I agree. i would be more than happy to pay eBay's closing fees. I always have been, because it means Ihave made a sale. I have always said that they should get credit where credit is due. And the couple of times when I held reserve auctions and the item sold after the auction clsoed, I offered eBay their cut. Because they did help me to sell the item, whether the reserve was met or not.
But don't tell me that I am not supposed to sell additional merchandise to a high bidder when that high bidder asks to purchase. I don't spam--heck, I have a mailing list compiled that I have never used. But if someone clicks on the URL in my signature line in my email and likes what they see--don't ever tell me I have to say no.
Because I will say adios to eBay.
Amy, I will email you. I want to throw some figures at you privately--bounce some ideas of you. Okay?
posted on December 21, 2000 11:59:12 PM
"But don't tell me that I am not supposed to sell additional merchandise to a high bidder when that high bidder asks to purchase."
posted on December 22, 2000 12:02:44 AM
· Offering in a listing the opportunity to purchase the listed item or other merchandise outside of eBay ----------------- This can't include a link to my website can it? I have always understood the policy to be something like ' you can't offer the item for the same amount or less than the opening bid amount '. Am I wrong?
posted on December 22, 2000 12:08:37 AM
Glenda, yes that's exactly what I'm asking about. When eBay says "the item" do they mean the item currently listed, or a similar item I have on my closet shelf?
Also, I'm talking about when a customer contacts the seller, not when a seller contacts underbidders.
Look, it's one thing to get an offer outside eBay, then cancel the bids and close the auction. That's clearly fee avoidance. It's another thing to reject a good faith offer for a duplicate item. We aren't eBay's drones.
I mean, if I run an ad in a newspaper classified, will the newspaper tell me I need to buy a new ad every time I sell one? This is really a finger in the pie that doesn't belong there.
eBay allows us to link to our web page where we can sell similar items. Do they seriously expect us to tell inquirers, "wait until I list it on eBay and then bid on it?" Does eBay expect me to research every inquiry I receive to find out if it is an eBay member, an underbidder, a visitor to my web site, etc.?
To be honest, I'd love to see eBay hide all the email addresses, prohibit links off site, etc. Of course, that works two ways. eBay shouldn't do targeted banners and put ads for Ace Hardware on my auction page! I'm satisfied inviting winners to my web site or to join my mailing list. But that doesn't include REJECTING offers I receive via email. What eBay is doing really sounds like restraint of trade. I have a problem with that, because I don't think it's legal.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:10:31 AM
But Glenda, what if the UNDERBIDDER asks?
My problem with all this has to do with the person who sees my auction that ended with no bids and asks if I would be willing to sell to them.
The reason I have a problem is the way I handle my inventory. I list it once. If it doesn't sell i will relist it, normally at a lower amount. If it doesn't sell then I normally don't relist it again...I take it to a local auction and get rid of it.
I normally relist within a few days of my first listing...which means that if someone asks me to sell to them after the first auction the item is noemally already relisted and they are told the new auction number. But if they ask after the relist I would probably sell...what I get from them will more than likely be more than I get at a local auction..after I deduct the auctioneers 25%.
I think ebay has to realize many of us are businesses..not hobby sellers...and a business person does not restrict themselves to only one type of sale or model. Heck...even ebay is trying to expand into other forms of selling...half.com, the banner ads for BMG. If they don't mind taking our business away from us with banner ads for BMG or half.com links from searches...why should we worry about selling something to an underbidder and not letting ebay have a cut?
posted on December 22, 2000 12:16:01 AM
In this case, Voices 1 screamed loud and along against such a scorched-earth policy and we did not prevail. We are told that genuine "spam" is too much of a problem with users. I say, balderdash, eBay should not be taking on the role of Big Brother.
We asked eBay to instead find ways to provide mechanisms for reporting successful after-auction sales so that eBay can collect its FVF where due or at least provide a mechanism for an auction to be consummated thru eBay even after it closes. Evidently those aren't practical or do-able from an engineering perspective. Ah well.
And yes, there will be additional phase-ins that will restrict e-mail accessibility -- another factor we screamed against. Honestly this is just one thing that absolutely sickens me.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:20:53 AM
Lisa...just how was it not possible to implement some way to sell an item after the auction ended unsuccessfully? Did they give you any clue?
posted on December 22, 2000 12:24:25 AM
twinsoft, if the winner of your auction - or winner of your previous auctions - asks if you have a duplicate or similar item, then it's eBay-okay to sell it to him, because you have an existing relationship.
If you add a note that you have additional merchandise to your end-of-auction invoice to your winners, that's okay. It's not eBay-okay for you to send the same sort of email to everybody who bid on your auction.
Likewise, it's not eBay-okay for somebody to surf eBay's auctions and email sellers asking to buy off eBay. While I'm sure that eBay documented this for financial reasons, it's also for buyer protection - if the buyer sends the money to the seller and the seller never sends the merchandise, that seller can remain on eBay because eBay can't do anything 'cause it wasn't an eBay transaction.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:30:52 AMrob1n: A link to your website is supposed to provide more information about the item you're selling, not an advertisement to other merchandise you're selling. The FAQ says:
Does this policy allow me to link to my own web site? Yes, you are allowed to have a link to your web site. Please remember: the intent of allowing links to a web site from your Item page has always been to enable you to provide additional information to help you sell that item. The link should not advertise other items or the fact that you may have other items for sale on your web page. ...
That's why an acceptable link is "please visit my website" but an unacceptable link is "please visit my website to buy Widgets, Gizmos, and Gadgets."
posted on December 22, 2000 12:37:46 AMAmy: "But Glenda, what if the UNDERBIDDER asks?"
As I said earlier, there actually are sellers - even Powersellers - who get very uncomfortable when they receive "I missed the auction, will you sell me ...." or "will you close the auction and sell me ..." emails. This gives them a documented "out" - they can tell the underbidder (or "stranger" that eBay policy doesn't allow it.
But yes, the policy is supposed to prevent off-eBay sales to underbidders, even if they do the asking as opposed to the seller doing the offering. This isn't, to be honest, one of my favorite changes - it simply sounds silly to me, because no seller in their right mind is going to report a potential bidder.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:40:25 AM
Glenda, then this policy would effectively prevent eBay members from linking to a commercial web site. It doesn't matter at that point what style of link you use. Because if someone surfing my ad follows the link, then emails me from my web site, I can still get in trouble.
Prohibiting email addresses and links in ads makes sense, I suppose, in some way. It doesn't make sense for me to have to verify every email inquiry I receive and refuse bona fide offers in favor of eBay sales.
I think eBay needs to provide a lot more clarification here.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:43:35 AMAmy: "Lisa...just how was it not possible to implement some way to sell an item after the auction ended unsuccessfully? Did they give you any clue?"
I think you mean "report an item as sold after auction" so eBay gets their FVF, right? This is just my opinion, but I think the engineering aspect is that they couldn't automate it - they'd have to process each billing manually. That's why people can't add listing options to an item after it's already started - like adding a second category, bolding, etc. - because eBay has already done the billing for that auction, they'd have to manually compute the changes and rebill.
Even if only 1% of the people reported it, with 4.5 million auctions, that would be potentially 45,000 manual billings a day.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:51:01 AM
I tell you what. I'm just going to draw a line in the sand. If I receive an eBay-related inquiry, I will do one of two things. I will either ask the user to go to my web site and purchase from there, or I will ask to user to join a promotional mailing list. There is no way eBay can expect me to refuse sales from my web site, whether the customer is an eBay member or not.
Look at the numbers. eBay has 15 or 20 million members. That's 15 or 20 million people I CAN'T sell to (via my web site) under any circumstances. At that point, I believe eBay goes from being a venue to being a monopoly exercising anti-competitive business practices.
It's one thing to restrict use of email addresses I get from eBay (i.e., harvesting the addresses of underbidders or bidders in another seller's auctions). It's quite another to restrict sales via my web site or mailing list. There is no way eBay can expect sellers to verify the identity of every customer who sends them an email.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:55:49 AMtwinsoft: "Glenda, then this policy would effectively prevent eBay members from linking to a commercial web site. It doesn't matter at that point what style of link you use. Because if someone surfing my ad
follows the link, then emails me from my web site, I can still get in trouble."
The policy on website links has not changed. If your link says "please visit my website," and you have more information about your company and/or the item (making the link eBay-okay), then people can still buy from your website, even though they followed the link from your auction.
Mind, I don't think eBay is happy with website links, but they've given no indication that they're going to disallow them.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:13:46 AM
I find it interesting that Glenda's Voices group was given one impression and Lisa's group was dealt with more honestly by Ebay.
Lisa says there will be more restriction on Ebay giving out email addresses. Glenda doesn't think this will happen.
Also, Glenda are you now a representative of Ebay, free to explain policy and answer questions on their behalf? Do you know for a fact that every answer you give is the exact interpretation as Ebay's powers-that-be.
Edited to add:
Thank you Lisa for treating us as adults and giving us honest answers rather than simply repeating Ebay's spiel.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:21:43 AM
Jada, I think Glenda's remarks represent her understanding of eBay's policy. I don't think she's speaking as a representative of the company and she's not giving that impression either.
(As an aside tho', I think Glenda understands eBay policy better than most eBay customer service reps. )
The whole purpose of these boards is to exchange ideas, and occasionally that means someone has to play "devil's advocate." Glenda has indicated her own personal feelings (clearly defined as such) on this matter so there is really no misunderstanding.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:28:26 AM
Glenda..there may be sellers...power sellers even, who are uncomfortable saying no to an inquiry to buy...but it isn't ebay's place to make a rule so those who are to spineless to say what they want to can have an official rule to "hang" their no on.
not meaning any disrespect to you (and I'm sure you know that), but that whole idea is hogwash!
That reminds me of one of my sisters. She was anti-abortion..went to rallys and everything. She divorced her first husband and started seeing someone new. She got pregnant...she had an abortion. She continued to be involved in trying to get abortions outlawed. When asked how she could be so hypocritical, she replied..."if there had been a law against abortion I wouldn't have been able to have gotten one. Abortion is wrong, but without laws against it it is to easy to have one"
Your argument about the rule against bidders contacting sellers to conduct business off ebay being instituted so those sellers will have a convenient "reason" to say no without making the requesting user angry is wrong. If a seller doesn't have enough backbone to say no there is no reason the rest of us should suffer because of it. IF this was ebay's reasoning on that rule, well, all I can say is the management at ebay must have all gone braindead because they sure ain't thinking anymore!
For crying out loud...why doesn't ebay, instead of making such a silly rule, simply tell those spineless ninnies to "JUST SAY NO!"
[ edited by amy on Dec 22, 2000 01:33 AM ]
posted on December 22, 2000 01:40:42 AMAmy, you said, "If they don't mind taking our business away from us with banner ads for BMG or half.com links from searches...why should we worry about selling something to an underbidder and not letting ebay have a cut?"Do my eyes deceive me??? This is the VERY FIRST TIME I have ever seen you post ANYTHING negative about eBay!!! Perhaps the bubble is bursting.
Glenda, you said, "Mind, I don't think eBay is happy with website links, but they've given no indication that they're going to disallow them."
Hide and watch, folks.
Ebay is desperate for money, and now wants a share of EACH AND EVERY SALE YOU MAKE as a result of their auction, both directly and indirectly (which includes selling ADDITIONAL MERCHANDISE to your high bidder, Amy, though that's one area they'll never get control over). As I said before, the ONLY way eBay can stop off-auction sales to buyers you "find" on their auction is:
1) to make user email addresses private (unavailable to anyone), except between the seller and the high bidder of an auction that meets the reserve, and then ONLY after the auction has closed (as Yahoo does) AND
2) to disallow any seller email addresses, contact information, or website links in auction listings AND
3) to give contact information (name, phone number, etc.) ONLY to a user trying to contact the seller of the auction he won, or vice versa.
All of these can be EASILY implemented with software changes, and I believe they're ALL coming. Maybe one-at-a-time rather than all-at-once, since eBay seems to have Mastered The Art of implementing a NASTY policy change, promising to back off, waiting for the ruckus to die down, then barreling ahead when no one's looking. But they're coming.
You think sellers get mad when a VERO gets their auctions closed....wait til eBay closes an auction because the seller links to a website that is SELLING something (or CHARGES YOU A FEE for every link you place in your listing!). After all, linking to a site with anything other than "additional information to help you sell that item" is AGAINST THE RULES (and has been for a long time---they just never ENFORCED it before.)
[ edited by granee on Dec 22, 2000 02:09 AM ]
posted on December 22, 2000 01:40:46 AM
Hi Twinsoft - If I were a new person reading these boards and saw Glenda answering each and every question asked about this new policy, with no disclaimer that she is not a representative of Ebay or speaking on their behalf I would make that assumption.
You say there is no misunderstanding. Yet, I still wonder if Ebay has appointed her a spokesperson of sorts, so as you can see two people can see the same thing very differently.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:49:18 AM
jada: I am in Voices 1 with LisaB. I concur with EVERYTHING she has stated in this thread. eBays intentions and Voices 1's disapproval (to put it mildly!!).
posted on December 22, 2000 01:53:40 AM
Thanks Dottie, I appreciate your coming here, stating your own opinion (rather than Ebay's), and giving us your input.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:54:18 AM
Granee..then you haven't read everything I have ever posted. This is far from the first time I have ever said something negative about ebay. I have made numerous statements critical of ebay. No bubble is bursting. I'm just not a rabid anti-ebay poster, seeing evil in everything they do. I also am able to see things from what I think is their point of view, even if I disagree with that point of view.
Jada..i have to disagree with you. Glenda is giving us her perceptions of what has been said to her by ebay reps. Her perception differs from Lisa's. Both Glenda and Lisa are treating all of us as adults.
But you do need to remember that each voices group is made up of unique individuals who have different perspectives. Each voices group reacts collectively in a unique manner. Lisa's group obviously objected to these new rules. It is possible Glenda's group were not as opposed to the rules.
Each group also may ask different questions and the discussion could go in a different direction for each group thus giving Lisa and Glenda different understandings of what was coming "down the road"...plus, different people interpet the same information in different ways.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:59:18 AM
Jada, I'm not a new user. And to me it looks like someone has an axe to grind. There's no need to preface every statement with "I'm not a representative of eBay." Glenda knows policy well, but it should be obvious that everyone on these boards is stating an OPINION.
Having said that, I'll repeat my comment that Glenda understands eBay policy better than most CSRs. Do you think you'd get a better answer if you emailed SafeHarbor?
posted on December 22, 2000 02:04:05 AM
Amy - I agree to disagree (quite a few people have disagreed with me quite often).
However, Glenda speaks with authority and makes it a point to directly answer user's questions. She doesn't state that she interprets the rules in this way, she simply says "this is the way it is". That's the part that bothers me, but as you said not everyone will see everything the same way. Obviously, this is one of those issues.
posted on December 22, 2000 02:09:09 AM
Twinsoft - Now you're placing your own interpretation on my motives. You don't know anything about my feelings toward Glenda or anyone else on this board, and comments made on this board don't indicate or reveal those feelings, no matter how you interpret those comments.
I never said you were a new user, I know you are an old-timer. I merely said, "if I were a new user...".
As far as you're concerned, there is no need for any disclaimers. That's your opinion, I feel differently. And no, every statement should not be prefaced with a disclaimer but a general remark every now and then would be helpful.
posted on December 22, 2000 02:20:26 AM
Twin..no, no, the pom poms are firmly attached!
Jada...you said
"Glenda speaks with authority and makes it a point to directly answer user's questions. She doesn't state that she interprets the rules in this way, she simply says "this is the way it is". That's the part that
bothers me,"
Couldn't Glenda's way of "speaking with authority" be nothing more than her way of writing...her "style" so to say? Couldn't her making a point of directly answering a user's questions be nothing more than an attempt to help others with information she has gathered from various sources (including her own powers of observation, reasoning and deduction).
Couldn't her simply saying "this is the way it is" be more your interpetation of her style than the reality of what she intends?
I think you are reading into Glenda's posts things that aren't really there.
Some of us tend to be more "authoritative" when we talk or write...others more "chatty"...I know I tend to be on the authoritative side...it's the way I am.
that eBay policy doesn't allow it.
