered users on eBay use their email addy as their user ID. I don't see ebay forcing those users to change their user ID, or not allowing sellers who don't have their email addy as their user ID, to not have an email link in their listings.
What these new changes WILL bring with them, is the ability of sellers that are plagued with bottom feeders, to not be forced into using Private Auctions. IMO it's a move in the right direction.
I would imagine that most buyers will also welcome this change with open arms.
.
...that's it 
