posted on December 22, 2000 10:38:28 AM
Ah, so much for free enterprise. It seems that the only ones that will make any money out of this is eBay! Personally, I think they are getting a little too big for their britchs.
posted on December 22, 2000 10:55:22 AMVM...I am in awe too must be from the same source as the idiot who made the "Approve all bidders" new tool prior to selling to someone, when what we needed was to BLOCK certain bidders......Amazing....
Never could sell anything on Yahoo...they do not have anough in the categories I sell in
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posted on December 22, 2000 11:17:52 AM
How about this scenario:
The seller has a widget up on Ebay that sells using the BIN feature. A potential bidder who was watching the auction emails the seller after the auction closes asking if they have any more of the item available to be sold.
Is that going to be a fee avoidance issue? Its not an offer involving the specific item that was listed and sold, its an invitation to buy a duplicate item if its available.
I agree, I don't see how these things are policable unless users are turning each other in.. like Safe Harbor isn't busy enough suspending people...
Sorry I couldn't answer your question until now. With respect to simply REPORTING post-auction sales, yeah, that would be very cumbersome and certainly would be voluntary so I could see the logistical nightmare for eBay.
What our Voices group envisioned though was perhaps some sort of mechanism on the closed auction page itself -- maybe another link or button or something -- that would allow seller/buyer to activate if they still wished to complete a trade. The item would then go through eBay's system -- eBay could collect their FVF (seller could be refunded a reserve fee if applicable), and item would be eligible for feedback / eBay protections etc. etc. I guess it was a little too grand a scheme for Engineering reality or so I'm told, and since I'm more right-brained than left and have very little computer engineering savvy, I'm not in a good place to argue about that.
The point was though, we were trying to get eBay to take an approach of FACILITATING rather than DEBILITATING. Yes, spam and bottom-feeding are problems, but some of us felt such a heavy-handed sounding policy was more disrespectful to the majority of users than the minority of scofflaws and we just felt eBay was casting its net far too wide.
Even in light of system modifications to restrict e-mail access, this business of encouraging sellers and buyers to "turn each other in" is just unpalatable to me.
And in terms of Voices groups, yes the different groups have different levels of interaction with eBay, and sometimes on different topics.
posted on December 22, 2000 11:44:22 AM
I'm sure I'll take some heat for this post, but that's OK, I could use some extra heat up here in the Arctic.
I honestly don't understand what the BIG stink is over this recent post on the AB? Most of those rules are already in force on eBay, AND unless a seller reports a buyer for contacting them outside the auction, eBay can't really do didley do da about it.
Many buyers do not appreciate getting SPAM from sellers after the auction is over. Reserve isn't met, so what, as a buyer if I
wanted to bid higher, I would have. I happen to be one of those who finds email from sellers after the auction annoying.
OK, so the seller has 2 identical items, so then put the other one up so I can bid on
it, less the last person who outbid me, & perhaps get it for far less. At least in that scenario as a buyer I'm allowed to neg
the seller if the deal goes south, and I'm covered under the eBay insurance program.
As far as email addys not being shown in
the future [with the exception of high bidder & seller], I think that's GREAT, and waaaaaaay overdue! Some of you have no idea
what a HUGE problem the scum sucking bottom
feeders are on this site. They use YOUR hard work to make THEIR sales.
I'm certainly no angel, and have indeed
contacted underbidders, but ONLY when the high bidder became a deadbeat AND eBay's rules will still allow that.
As far as my crystal ball goes, I believe eBay will still allow sellers to view ALL bidder email addresses. Bidders will be able to view the sellers email addresses, BUT, bidders, and non bidders will not be able to view other bidders email addresses.
IF ebay decides to implement a rule where sellers can no longer post their email addys, or email links in their auctions, I'll be just as pizzed off as Shosh, but I don't see that happening.
eBay knows their servers are not always reliable, and I doubt their "email a seller" forms will be any more reliable.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:12:41 PM
Reddeer, sellers contacting underbidders has always been forbidden. But at this point eBay is going after the buyers, especially the ones who scan completed items looking for unsold items. They contact the seller, offer 50% of the minimum bid price, and the deal is done off-eBay.
Read this post of mine from 12/20:
"It seems bidders were waiting like buzzards for the auction to end, just so they could drive the price down a little."
How and whether eBay can actually implement this new policy is another question. But it does represent a 180 degree turn-around from past policy. In the past eBay always maintained, "we don't care about sales completed after the auction, we don't want your money, don't tell us about it."
Apparently eBay has decided that after-the-auction sales are cutting too deep into their profit. And what's significant is that now eBay is going after the buyers.
I agree with Amy, this will benefit sellers. Buyers are already getting an incredible deal. The idea that buyers would refuse to bid, and then contact a seller immediately after the auction ends to screw the price down even lower, is unthinkable.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:16:06 PM
Just want to add, I suspect it has become commonplace for sellers to place a high reserve, then cull names of the bidders and negotiate deals off-site. I saw an auction a week ago that stated, in size 7 red font, "If reserve is not met, I will consider selling at a lower price." I mean, how blatant can you be?
posted on December 22, 2000 12:18:46 PM
Twinsoft ..... Yes, I understand that. If a buyer/bidder that waits until after the auction is over to "attempt" to cut a deal, can't get the sellers email addy, it might prove to be a tad difficult. Thus the new addition to the DO NOT DO list. I'm sure eBay was expecting some heat from buyers over this, so they released this new rule well in advance of their next new feature,the one where non bidders can no longer see the sellers email addy.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:24:09 PM
Another "plus" is that this shows eBay looking for a way to cut losses. I'd much prefer they do that, rather than increase fees.
My own beef is deadbeats. I lost over $1000 bucks to deadbeats this month, and that's typical. eBay loses far more to deadbeats that these others.
"Instant Pay" is a step in the right direction. I'd like to see "Instant Billing" replace it. If you haven't got a credit card with ample funds, then just surf on over to "Buy Now, Deadbeat Later.com" and get the f- off eBay!
posted on December 22, 2000 12:28:56 PM
If a non-bidding individual can not see the sellers email addy, then how can they ask questions before they bid ?
If it comes to that, I start placing my email addy in my listing.
I don't have a problem with eBay attempting control of things within their sphere, but communications deriving from my listings are none of their affair.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:32:28 PM
I definitely have an opinion here. I will email my past customers who have asked about ordering certain items when new stock comes in.
I sell Delicas and such. A lot of customers need or want certain colors that they can't find anywhere or they really like my prices. So they ask me to order them..so when I make a new order..I order that color (if I can). At this point I email the customers and let them know. They buy from me directly at this point.
Now this is using Ebay to build a customer base. And the is going outside of Ebay and not paying their fees. But what I don't sell directly, I place for auction and pay their fees (insertion, final value and Billpoint).
So I feel that they are getting their fair share of cash out of me and I don't see where the problem is.
If Ebay treated their clients like customers and not cattle..they would be doing much better and not coming up with all these rules and restrictions that can't possibly be enforced.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:34:53 PM
Reamond, I have no reason to believe eBay will specifically PROHIBIT individuals from supplying their e-mail address in their auction text, and if a seller chooses to use their e-mail address as their eBay ID (as do I), then that seller may not be "protected" from spammers or off-eBay contacts.
I would urge sellers who don't need eBay's protection to find a way to supply their e-mail address. Word to the wise.
posted on December 22, 2000 12:38:16 PM
Reddeer...maybe the reason for the concern shown in this thread is this...
Although many of these rules have been there all along...some just unofficial (offering duplicates to underbidders i don't remember being officially against the rules), ebay didn't seem to concerned with enforcing them or even really making much reference to them. plus ebay has seemed to encourage off ebay trades. they certainly didn't seem uptight about people selling reserve-not-met items...in fact they seemed to acknowledge we had a right to sell off ebay and refused to accept any fees for it saying "once the auction ends we have no interest in the item"
But now ebay is making a big to do about the rules and has already instituted some hinderance to getting email addys. Logic tells me that IF they are making a big thing of it, it means ebay feels it has found a way
to enforce these rules. I think from what the various voices members have suggested, there is SOMETHING coming down the pike...and from the hints they seem to be giving, it doesn't sound good!
Plus for me, it confirms something I heard in November. I was at Butterfields and had gone outside for a cig break. There was a young man in an ebay tee-shirt (NOT the ones we can buy) talking to members of Butterfield's staff. It was obvious he was an ebay employee. When the others left he and I started talking. He told me he was part of the engineering staff. in our chat he said that he felt that ebay was realizing it was loosing a lot of money from the auctions themselves and that the site was going to be revamped after the new year...it was going to be a big change. WHAT the changes were he didn't say and I didn't push to much to find out...he wasn't just speculating as he said he was working on the changes.
Then we hear this announcement and Lisa, Dottie, Ray and Glenda are intimating there is lots more just over the horizon....IT DON'T LOOK GOOD TO ME!!
posted on December 22, 2000 12:52:55 PM
eBAY has continually in their intentions of improving their site have done nothing but Triumph in destroying their site-------
As I go to bed tonight--and as I always do--I just pray that I'll wake up and find that EBAY has been sold---& sold to a more Seller appreciative friendly, helpful bunch---ones that see the real problems, and eradicates those instead of contiually putting more restraints on the very ones that made them so successful to begin with.
Keeping in mind--when I go to sleep at nite-after saying my prayer-and once in LA LA land---I continue to do ALOT OF DREAMING!
posted on December 22, 2000 01:18:38 PM
Hmmmm.....maybe I've had to many sips of the eggnog (fat chance, egg nog isn't on on diet...Grrrr), but I'm having a hard time figuring out why this is a *huge* problem.
Ok, so I'm going to have to tweak my TOS so my buyers feel free to email me to ask if I have another widget (9 times out of 10 I don't, but it's never been a hassle to email someone that).
I must be missing something since I see so many old timers up in arms, while I can't muster more than an eyeroll and a few mutters about 'stupid ebay tricks'.
I mean, ebay can have rules all day and all night.....doesn't mean they will enforce them. Doesn't mean they will train the staff on the new rules.
posted on December 22, 2000 02:38:11 PM
Amy ..... If you've read my comments closely, I think you'll see what the changes coming down the pike are going to be.
No biggie to me, personally, I like them.
Yes, more changes are coming. That's for sure and as with any change, some will benefit more than others and some will not benefit at all.
There's no way to tell for sure EXACTLY what eBay will do. Lots of proposals and alternatives are continually being hashed out and the voices groups are NOT involved in ALL of the planning. Not by a long shot.
I personally, am not generally optimistic about what I've seen of the proposed plans. BUT, I don't know if what I've seen, will actually come to pass.
We'll all get to be surprised together. I can tell you that eBay sure doesn't try to make things worse (even though sometimes it does seem that way) LOL!
posted on December 22, 2000 05:39:09 PM
Reddeer...I'm pretty sure your predictions are close to the mark.
Ray...I don't think ebay ever sets out to make things worse...sometimes it just looks that way
Actually, in the end it won't make that much difference. A few will leave, most of us will adapt. As Reddeer points out, there are good points and it will solve some of the problems people complain about.
I just wish they would stop trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater!
posted on December 22, 2000 06:06:56 PM
Well, looks like eBay is test driving some of these new features already.
On the eBay Canada site, when clicking on a sellers user ID, instead of getting their user history & email addy, a link popped up with the following.
.....................................
Use this form to ask a seller a question related to this listing. The recipient will receive an email with your return address.
posted on December 22, 2000 06:13:57 PM
The "ask seller a question" link takes you to the same link/page. It's an online form that you must submit via eBay.
Glenda ...... Good thing we didn't bet, huh?
Go here & check it out for yourself. Looks like all the Candian auctions have this new online "ask seller a question" form feature in place.
posted on December 22, 2000 06:38:28 PMReddeer: That's not the same as Yahoo, though. On Yahoo, when you ask a question, the question is posted on the auction page somewhere and the seller answers on the auction page. This form sends an email to the seller - at the top of that form it says: "Use this form to ask a seller a question related to this listing. The recipient will receive an email with your return address."
Now, of course, they COULD eventually fix it so you can't ever get each other's email address, and all communication would have to be done using eBay forms. I don't know if they'll do that; I certainly hope not, as my experience with it on EZBoard indicates it's a pain. (You get the email like normally, but you have to come back to use a form to reply.)
must be from the same source as the idiot who made the "Approve all bidders" new tool prior to selling to someone, when what we needed was to BLOCK certain bidders...
...Amazing....
