posted on January 17, 2001 10:09:01 AM new
Staying... But the timing stinks. USPS just upped rates, UPS is going to up rates next month. I had a feeling that $1.60 a gallon gas was going to do this to the whole economy. It ain't gonna get better for a while folks.
Next time we send an army into the middle east, we need to keep what we take.
We simply do things differently. You go for volume. I assume that means lower dollar sales, listing 1200 auctions per month that you can mostly use a template on to save tons of time.
I (mostly) go for the higher dollar items that I don't have to list that many of, but I labor over the descriptions and photos. I might list 1000 auctions per year. I pack and ship fewer items, but some of the items I sell are more difficult and costly to pack--finding boxes is sometimes a problem. I go through plenty of bubble wrap. Hi volume sellers likely have it easier on the packing end--selling a lot of like items that go into standardized mailers, etc.
It's a trade off, but sellers like me will not be affected that much by the increase. What's it going to cost me? $100.00 a year maybe? I understand that high volume/lower dollar sellers are the ones that will feel the pinch.
[ edited by loosecannon on Jan 17, 2001 10:25 AM ]
posted on January 17, 2001 10:18:29 AM new
That's true, obviously. But ebay is as much about smaller dollar amounts as it is higher dollar amounts (I sell collectibles and memorabilia by the way so it's not as if I sell those annoying "Secrets For Success On Ebay!!!! L@@K!!!!" cds in bulk that many feel ruin the charachter of ebay).
Basically the reason I'm so annoyed is not the money by itself but the fact that ebay did it just "because". That's not a great reason, in my opinion. Smacks of "it's only a dollar" although in this case "it's only a nickel". For me, and others like me it can end up costing nearly $2000 a year with no resulting improvement in service at all.
mrpotatoheadd:
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Jan 17, 2001 10:19 AM ]
posted on January 17, 2001 10:30:33 AM new
Fee increases always bring out the most interesting reactions in people. Take the dime increase in the 10 day auctions - and the various people who are going to stop doing 10 day auctions. It makes me wonder...if 10 day auctions produce higher bids, won't it still be better to keep them as 10 day auctions? And if they didn't, why bother with longer auctions to start with (most bidders prefer shorter auctions, plus you get faster cash flow that way). Or if you have no idea if they work better, perhaps a staggered experiment would be better than just stopping them?
Fee increases aren't pleasent (and one really does wonder what, if any, improvements will result from this one), but on the other hand, they should be managed, not reacted to.
posted on January 17, 2001 10:51:38 AM new
Obviously everyone would like more for their money. So when the cost of something increases, folks naturally think that they should get more than they got before.
In the case of a business that provides a service rather than a product, like eBay or the post office, folks often voice their disappointment at price increases by saying things like "if they at least improved their service I wouldn't mind the extra cost".
This leads to the interesting observation that when a material object increases in price the reaction is almost always unmitigated disappointment. No one goes about muttering how they wouldn't mind the increase in gas prices if only the octane rating were increased as well.
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I doubt if the eBay fee increases have anything directly to do with lining the pockets of the execs.
Given the blood-letting among the dot.coms of late, eBay must show increased revenues and profitability or it will tank on Wall Street. Now, certainly, the big execs will be hurt should this happen. But far worse is that eBay will lose the confidence of the financial markets and additional capital will be harder to come by and far more costly.
Raising the fees will also accomplish some other possible goals of eBay...
By squeezing the small time "Mom & Pop" sellers eBay will both reduce the number of "small" auctions that it is hosting and will make the ones that remain less unprofitable for eBay to host.
Increased revenues will also help eBay to continue to acquire other businesses without having to go to the financial markets for the necessary capital. This can be very important as Wall Street absorbs the generally bad news about the technology sector. If eBay can continue to grow then Wall Street will be happy.
The increase in the 10 day auction fee is probably intended to cover some of the cost of the extended time the auction is on eBay but more probably eBay's way of finally controlling the number of 10 day auctions. Remember the institution of the fee for reserve items?
Finally, any company that has a virtual monopoly of the marketplace can do whatever it pleases by way of pricing. The only "competition" to such a monopoly is "abstinence" on the part of the consumers. In eBay's case the sellers are NOT the consumers. The buyers are the consumers. If the buyers are not put off by the sellers' pass through of their increased operating costs then all of this wailing and gnashing of teeth is just a tempest in a teapot.
posted on January 17, 2001 11:21:06 AM new
Great insight, captainkirk and codasaurus, on oft-overlooked aspects of this issue.
I also suspect that if even if ebay DID improve its services and then raised its rates, everybody'd be complaining anyway, with choruses ranging from "Nobody asked US whether we wanted 'better' or 'cheap'" to "Those aren't the improvements WE wanted" to "Improvements? WHAT improvements?"
posted on January 17, 2001 11:32:55 AM newcodasaurus...
Why do you say the buyers are eBay's consumers? Since sellers pay the fees and give eBay it's income, why do you not consider sellers eBay's consumers?
I've seen this POV before, but fail to understand it.
posted on January 17, 2001 11:49:25 AM new
I list items with a minimum bid of $1.00 and no reserver, they sell on the average for $90.00. There is no other on-line auction I can list this way or get the sales I get. If you list items for retail you can go to Billy-Bob's Auctions, if you don't you are taking a helluva risk.
posted on January 17, 2001 12:56:43 PM new
codasaurus: EXCELLENT POST!
Buyers are eBays consumers, because (for now) whether or not you or I continue to list on eBay, the buyers WILL find what they're looking for via another sellers listings ... most likely on the pages eBay.
code makes a good point, UNLESS buyers become turned off by the added expenses that sellers (should) pass on to them... the eBay auction machine continues.
IF buyers decide that they can find items being offered for less on other sites (let's face it, Yahoo! & Amazon don't have a problem with Name Brand Recognition... they've never been able to catch up with the volume of listings) then what eBay charges sellers will become much less important, as sellers would gladly list elsewhere for LESS and offer items at prices that reflect lower overhead.
No single site has managed to draw a large enough crowd of SELLERS offering deals (like they USED to on eBay) and BIDDERS willing to BID, to make any impact!
I'm STAYING at eBay. I'll cut back on some of the "bells and whistles" AND I'll concentrate on growing some traffic for my items on other sites at the same time.... offering items for slightly less - since it will cost me less - and encourging folks in EOAs to check out my other listings (and my website) if they are happy with the items they've already purchased from me.
I have no idea what the solution will be for sellers of dime store and left over Wal-mart type stock items. Perhaps they will seek profits in other venues.... drawing some bidders with them.
MERELY COMPLAINING & "dirt slinging" will accomplish NOTHING at this point in eBays sandbox. *sigh*
posted on January 17, 2001 01:21:11 PM new
Conversely...if the sellers went to another site...so would the buyers and eBay would have zip. Perhaps it's a symbiotic relationship...kinda, sorta...
I agree about the constant wishing that eBay will get its just deserts. The last thing I want, at this point, is to see them go under. And every time someone sues them, or there's another gruesome story in the papers...it hurts us.
People coming into our shop lately, have certainly changed their perspective on eBay. Where there used to be great interest and curiousity, there's now distrust. My DH mentions how many folks are telling him they'd never buy on eBay...because "it's full of crooks."
posted on January 17, 2001 01:47:18 PM new
I list about 5,000 auctions a year. Even if none of them had reserve fees and they all had low opening bids, that would be $250 per year. Sound like nothing, you say? That's my family's grocery bill for an ENTIRE month! And inevitably, some of my auctions do have reserves and higher opening bids, so the actual amount will be higher than $250. So I can't shrug off eBay's hand in my pocket, removing a month's worth of grocery money. Sorry folks. And how much can we actually "pass on" to our bidders before they will go away? I shudder now when I realize that a 5-pound package now costs $7.55 just in postage - but I have to pass that cost on, too!
posted on January 17, 2001 02:59:22 PM new
birdwatcher: man oh man... what are y'all eatin'??? I almost can't get out of the grocery store for that much... and I go at least once a WEEK. *sigh*
But I understand what you're saying... for many folks the nickle here, dime there... really is starting to add up.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the BIDDERS will continue to BUY, even with the postal hike and other fees associated with selling On Line being passed on to them.
Frankly, I'll bet some of the smaller auction sites and even Yahoo! & Amazon are probably excited about the possibility of sellers bringing their items to list (in the wake of the rising cost to do business on eBay)... knowing that bidders will follow for the selection and bargains available on "common" items.
BTW... I've been looking at www.dutchbid.com and www.auxpal.com for some added auction FUN... anybody have comments about either of those sites? (Auxpal is claiming that anyone who registers before March 10th of this year will NEVER have to pay listing fees, EVER - even if they begin charging for listings in the distant future) - I'm already registered... but sure thought that was a nice gesture.
Hmmmmm.... "Always Free".... where have we heard that before? *sigh*
posted on January 18, 2001 03:21:32 AM new
Ok, I've been checking my 10 day counters and it looks like I get the most hits the first 3 days and the last 3 days so dropping the 10 day auctions shouldn't be a problem for me. Just means I won't list some days when I don't want the auction to come off on that particular 7th day.
Haven't checked the bids but we know they come anywhere but mostly at the beginning and the end too so that shouldn't hurt either.
posted on January 18, 2001 06:57:03 AM new
I don't think that folks taking their listings elsewhere would ever cause a decision to "rollback" the recently announced new fee schedule.
PERHAPS less listings and less buying (due to higher opening bids as a result of sellers passing on some of these increases to the buyers) could cause the fine folks at eBay to really think hard before deciding whether or not to begin charging a "success fee" on BIN auctions in Q2 or Q3... but I have NO misgivings about whether or not eBay is committed to the new INSERTION FEE Schedule.
posted on January 18, 2001 08:10:36 AM new
What makes folks think that if some sellers abandon eBay that buyers will naturally and quickly follow?
Buyers come to eBay because of the wide selection of items available at any one time. And stay there because of the limited time to browse the web looking for the absolute best bargain.
I collect codebooks and acquire tinsmithing tools. I have been to other auction sites in the past and have rapidly abandoned doing searches for items I'm interested in because the other sites simply don't have what I'm looking for. Eventually, the other sites simply drop off my radar map.
If you sell collectibles, your choices are either eBay or a specialty site. The big plus for eBay over a specialty site is that many more folks may happen upon your auction.
If your eBay business model is that of a flea market booth then you need to rethink your approach. If you can't sell flea market type items on eBay for a reasonable profit then taking those items to another smaller web site simply won't work in the long run. You will still have the biggest costs associated with online selling. Postage, auction management, taking pictures, etc.
eBay fees are a drop in the bucket. If you can't absorb or pass on a 5 or 10 cent increase in eBay fees for the types of items you sell then you should be thinking about selling something else or perhaps getting out of the game.
posted on January 18, 2001 08:34:52 AM new
codasaurus,
I don't think it's simply a matter of absorbing a 5 or 10 cent increase. This follows hard on the heels of increases for postage & payment services.
When these increases are added together, it's quite an impact on both the seller & the buyer who must then pay more because the seller is having to pay more to offer the item.
Reviewing some items I regularly sell for less than $10, it's not just the 5 cent ebay fee but the fact the item now falls into the $3.95 priority rate as opposed to the previous $3.20 rate PLUS the increase in insurance prices PLUS the additional fees for PayPal/BillPoint.
Passing along all these increased costs to customers means the item may not be quite as attractive.
Now, that's the fortunes of business but each of these impacts, which have happened in a fairly tight timeframe, make it more difficult for the seller to bring an item to the marketplace at reasonable prices for the buyer.
Yes, I can easily absorb a nickel. My customers could easily absorb a nickel. But it's 5 cents here, 75 cents there, 30 cents for something else & suddenly it's not just the 5 cent increase most sellers are looking at anymore.
There's never a GOOD time for an increase but the timing of this one really hurt coming on top of the postal increase.
posted on January 18, 2001 09:36:03 AM new
How much are you grossing from those $10 items, eventer? IOW, are you buying them for $1 or $8? Are you selling unique items or duplicates?
posted on January 18, 2001 11:51:17 AM new
Thanks to a previous poster, I went to www.auxpal.com. Looks interesting so I registered and listed a few items that I am not in a big hurry to sell. But best of all, I found a couple of items I've been looking for at VERY reasonable prices so I bid for them. Will be continuing to list there for a while -- doesn't cost anything and perhaps as more sellers of low $ items move there, the bidders will follow.
I am including a package insert with all of my ebay stuff directing folks to that site for more items like the one they bought. Can't hurt and only costs a bit of time.
Really fast form for listing and you don't even need to upload your photos as they do that when you place your listing.
There are things about this site that I really like so I am crossing my fingers. However, I am still going to do some box lots at ebay and see how that goes. Sales are starting to drop off again after a HUGE spike at the beginning of January.
BTW my local antique mall showed a 30% decrease in sales in December(over previous December). Of course here in the tundra, weather has a lot to do with it but in over 10 years have never seen a decline of that magnitude.
[ edited by jadejim on Jan 18, 2001 11:52 AM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 12:21:30 PM new
I think the fees will have different degrees of impact depending on what type of item one sells. It is the overall TREND at eBay that disturbs some of us, and as someone else mentioned, climbing US postal rates, higher Billpoint/Paypal fees as well.
In my case, I sell primarily vintage jewelry and because the categories are SO glutted -- the success or failure of an item hinges on many factors beyond my control. It is a very changeable and volatile market, with an item not garnering a single bid one week, then going sky-high the following. It is largely a matter of LUCK in WHO sees the items, plus the unique nature of much of what I sell. My problem is not a 5-cent additional listing fee, but the fees that add up including reserves which in my area, are really a MUST. It's getting to the point where it isn't productive to list lower-end items, I can't count on my nicer items getting the prices they deserve (and no, I'm not UNrealistic) - - so with an unsuccessful auction, do I relist? Do I use Gallery? Do I try ten-days? There is no way to effectively gauge PATTERNS of success because they don't exist in my category. It is random and often beyond my control.
The solution for me is to abandon the idea that eBay can be anything but a hobby selling venue for me I guess. My website has been far more productive for me and the overhead costs are CAPPED.
eBay seems to be thumbing their nose at the mom-and-pop sellers, I guess we helped build them but they don't want/need us any more. Their bottom line profit is all that they care about. And if the day comes when they forbid links to websites, that will hurt my business profoundly.
Yeah, I see the writing on the wall and I'm usually much more optimistic than this. Doing eBay/website was a choice I made at a time when I wanted/needed a more flexible job situation, but perhaps it's time to re-evaluate that.
