posted on February 8, 2001 12:36:40 PM
I guess I need to understand the business model that will allow a "free" site to continue being free forever, while still providing services to buyers and sellers, such as significant advertising to attract buyers in the first place!
Failing that, all I see are sites that start out "free" and eventually have to start charging fees, just like ebay (or who go out of business after a mediocre year or so of existence).
So why switch in this case? (other than for a long-run philosophical/business goal of providing competition to ebay, which is an interesting yet uncertain goal to say the least).
It might be more plausable to promise "lower" fees than ebay, but even that you'd have to show me. Yes, ebay is making a significant profit, but on the other hand, they have significant economies of scale that would be difficult for another site to duplicate. Even a non-profit co-op might end up costing MORE than ebay, let alone yet another profit-making site.
posted on February 8, 2001 12:54:04 PM
What kind of guarantees regarding fees/policies would convince you to seriously use another site for 6-12 months for part of your business?
posted on February 8, 2001 12:54:50 PM
spreland,
The last week I have had 43 items List and not sold but 2. You do the math, and keep using those free sites, less competition!!
posted on February 8, 2001 01:05:37 PM
I generate more in one week on eBay than a month on Yahoo. My last two items closed there and I won't be returning. I might give Bidville a try, but I have the feeling it might not be very productive.
posted on February 8, 2001 01:55:02 PM
With Yahoo gone as a free site, there's room for another one to come in and take over in the #2 auction slot. Who can it be? Frankly it depends on which site promotes the hardest.
Golds tried to make it but that was in the Free Yahoo days. It's a different scenerio now. Bidbay has gotten out of the starting gate quicker compared to Bidville and the others which is enough advantage for them to grow quickly enough to be viable as a good alternative.
Right now it is probably better to wait to see how they develop before wasting time listing there, or list a few things to give them your support.
For me, I put things that don't sell on ebay and put them onto a free site where auto relists save me time. I don't believe I'd come out ahead as far as quicker sale or making more profit on these items if they were listed on ebay. I figure anything that has 1:6 or higher chance of selling on ebay is more appropriate for a free site.
\"They say the grass is greener on the other side. But have you flipped it over and looked?
\"
posted on February 8, 2001 02:55:56 PM
My game is used books, and I know ebay isn't the only viable venue because I sell on half.com and Amazon. Of course, those are big sites that are drawing in customers who see my stuff, and buy if the price is right. If enough sellers are willing to list on a free site and take prices down a little bit, that might encourage bidders to visit and return. If it's a chicken or egg scenario, who is willing to step up and start laying a few eggs?
If the operators of the site are at all intelligent, sure, in time they will probably charge fees, but it will be FVF's, not the business-killing model over at Yahoo right now.
posted on February 8, 2001 03:03:04 PMWhat kind of guarantees regarding fees/policies would convince you to seriously use another site for 6-12 months for part of your business?
posted on February 8, 2001 03:16:12 PM
How much ownership? How would that work? Private investment? Private stock offering based on participation?
[ edited by rubylane on Feb 8, 2001 03:24 PM ]
posted on February 8, 2001 03:23:39 PM
Ebay is what every other auction site hopes to be. If any of them are fortunate enough to grow to any size, they will replicate the same problems sellers are trying to get away from.
They will increase fees, add new fees. Generate revenue through banner sales. Their customer support will collapse under the volume of calls and emails. Their policies will be selectively enforced as they will be unable to police the shear number of listings. We made Ebay what it is today by making them so successful. Had any of the other "now extinct" auction sites taken off, they too, would have followed Ebay's path to riches. And so will any that come in the future.
So why would anyone (free listings or not) want to invest their time, money, and inventory in making someone else rich when they know what they are going to do in return.
Invest your time and money and inventory in another source of revenue. Start your own website, and build that business to help you through the down times at Ebay. Rent a showcase in an antique mall. Do a couple shows. Wholesale your products to other sellers. Invest in yourself
posted on February 8, 2001 03:25:24 PM
Just sold first item on Bidville. Final price about 25% higher than I would have expected at ebay and no fees. Yes, bids are few and far between but I will invest some time listing there. My hope is that one day one of these sites will become a viable alternative to ebay.
I have tons of inventory and don't mind waiting to sell it. Also have a lot of low dollar, but very collectible stuff--just the right thing to help a new site along.
Am including package inserts with all my shipments directing folks to my auctions at Bidville for more of the kind of thing they have bought.
I seem to remember an old adage that had something to say about putting all one's eggs in one basket...........
posted on February 8, 2001 03:26:40 PM
Jim: I missed your comment, I must have been typing.
A percentage of the company. (no matter how small) A vested interest that would grow in value as the company grew in value. A long-term potential return in exchange for the long-term investment of time, money, and inventory required to make the site successful.
posted on February 8, 2001 03:57:08 PM
kez ... "My game is used books ... If enough sellers are willing to list on a free site and take prices down a little bit, that might encourage bidders to visit and return."
Well, my game is VHS tapes and DVD's. The starting bids on BidVille for these types of items are atrocious. It's no wonder they are not getting any bids - most of the newer used DVD's and tapes listed on BidVille can be purchased brand new at the B&M stores cheaper than the starting bids, and there are no additional costs for shipping.
I'm sorry to say, but in spite of the assumption that lots of sellers and very few bidders would lead to a buyer's market, it just isn't so on BidVille.
Until, or unless the majority of the sellers take your advice and start giving back some of the fees they used to pay on eBay (and Yahooooo) by lowering their starting bids, their products are going to just sit there and be relisted ad infinitum. That will make for a very boring and stagnant site.
I already sell at the antiques mall, do a show once in a VERY great while and have mixed success there--just like at on-line auctions. However, overall, I am quite profitable and have the time to invest.
Yes!!!! I would like to see an incentive in the form of some ownership and that would certainly increase the number of sellers listing at a new site. Bidders will go where the stuff they want can be found.
I've tried the website and storefront options and have found them to be more trouble than they are worth. In fact, the auction format does give us a certain expectation of safe trading and the ability to exercise considerable control over how we spend our time.
Lacking a better alternative at the present, I will continue to invest my time at Bidville. Should a coop or seller ownership option become available, I will do the same--and probably at an increased rate.
posted on February 8, 2001 04:08:06 PM
Hi RB - Actually, I don't think there ARE lots of sellers on Bidville yet, hence my hinting here on the ebay board. ; - )
It's tricky because, like at Yahoo, if you can't count on multiple bids, then you need to list at a higher opening price to protect any margin of profit. But there has to be a happy medium...low enough to entice bidders, high enough to insure profit.
Seems to me that ebay didn't spring fully formed out of the void, surely it started small and the sellers built it? Can it happen again?
posted on February 8, 2001 07:01:26 PM
jpf, You listed 43 items and had 2 sales and you want me to do the math. You sold 2 items and you did not have to deduct fees from your profits. If you only had 2 sales its very likely these items are not in big demand and you have to pay a large percentage of your profits to ebay to sell these items as fast as you can buy them. Wake up. Ebay owns you. You work for eBay.
posted on February 8, 2001 07:14:19 PM
captainkirk, You state that you pay more for you ISP than you pay to list with eBay. You are a hobbyist. Thats fine. You don't know how to sell your items without eBay so you pay the fees to make a little extra cash. Not exactly a do or die situation because you don't rely on your sales to support yourself. I make my living selling sports cards. This is why I do not use eBay.
posted on February 8, 2001 07:36:33 PM
"I make my living selling sports cards. This is why I do not use eBay."
I am sorry but that statement just does not make sense. That is like saying I make a living from retail, that is why I do not have a store in a higher priced area with more shoppers with more money to spend than any other place in the area can even come close to.
Or like having a web site that relies on search engine traffic but you won't list on yahoo because they charge you for a business listing.
Sales when done for a living is a numbers game and the 7% cost that it seems to average selling on Ebay is a very small number!
If I could open a second retail location in the busiest part of town for only 7% of my gross sales as rent I would jump at the chance.
You may want to take a look at this---Rich
http://www.genxi.com/mark/low/low.html
posted on February 8, 2001 07:47:37 PM
Sorry, my $350.00 shipping bill alone for this week is enough to keep me working later than I want to ... ebay sells stuff or is where the audience is for now.. I pay bills that way too!
posted on February 8, 2001 07:53:20 PM
spreland: "captainkirk, You state that you pay more for you ISP than you pay to list with eBay. You are a hobbyist. Thats fine. You don't know how to sell your items without eBay so you pay the fees to make a little extra cash. Not exactly a do or die situation because you don't rely on your sales to support yourself. I make my living selling sports cards. This is why I do not use eBay"
Yawn. Somewhere there is a point, I suppose. In any case, there are plenty of people who DO make their living on ebay. So you don't. Yawn again. Of course its possible not to use ebay, each person must decide for themselves where best to sell. You have NOT made any sort of convincing case for these "no fee" sites. So far pretty much the evidence from the people posting here suggests that you, in fact, are generally quite wrong. Whether or not I'm a "hobbiest" (a "hobbiest" with 5 years experience at online auction sales, 3 degrees in business, and 20 years of business experience otherwise) really is quite irrelevant here, and is merely your attempt to deflect attention from the obvious errors in your logic.
Have a good evening, its late here on the east coast.
posted on February 8, 2001 11:55:18 PM
>>I tried to list on the free sites. My listings were collecting internet dust. I got very few bids. I list on ebay and always get biders.<<
I always get bidders on the free sites too. My profits and sales increased when I quit trying to liquidate everything in 3 to 7 days on eBay. If retail stores tried to liquidate their inventory in 3 to 7 days, most of them would go out of business. Online sellers have been brainwashed with the auction concept.
posted on February 9, 2001 01:57:24 AM
Seems like a catch 22 situation.
There aren't many items at the free auctions because there aren't many bidders and there aren't many bidders because there aren't many items.
I think even those of us that still sell on GreedEbay feel somewhat taxed at times with their policies, lack of service, ever rising fees, ever present penny pinching to make sure you don't sell something extra they don't get a piece of, banning of banners by the seller (who paid for the page and I think the privilege)even though they use banners for their own gain. They bug me. They lie, change policy, message the rules so they maximize their profit by making it hard for sellers to get Final Value credits for deadbeat bidders THEN don't do anything about the deadbeat bidder! And on And On.
Problem is that most of you are right. Ebay has the eyeballs and those eyeballs buy our items. Agreed. I've watched my stuff mold on Yahoo, Golds and others and when it finally did sell to the only bidder in 3 weeks it sold for substantially less than the average of the 5 or 6 identical items that were on Ebay.
Sure I might pay Ebay 5 - 7% but my items SELL and sell for about 20% more 5 or 6 times FASTER than the free auctions.
Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you. With the free auctions my nice red meat turns fuzzy and green.
So what can we do to get more people to the free auctions? Post some stuff over there and forget about it til it sells.
We can't let Ebay have the entire market or believe me........then we will pay!!
The statement below is TRUE
The statement above is FALSE.
[ edited by horizonod on Feb 9, 2001 03:42 AM ]
posted on February 9, 2001 06:53:49 AM
With all due respect to the sellers, it's the buyers who are going to make or break these free sites. So far, BidVille et al don't have many buyers. You can list and list and list and make the numbers look really impressive, but until or unless I start seeing numbers in the "bids" column, I won't waste my time with listings at any of these sites.
The idea of a free site that makes everyone happy is only a dream ...
