posted on October 14, 2008 08:59:12 PM new
While it's possible to make the case that there is no relationship between dollars spent per student and quality of education, it's also quite true that the states with the lowest expenditures are generally also the states with the lowest standardized test scores. Don't get me wrong, as an educator I don't believe that standardized test scores are anything more than ONE measure of student performance, but the fact is that with No Child Left Untested, er I mean Left Behind, those scores are the be all and end all as far as the states and feds are concerned. How available funds are managed is as important as how much money is to be had, but sadly it's programs like art and music that are the first to go. Considering these programs to be "extras" or "enrichment" is unfortunately still the dominant attitude, in spite of the fact that music education has proven in study after study to help improve math scores.
In the end, whether private, charter or public school, parent involvement is the key to a kid's success. I went to public grade school and a private high school. My oldest daughter attended the same high school, but my younger two didn't want to leave home, so we didn't push it. For all the wonderful opportunities my daughter and I had that just can't be had in public high school, I have to say that neither one of us was necessarily better prepared for college. Our Diplomas perhaps helped get us into better colleges, but as for actual preparation I don't see much difference between my eldest and her younger siblings. Middle daughter is now doing quite well in college and the boy is taking AP courses as a senior in public high school and pulling a 4 point average and getting lots of attention from the colleges he's interested in. Parent involvement has to start from the get-go in Kindergarten and continue with great consistency through high school. No school can fully educate a child whose parents are absent from the process. I always love parent conferences, because for the most part the parents who show up are the ones who I don't need to see because their kids are doing well and I see them all the time around school anyhow. We get to sit around and schmooze and pat ourselves on the back and praise the kids...piece of cake, and so sad for those kids whose parents are "too busy".
posted on October 15, 2008 07:14:51 AM new
profe51,
My sister lives in Oklahoma and the school rates near the bottom. They passed a lottery a few years ago and promised that the revenue would go to education. Hasn't happened! Maybe, the government should step in a make all states comply to strict criteria.
***
A poll is not a prediction. It is a snapshot of how people are thinking right now.
posted on October 15, 2008 07:55:31 AM new
Profe, amen to that.
Even in a relatively enlightened town like mine, there is still too much emphasis on the standardized tests. Since my oldest is 27 and my youngest is 10, I've gotten to watch the shifting emphasis first hand over time.
BTW, I hope you don't think I was suggesting that more money towards education had no relationship to the quality of the education. The problem in New Jersey is the amount of corruption, at which we must lead the nation; it's why we have the highest cost car insurance, very high taxes relative to quality of infrastructure and services, etc. Additionally, it can cost more to educate a child whose home life, such as it is, doesn't include positive influences and whose immediate culture doesn't value scholarship. I don't for a minute doubt that it will cost more to bring the average Newark resident to the same standard as the average Millburn resident, even assuming identical intelligence at birth. My kids are growing up in a house full of books, with parents who enjoy reading, with any book they want as available as breakfast; how sad that many children grow up in homes where the joys of learning are something they (maybe) hear their teachers talk about, but for whom it isn't as natural as walking.
BTW 2, I think that studies that prove that music helps with math scores are useful, but there's a part of me that bristles. Art and music are valuable in their own right, but I guess if it makes funding more available because they help with math, so be it.
posted on October 15, 2008 08:43:06 AM new
Consistently, during the 3 years I taught junior high, the students who did the best were those whose parents were involved. I'm convinced that a child can get a very good education in a public school if his parents care.
Reading is the most important skill! Without the ability to learn through reading, and without the love of reading (cereal boxes, toothpaste tubes, anything!), children won't be able to speak and write well. We have to SEE how words are used on a page, grammatically and expressionwise, to be able to write well.
In our last home, in Northern Utah, our entryway had floor-to-ceiling bookshelves. When trick-or-treaters came to our door, most of them asked, first, if this was a library. I guess they couldn't believe any private household would have lots of books. Very sad.
Abe Lincoln had very few books; he learned the beauty of language from reading the Bible, and any other books he had at his disposal were probably read many times over.
posted on October 15, 2008 09:19:04 AM new
My parents, especially my father, instilled a love of reading that I hold to this day. I only hope that my children will enjoy it as much (2 are well on their way, it's a bit latent in the other 2 ). My parents, however, wouldn't bend on the rules against reading at family meals, so I set my alarm clock for an hour before anyone else would get up, just so that I could read without being rude. I know that reading while you're eating is regarded as bad for your health, and maybe it affected my waistline, but it was one of my favorite times of the day.
posted on October 15, 2008 10:37:51 AM new
I'm with you, Roadsmith and Cash! I loved reading as a child--comic books, Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, newspapers, magazines. My parents were readers, but not obsessively so. They always encouraged me to read. I had an aunt who used to give me her books after she read them, along with her review of each. Some of my favorite books were given to me by this beloved aunt. I have loved reading all my life and because of this, I am a great Trivial Persuit partner!
I now have a 9 year old niece for whom I used to babysit from infancy to about 6. We read at least an hour a day. When she was old enough, she read to me. When she reads aloud, it is not in the usual monotone. She is so expressive and animated and I love hearing her read.
[ edited by coach81938 on Oct 15, 2008 10:39 AM ]
[ edited by coach81938 on Oct 15, 2008 10:40 AM ]
posted on October 15, 2008 11:31:00 AM new
My kids are all great readers. Oldest daughter is the most bookish, and discovered the joys of reading literature early. The younger two are more apt to spend their time poring over scientific articles or biology texts. I'm constantly throwing them book suggestions but they find my choices a bit dark and heavy. "I can tell when you're reading those creepy McCarthy books" middle daughter recently said, "you're even broodier and grouchier than normal."
posted on October 15, 2008 04:00:27 PM new
I might have said this before, here? Teaching junior high high-IQ kids, I never worried about the kids who hid a book they wanted to read behind a textbook. I knew that if they loved reading that much, to do what I'd done in junior high, they'd always be readers AND always be able to find information they needed.
I've kept in touch with a few of them over these many years, and my refusal to worry about them proved to be correct. It's heartwarming to hear them telling me how much they appreciated that I made them buy Strunk & White's "Elements of Style." They say the book helped them a lot through college.
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posted on October 15, 2008 08:15:21 PM new
Put me down for one of those vouchers if McCain is sending untested, uncertified vets into the school system to solve our education problems.
posted on October 16, 2008 05:10:33 AM new
The voucher idea will kill the public school system. Again, he is talking to the more wealthy with that plan and not middle to low America.
***
A poll is not a prediction. It is a snapshot of how people are thinking right now.
Roadsmith wrote, "I've kept in touch with a few of them over these many years, and my refusal to worry about them proved to be correct. It's heartwarming to hear them telling me how much they appreciated that I made them buy Strunk & White's "Elements of Style." They say the book helped them a lot through college."
That's remarkable. My favorite English teacher in high school never mentioned William Strunk or his grammar book.
Instead, I would thank her for her enthusiasm, knowledge of great literature and for the list of books that she gave her students to read. With that list and her guidance I developed a love of reading which, among all the gifts that I have received is without equal.
I suspect that Mr. Strunk would find something to frown about in my sincere remark just as he might frown on my response to his frown.
posted on October 16, 2008 09:53:19 AM new
Good readers are generally better writers, but there has to be emphasis on mechanics if others are to appreciate what a writer has to say. This is particularly true of young students. Some years ago, universities around the country began sponsoring writers' workshops for teachers, so that they could become more effective writing teachers. Following the theory that teachers who are afraid to write will never be able to teach writing effectively, their focus was on creating a non-judgmental environment and relaxing the restrictions on creative writing topics. All well and good. These workshops have been very effective in helping teachers help their students overcome their fears of writing. Unfortunately, there was no emphasis on mechanics and structure of writing, and so in recent years we've got kids who have absolutely no problem cranking out several pages of nearly undecipherable gibberish. Paragraphs? Don't worry about those sweety, just let your imagination pour out onto the paper. There has to be some middle ground and schools are now realizing that. Strunk's book is one excellent resource that a student writer can have in his library. It's obviously not the authority that Professor Strunk thought it was in 1918. Form and style are particularly important on college papers and theses, and lots of students are ill prepared for these out of high school.
posted on October 16, 2008 10:53:11 AM new
My older daughter, 27 now, went to Boston College (a school that she decided on when she was 13 or 14).
Her SAT scores weren't tremendous, but she was a good student at a tough school. As much as I tried to convince her that she was worthy, she thought the SATs were a sign that she was wasn't quite up to snuff. She had anxiety problems taking multiple choice tests, and I tried to convince her that for all of the memos and papers I've had to write in the work force, I have not once been asked by my boss to take a multiple choice test.
In any case, she was very nervous going off to college, convinced that she would be discovered as an academic fraud. A week after classes started, she called me and told me that she was now relaxed and fitting in. She told me that high school had taught her two things which many of her classmates had not learned:
1 - she knew how to manage her time, and
2 - she knew how to write. A close paraphrase of what she said: "Dad, forget about a paper or a paragraph, most of these kids can't write a sentence."
posted on October 16, 2008 10:53:45 AM new
Thanks for your explanation, Profe.
"This is particularly true of young students. Some years ago, universities around the country began sponsoring writers' workshops for teachers, so that they could become more effective writing teachers. Following the theory that teachers who are afraid to write will never be able to teach writing effectively, their focus was on creating a non-judgmental environment and relaxing the restrictions on creative writing topics."
I was surprised to learn that the workshops were created because teachers were afraid to write.
posted on October 16, 2008 12:57:18 PM new
My best memory of high school was being placed in an experimental English class in sophmore year in the late 60's. The head of the English department and 2 other English teachers taught a class of about 50. It was the most wonderful class---strictly reading, writing and going to see a few Broadway plays. I still remember my paper comparing Inherit the Wind and A Case of Libel (good old Westbrook Pegler lost a libel suit to Quentin Reynolds.) We were taken to see both plays and then were assigned the paper. My proudest moment was when mine was picked to be read to the class.
posted on October 16, 2008 03:02:42 PM newI was surprised to learn that the workshops were created because teachers were afraid to write.
I know it's surprising, but it's sadly true. As someone who has hired and unfortunately fired a number of teachers, the best candidates for me are always individuals who have a degree in one of the liberal arts and then went back to school for their teacher certification hours. Those who come fresh out of college with BA's in Education are well versed in theory but are often woefully unprepared in content. This is particularly true for those seeking to teach grades 6 and up. In my experience, depending on the college, secondary education majors are required to have a firm grounding in their teaching field. For example, a person certified in Secondary social studies will usually have had a minor of 30 or more hours in history, sociology, anthropology etc. A pretty good starting point. At least they have some idea of the nature of social science. With elementary teachers, this is not often the case. In my state, a person with an elementary certificate can teach any subject in grades k thru 8. Only high school teachers are required to have a teaching minor. Elementary ed students will typically have only a few classes in the pedagogy of any core subject; 6 or 9 hours in language arts instruction for example. This isn't enough exposure to make them competent writers. Give me a "re-tread" applicant every time who's got a BA in English or Math or History plus the required 45 hours of pedagogy for a state certificate every time. That person will have a whole lot more writing and reading under their belt than a virgin with a BA in Elementary Ed.
). My parents, however, wouldn't bend on the rules against reading at family meals, so I set my alarm clock for an hour before anyone else would get up, just so that I could read without being rude. I know that reading while you're eating is regarded as bad for your health, and maybe it affected my waistline, but it was one of my favorite times of the day.