posted on January 6, 2001 06:47:57 AM
As always Hart Cottage is 100% accurate! Thanks for the informative post HCQ. Thrifts do NOT exist to sell goods to the poor. If that were the case then why would there be so many thrifts in affluent areas? One of the most profitable thrifts of all(and one of the most legendary) is on upper Madison Avenue in NYC. One of the wealthiest areas in the world!
Thrifts exist to help FUND the charity that owns them -- get stuff free and resell it, thereby making $$. Goodwill also has the added benefit of helping mentally and physically handicapped by employing and training them. However, part of the problem with thrifts is greed ... certainly not the greed of the charity, it's the greed of SOME of the people who manage their retail operations. Many of them are dealers (we all know that!) and skim off merchandise for themselves (overprice it ... it doesn't sell ... re-price it and sell it to themselves) and then resell it at fleas or to their friends with retail shops. In my earlier post I mentioned a dealer we knew who did this all the time. She made a fortune selling stuff she "bought" from the thrift she managed.
Then, there's the infamous case of the three sisters who worked for Goodwill who were stealing (along with their spouses) thousands of dollars worth of stuff every week. Weren't they reselling it on eBay? Can't remember how they were fencing it, anyone know?
posted on January 6, 2001 06:53:47 AM
HartCottageQuilts: I think this is the first time you have posted a reply to something I wrote!
I may have been mis-informed. I know at the time MANY other employees were having a hard time getting benefits they deserved and I was told that I couldn't collect unemployment. At the time I worked there I was pregnant and decided to take a maternity leave. The main office told me that I couldn't collect any money while I was off work. I didn't look into it further because I had been told that they don't pay for unemployment benefits so figured they didn't pay for maternity leave either (am sure it was a mistake not checking). I ended up not returning after having my daughter. I am sure there are some decent branches but I believe the branch I worked for didn't want to pay its employees any more than they had to and hid behind the fact that they are a religious organization.
Not sure if this was discussed before by the way. I believe the subject of Goodwill and Thrift Store pricing comes up every so often and everything associated with it
posted on January 6, 2001 07:56:01 AM
Everybody come to my Goodwill. All kids clothes $2 or $3--can't remember which. Ladies sweaters $3. Pants and tops $4. Coolest thing was last spring to get rid of sweaters they were 50% off -- I bought some really nice $1.50 sweaters!
posted on January 6, 2001 09:00:53 AM
Well, call me heartless, but...
I can't seem to work up a whole lot of sympathy for the poor rich folks who pull up in their Jaquars and Rolls...moaning and groaning about the prices.
Hell, the hourly flat rate alone for repairing those cars is probably more than $75.
posted on January 6, 2001 09:09:13 AMkiki2, time taken off for maternity leave, or any unpaid voluntary leave, is NOT covered by unemployment insurance, nor has it ever been covered. Unemployment covers LOSS of a job through layoff and, in some cases, plain old firing IF the employee was not fired "for cause" (and this varies from state to state. Moreover, to collect unemployment you have had to be employed full-time for a certain period, usuall something like six consecutive months out of the past 20; the specifics vary from state to state, as does the length of time for which you may collect benefits.
posted on January 6, 2001 09:27:31 AM
HartCottageQuilts: Oh, I know that! I meant that I didn't ask for my maternity benefits because I figured there weren't any because they said they don't pay unemployment, they most likely didn't pay any other kind of benefits of that nature as well. I knew I wouldn't get unemployment. Sorry for the confusion! Still, I DO know that when I began working there my boss told me that if it got slow and they let people go, that they couldn't collect unemployment. Obviously, that was false information.
Edited: I tried to make something in bold and it didn't work!
posted on January 6, 2001 09:41:07 AM
OK you guys... I dreamed about this thread last night. I was in Goodwill digging through all kinds of stuff. I saw a sweater for $59.95 and some little autographed books for $2.93.
And I woke up with the tremendous urge to go thrift store shopping!
posted on January 6, 2001 12:11:32 PM
Goodwill is generally too expensive. I don't buy anything they have "regular priced" unless it's unbelievably wonderful and for my own personal use. I do, however, shopt their "color sales" regularly. This is where they mark things down based on the color of the tag, i.e. all pink tagged items are half off and all yellow are $.99. I've found many great deals (for eBay and otherwise) this way (like a 2 pc Liz Claiborne silk skirt suit with gold threading throughout for $.99 that I sold for $40 on eBay), and it's the ONLY way to shop Goodwill affordably, IMO.
posted on January 6, 2001 12:31:38 PM
Texas does seem to have a high number of thrifts, at least my area does (San Antonio and the Texas Hill Country). That would be one major concern of mine should I ever leave this place... are there thrifts galore in the Midwest (where I've considered moving just to have 4 seasons)?? LOL
In close proximity to me I have six that I can think of off the top of my head, and those are all within 10 miles (2 are Goodwill, 4 others). I have no idea how many there are in the city, but I suspect there are TONS. In my Grandma's little small town 30 miles north there are 3 really good ones, and in New Braunfels (where I lived previously, population about 30,000, 30 minutes up the road from me NE) there are some of the best ones I've ever been too, and *cheap*.
Time for a little road trip!
I'm in the mood to thrift shop after reading this thread!
posted on January 6, 2001 12:36:57 PM
I DRIVE BY OUR GOODWILL EVERY WEEKDAY WHEN I TAKE THE KIDS TO SCHOOL,ON MY WAY HOME I GO IN TO SEE WHATS NEW (THEY STOCK AT NIGHT). I HAVE BEEN THERE SO MANY TIMES THAT THE SORTING GUYS LET ME LOOK BEFORE IT HITS THE FLOOR AND MAKE NOTES ON WHAT TO BUY THE NEXT DAY. GUESS WHAT? NOTHING THAT IS WORTH $ GETS THERE! I SAW A MINT IN THE BOX SET OF JADE ROSE-HOMER LAUGHLIN 3 BOXES,SO I WENT IN TO BUY IT THE NEXT DAY,AND THE NEXT,ECT.. AFTER 14 DAYS I WENT TO THE HEADQUARTERS AND TOLD THEM,GUESS WHAT I DONATE MY TIME DOING? HAVE GOT 4 THEIVES FIRED SO FAR!! I LOVE IT,THIS IS MY GOOD DEED FOR CHARITY.
posted on January 6, 2001 02:10:16 PM
Wow, I wish there were more thrifts here in the Northeast. We mostly have Goodwills. At least 8 in the general vicinity. And most are nice. A lot of quality items. I will give them that. Believe me when I say that I never see a needy person in any of them Ever....
There are 3 Salvation Armys but there really isnt a lot of nice stuff in there. But I do find a lot of vintage clothing there!
I know of of only 2 thrift shops in my area. I donate my childrens clothes to these thrifts. They do get a lot of needy people in there. And, they appreciate when I drop stuff off. Not like the GW. Heaven forbid I drop a piece of clothing off that came from the Kmart rack! Slap me for thinking that they could put a realistic price on it and actually sell it to a needy person.........
[ edited by pumpkinhead on Jan 6, 2001 02:12 PM ]
posted on January 6, 2001 04:57:25 PM
I guess we're lucky around here. All sweaters are priced @ $2.99, jeans $2.99, dresses $3.99, hb books 50 cents, pb books 25 cents, ties 79 cents, etc. They do have a special section of garments, usually no more than 15 pieces, that are marked higher. The main problem I have found on prices being too high at my local GoodWill are on the housewares and toys. They're individually priced and I think the people pricing them don't know what they're doing sometimes. I've seen collectible glass for 25 cents to $1.00 and pure junk priced @ $20.00. However, after some of the prices in your communities, I won't complain about the prices in mine anymore. = )
posted on January 6, 2001 05:00:45 PMpumpkinhead, read the thread again. The purpose of the thrift shops is NOT to "sell to a needy person", but to provide sheltered workshops and job-related training to the disabled.
posted on January 6, 2001 05:41:46 PM
I Visit the SA's and like stores. YES..there are some people who "have money" that shop there...but I see many people that are shopping there to get clothing for their family members out of necessity.
I have visited a 2nd hand store that takes in donations.
No matter what the name brand, they sell the clothing all at the same price. (Jeans are one price, all 2 pc. clothing are one price and so on.)
Yes, they could make a higher profit by raising prices, but they feel, money should not be the ONLY factor. They feel that by selling these items at reasonable prices, this enables them to help even MORE people.
Like people who are between jobs, or people who are on disability/pension incomes. Then theirs the elderly who are on that fixed income. People who cannot afford to get nice clothing at the Retail prices.
There are many people that are desperately trying to make it on their own without assistance. This gives them the chance to afford Suzy's/Bobby's 'new' winter coat.
Yes, the Rich shop there, but so do the Middle Class and Poor.
Many people are in need and have their pride and don't want a handout. If they can manage a few dollars, for needed clothing, without asking for help and it makes them feel good about themselves; shouldn't that be a Part of the SA's and like stores, mission?
It's not ONLY the $$$ profit amount that helps the poor and needy.
Let's not forget that.
posted on January 6, 2001 07:49:00 PM
The purpose of the thrift shops is NOT to "sell to a needy person", but to provide sheltered workshops and job-related training to the disabled.
HCQ: Yes, I understand that the purpose of these thrifts is to provide for the disabled. So, I guess that makes it okay for them to charge retail prices on 2nd hand clothing? Not in my book. I was always under the assumption that you could find nice items at a price that was lower than retail..Or, am I the only one who thinks this way: You donate items that you no longer need, and you buy items at lower prices. Thats why people shop there. The GW cant survive if their prices are at a retail level. Who is going to shop there if that is the case? I also thought that when I dropped items off at the GW, that maybe some of it would be appreciated by a family who could otherwise not be able to afford it. I guess the GW have proven me wrong.
[ edited by pumpkinhead on Jan 6, 2001 07:50 PM ]
posted on January 6, 2001 08:46:34 PM
Pumpkinhead:"I was always under the assumption that you could find nice items at a price that was lower than retail..Or, am I the only one who thinks this way"
You are not alone ~ I agree with you!!
Salvage and Thrift Operations
Salvage Operation picks up throughout Greenville County donations of clothing, shoes, furniture, household items and appliances. Items not used to provide for Salvation Army clients and the needy are sold in our four thrift stores. Thrift store sales fund the alcohol and drug rehabilitation program, as well as providing reasonably priced goods to the public, many of whom would not be able to purchase needed items at conventional retail outlets.
posted on January 7, 2001 06:13:46 AMpsalms139, please note that you've quoted text from the Salvation Army, not from Goodwill.
So, I guess that makes it okay for them to charge retail prices on 2nd hand clothing? Not in my book
IOW, pumpkinhead, Goodwill should not charge whatever the market will bear? I would think that if you donated items to Goodwill, you would want that organization to get as much $$ as it could for those items, since that revenue supports Goodwill's programs.
What I think is particularly funny, in light of your insisting that thrift stores' target customers are are supposed to be the "poor and needy" is your comment that "I could easily spend $75.00 in there a week....If I wanted to pay retail, I would go to the mall."
Apparently in your "book", having enough disposable income to spend $75/week on clothes - and even having the option of going to the mall and paying retail - puts you among the "poor and needy."
Pardon me, but I am ROTFLMAO.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Jan 7, 2001 06:15 AM ]
posted on January 7, 2001 06:38:54 AM
I think maybe the point is why would anybody, on a budget or no, spend $10 for an item at the Goodwill that has been used, and needs to be washed or dry cleaned, and maybe the hem tacked up or stain removed, when they can spend $12 or $15 and get it brand new. Hypothetical item of course.
I also think the point is that when Goodwill prices approach retail prices, the tendency will be to go retail. Why wouldn't you? It would be stupid not to. It doesn't do the Goodwill or their constituency much good to have items that are marked with higher prices and not selling. Doesn't the Goodwill benefit more to sell five items at 5 dollars each than to mark two similar items at 10 dollars each and never sell them?
We are fortunate to have numerous thrift stores in our area as well as a consignment store on every corner (seems like). Even though the prices at ALL the thrifts have risen, they still stay within the bounds of reason and are nowhere near retail. Tshirts are now 2.99 instead of 1.99, trousers are 4.99 instead of 2.99, but they aren't 20 dollars apiece. That kind of pricing benefits nobody including the organization. They also have sale days, some of them for specific themes (all sweaters, all furniture, all books or whatever), others use a color coding system, so all pink tags are half price or whatever. Consignment stores tend to specialize in brand names only and start at half retail except for the most unusual items and go down a percentage every week ... then if they don't sell they end up at the Goodwill or another thrift.
If the Goodwill marks the original consignment store item up to close to retail, it's just going to sit again until it's sold to a rag trader. Since rag traders buy by the pound, nobody has benefitted. Not the buyers who want to sell on Ebay, not the buyers who want it for themselves, not the people on low incomes or budgets trying to clothe themselves or their kids, and not the Goodwill organization itself.
Somewhere there is a happy medium. Close to retail isn't it.
posted on January 7, 2001 09:36:51 AMgoodv, I think we're on the same page. "Close to retail" isn't appropriate for a thrift store for the sole reason that the item just won't move at that price. The item should be priced at what the market will bear.
I suspect that what thrift store management has discovered is that, come the ebay revolution, its giveaway-priced merchandise was stampeding out of the shop. A couple shops in our area were virtually empty of merchandise at times early last year; their sorters/cleaners/pricers literally couldn't keep up with sales. There's no advantage in that to the charity which the shop is supposed to benefit. The pendulum has now swung the other direction, with management overcompensating and sometimes overpricing. If the shop's gross doesn't turn out to be what's projected, or there's a backlog of inventory, prices will drop.
It's already happened in one shop here. The SA eliminated its "boutique" and repriced its regular merchandise from $1/each to $1-5 each, all color-coded. Seems to be doing quite well, from what they tell me. Of course, I don't expect to be getting any more $5 quilts, but that's the breaks
I have to disagree with you regarding whether the thrift benefits from selling by the pound to textile recyclers. Often thrifts receive so much donated clothing it's the only cost-effective way to move it. The cost of sorting and pricing hundreds of e.g. T-shirts outweighs any potential profit, even at half a dollar apiece. There are only so many T-shirts one shop can merchandise before it's so glutted that it actually starts competing with itself. Each operation must determine for itself how best to generate the revenue necessary to support the charity in question.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Jan 7, 2001 09:42 AM ]
posted on January 7, 2001 10:34:59 AM
HartCottageQuilts:psalms139, please note that you've quoted text from the Salvation Army, not from Goodwill.
I'm sorry if you did not understand my post.
I was agreeing with Pumpkinhead.
You are right ~ I did not quote Goodwill nor did my post say that was from Goodwill. My post expressly mentions the SA.
posted on January 7, 2001 01:03:19 PM
I know you were agreeing with pumpkinhead. I was attempting - apparently vainly - to point out to you that unlike the SA (whose text you quoted), Goodwill's purpose is not to sell low-cost second-hand items to those who can't afford better, but to provide sheltered workshops and job training for the disabled; the more money they get for the items they sell, the more work and job training they can provide.
IOW, your quote doesn't apply to pumpkinhead's gripe about Goodwill.
Am I speaking some foreign language or something? What is so hard to understand about this?
posted on January 7, 2001 04:34:45 PMHartCottageQuilts:I agreed with Pumpkinhead. Period.
I was attempting - apparently vainly - to point out to you that unlike the SA (whose text you quoted), Goodwill's purpose is not to sell low-cost second-hand items to those who can't afford better, but to provide sheltered workshops and job training for the disabled; the more money they get for the items they sell, the more work and job training they can provide.
I'm sorry you thought I was referring to the Goodwill...I was not. I was speaking of the SA. You and others in this thread have also talked about the SA. Not the Goodwill solely.
I'm fully aware that the SA and Goodwill are not the same and I'm sure that everyone who has commented on this post realizes that.
However, maybe we want to believe that the Goodwill has the heart of helping the people who do shop at their thrift stores.
I quoted from the SA site to say, they do care about the people shopping in their thrift stores. Yes, they have appropriated moneys to go in many different directions...but one of them is to help the needy who shop in their thrift stores.
Now that you said: to point out to you that unlike the SA (whose text you quoted), Goodwill's purpose is not to sell low-cost second-hand items to those who can't afford better ,
Are you saying that the SA Thrifts indeed DO sell low-cost second-hand items to those who cannot afford better?
In your earlier post you said: "Thrift shops" run by charities such as the Salvation Army and St. Vincent de Paul are not set up to be low-cost "discount stores" where "the poor" can buy clothing.
Am I speaking some foreign language or something? What is so hard to understand about this?
Because a person/persons may not always agree with you, does not mean they do not understand.
mrssantaclaus CHEERS to St. Vincent dePaul! You are right.....That is the way it should be!
When we KNOW that our giving goes to a good cause, it makes us want to give to that organization.
posted on January 7, 2001 05:52:53 PMmaybe we want to believe that the Goodwill has the heart of helping the people who do shop at their thrift stores
Yes indeed, we should always stick with what we "want to think" rather than the facts.
This isn't a matter of "disagreement", but one of gross misinterpretation of the facts. You are inferring since you see low-income people buying merchandise at thrift shops, the PURPOSE of those shops must be to be low-cost shopping alternatives to make their "poor" patrons "feel good".
From the national Goodwill Industries site:
Goodwill serves disadvantaged people by educating, training and placing them into jobs. By becoming gainfully employed, these individuals gain resources to buy the things they need.
Noplace does Goodwill say its mission is to provide low-cost shopping alternatives for the poor.
SA's primary purpose in collecting donations is to "provide for Salvation Army clients and the needy". These items are distributed FREE to those in need. The remainder, sold in thrift stores, produces revenues to fund rehab programs. LAST on the list - and notably only on your local site - is mentioned providing merchandise at a "reasonable cost" to the public - which is different from selling merchandise at a deep discount as a charity measure. The SA Western Division site says donations are resold "to help fund our community based services". No mention of providing low-cost goods.
But the question just begs to be answered: If, as you and pumpkinhead insist, thrift shops exist so the "needy" can shop in them, why on earth would management let what you the "Rich" and the "Middle class" in the door? And how do folks like pumpkinhead, with $75 week disposable income for clothing, go about classifying themselves as members of the "needy"?
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Jan 7, 2001 05:57 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2001 05:57:41 PM
If you're shopping at Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc, you're buying retail! It does not matter if the goods are donated or not. Donated only means that their costs are low, not your prices.
HCQ is correct, their goal is to make money........ but the difference is who actually reaps the benefits of the hard work.
This of it as a pyramid with a very broad base.
At the bottom are the disabled workers (mentally handicapped, blind, what have you). These people are paid BELOW minimum wage. WHY? Because the law allows them to be paid below minimum wage because of their disability, not because of their productity. Remember! If you're reading this thead, and you're collecting SSI from Social Security, you're qualified to work in these sheltered workshops. The people who are running these workshops are fighting against legislation to demand minimum wage for the workers.
And now you have the top of the pyramid. About a dozen people, not disabled, with salaries ranging from the low 6 figures to about 50K/year, plus the very top boxes are provided homes, cars, servants and a slew of other perks.
How can they afford to pay these people so much for doing so little?
They pay the people who do the actual work, less than minimum wage. They do not promote them to supervisory positions, so experienced workers langish on the assembly lines with no hope of improving their lot.
These sheltered sweat shops receive preferential government contracts with lucrative payoffs because they hire disabled workers. The sad and truely unfair part of this is......... the fat cats at the top skim off the cream and the majority are left to make do with the subsistance level wages they are paid.
Unfortunately, I have not seen their placement figures so I can not comment as to whether they place their people in competative employment after receiving their "training", but people I have spoken to, call these places "dead end jobs with below minimum wages and no hope of anything more".
So next time you shop at Goodwill, think of the people who are being exploited for your shopping pleasure.
Rosiebud,
Member, National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas, and saddly some of our members are caught up in the chains of "sheltered workshops".
edited for spelling but then I realized there were too many *L*
posted on January 7, 2001 07:40:11 PM
Hartcottagequilts:
Yes indeed, we should always stick with what we "want to think" rather than the facts.
We all have opinions.. we are all entitled to them.
If I want to believe a nice thought about an organization that does not mean that I am inferring anything and I'm sorry you felt I did.
However, maybe we want to believe that the Goodwill has the heart of helping the people who do shop at their thrift stores.
That's the only thing I said about Goodwill. I am sorry if you read so much more in a mere hope/opinion of mine.
LAST on the list - and notably only on your local site - is mentioned providing merchandise at a "reasonable cost" to the public - which is different from selling merchandise at a deep discount as a charity measure.
I did not say anything about deep discounts as a charity measure.
Concerning the SA, I said : "Yes, they have appropriated moneys to go in many different directions...but one of themis to help the needy who shop in their thrift stores."
I never said, that was the MAIN purpose or the ONLY purpose of the SA and I'm sorry if that is what you thought I meant.
The SA Western Division site says donations are resold "to help fund our community based services". No mention of providing low-cost goods.
Some divisions are different.
But the question just begs to be answered: If, as you insist, thrift shops exist so the "needy" can shop in them, why on earth would management let what you the "Rich" and the "Middle class" in the door?
I did not say that the thrift shops exist ONLY for the needy.
rosiebud:I agree that these organizations are there to make money to help others. Money is not the only way to help people, and I'm glad these organizations know that.
At one of the Goodwill's I visit...the Blind are the ones working the register. They are wonderful people!
I agree with you that our government needs to do something different. I believe that some of the people in higher places could make a difference within each store.
I, like others that have posted on here, not only shop at these stores but we give in return too.
Best Wishes to you in your work to help people!
Goodnight All!
[ edited by psalms139 on Jan 7, 2001 07:43 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2001 09:45:39 PM
Well I find GOODWILL here to be a JOKE, though I did find a ZAXXON Table Top Arcade game there for $4.00 which I sold on Ebay for $54, but that's 1 item out of a years worth of trips there, I dont even bother now.
Our other LOCAL Charity Thrift Store. Which will go unnamed, has a person looking the supposedly Ebay-able stuff up on EBAY. It's laughable. There was a MINT condition SUPERMAN MINI PINBALL Machine (circa 1984), that fetched $12.
They got one that's all busted up & moldy looking & priced it at.. YOU GUESSED it $12 (I know this cuz I went home to check it, cuz it was one of the "GOODIES" placed behind the counter. Well that was in May I believe.. Guess what it's still there. SHEESHH get a CLUE!!..
posted on January 7, 2001 09:53:48 PM
I am not against charging a reasonable price for any item at any thrift stores,what gets me in when I see what the money REALLy goes for! It is not for their programs or their workers,it is for the administrators and the board members to get their big fat salarys. They all have to post a yearly report in the newspaper,they gross millions with the majority going to pay the people who run the programs,not to pay their disabled workers,store employees (these two groups barely make enough to survive)or for expenses of running the charity. It has become BIG business-millions of dollars. I for one,am tired of donating to organizations that give these administrators and the others who run the program,big bucks to live the easy life. As far as I am concerned,they should donate their time,just as we donate our goods. All the monies should go directly back into the community for programs and for paying above minimum wage for their disabled,disadvantaged employees. Just my opinion!
posted on January 7, 2001 10:00:43 PM
I'm with you rosiebud,I have read their annual report,in my local newspaper. The salaries they pay themselves is unbelieveable!
