posted on March 14, 2001 08:16:16 PM new
mrpotatohead, as a seller I leave feedback for all buyers upon successful receipt of payment. If I forget to do so and someone reminds me, it will be done whether I receive one in return or not. If there are any problems after they receive their items, it wil be dealt with.
If any fraud has occured, it will be reported to police.
I sure can be arbitrary. Do your job as a seller and none of this will occur. If I think I deserve a feedback and you make the statement at the begginning of this thread, you will be hearing from me. If that statement was not included, I would probably not even noticed that you had not left feeedback.
Course, I still don't leave feedback for sellers who don't leave it for me.
The only reason I have responded to this thread is because a seller did this to me once.
After receiving the item in good condition, with a comment such as the beginning of this thread saying feedback will be left after he hears that the item arrived in good condition.
I responded in the following way.
"I sent payment promptly for this ebay item. I feel that I filled my end of the bargain by submitting it in this manner. Why are you holding back on feedback, so you can retaliate if the item didn't arrive in good condition."
"Please leave feedback for me right now. If this is not done, I will be leaving a negative for you."
Do you know how quickly that feedback arrived. It is irrelevant what condition the item arrived in. Since it is not a violation of ebay rules to leave a negative feedback for this purpose, I would do it. So now you can retaliate. I stand firm in my convictions.
posted on March 14, 2001 08:30:44 PM new"Please leave feedback for me right now. If this is not done, I will be leaving a negative for you."
Looks like a clear case of feedback extortion to me.
After a couple thousand sales & using a statement similar to the one at the beginning of this thread, not a single dissatisfied customer regarding when I choose to leave feedback.
I do leave feedback on all my customers regardless of whether they let me know it arrives or not. For those who let me know it's arrived, the feedback is left that same day. Those who don't, I give it a reasonable time to have arrived, then leave feedback for them.
I don't consider the sale final until the customer is satisfied, either with the product or with a refund in the rare cases that it's necessary.
In those rare cases when I've had to make a refund or adjustment, I've enjoyed getting the benefit of having a customer leave feedback for me saying how quickly I resolved a problem or how willing I was to work with them.
Those of you who think feedback should be left when the seller receives the payment, do you also leave feedback for YOUR sellers as soon as they notify you they have shipped your item? And if no, why NOT?
edited for ubb
[ edited by eventer on Mar 14, 2001 08:39 PM ]
posted on March 14, 2001 08:31:08 PM newUaru...I think your reading to much into the "satisfied" comments. From other threads that have explored this subject (the many, many others )...it seems what these sellers are trying to relay to their customers is that they will give feedback at the point the customer feels the transaction is over...an email from the buyer stating they are satisfied signifies the end of the transaction. The seller is only showing a positive attitude when he asks the buyer to let him know the item was satisfactory...ie...he is sure the item was described correctly and shipped with care so he EXPECTS the customer to be satisfied and he doesn't want to suggest to the customer that he MIGHT not be happy.
Most of those who use this type of statement also seem to be very responsive sellers who will do whatever it takes to make a mistake or problem right (at least the ones who are posting to these AW threads on this subject)...so IF the buyer does have a complaint they are more than willing to do what it takes to correct the situation.
Samimandi...aren't you also holding feedback hostage if you refuse to give the seller feedback before he gives it to you? And if leaving feedback is the "polite" thing to do, then isn't it impolite to demand the other person be "polite" before your "polite"?
I don't know about others, but I was taught that one does the "polite" thing even if the other person was extremely impolite. Being polite wasn't dependant on how others acted...being polite was done no matter waht the other guy did.
posted on March 14, 2001 08:31:31 PM new
Kaneen
I agree with everything that you say, as a
matter of fact my email to my buyer at the time of shipping says just what your email says.
It took me two years to finally realize that I was doing an injustice to myself because I use to leave feedback either upon receiving payment or when shipping, BIG MISTAKE.....
I also like the explaination you gave your buyer, "a little long" but good. Everything you said I have been feeling exactly the same way and there was not one sentence you wrote that I don't agree with, it's amazing!!
I am a Seller and a Buyer and 1% of the sellers I deal with leave feedback upon receiving payment. All the other sellers leave feedback after I leave it.
I have two user names and between the two my feedback is 750 The number of feedback I left is about 1200, I have been doing feedback just the way you say and it works better for me.
By doing feedback this way I feel helps other seller to know exactly what is going on with a buyer because now you have the whole picture not just one third of it.
posted on March 14, 2001 08:33:00 PM new
amy, yes there are no rules for leaving feedback. It still seems that you are waiting for something to go awry with the transaction. Whether it be a stolen credit card, chargebacks, something wrong with the item, etc.
All sellers can handle their auctions how they see fit. Works the same with retail business. I feel that I don't like the service or product, I won't be going there again. If you feel this is the best policy, go with it. If your buyers don't like it, there are alot of other choices. It would make more sense to please the majority, then to try and punish the minority.
posted on March 14, 2001 08:36:47 PM new"Please leave feedback for me right now. If this is not done, I will be leaving a negative for you."
SafeHarbor says:
Feedback extortion - Demanding any action of a fellow user that he or she is not required to do, at the threat of leaving negative feedback. ( "Even though it didn't reach reserve, sell it to me for my bid or..."; "Pay me $100.00 or I will..."; "Sell me all of the Dutch items or I will get all of my friends to..." )
You believe feedback extortion (you threatened a seller with negative feedback if he did not do something he is not required to do) is an appropriate way to make a seller do as you wish?
edited to remove smiley...
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Mar 14, 2001 08:39 PM ]
posted on March 14, 2001 08:46:39 PM new"Please leave feedback for me right now. If this is not done, I will be leaving a negative for you."
This is feedback extortion and grounds for suspension frm ebaY.
There are always sellers who will argue that the buyer's job is over when payment is made. I argue that it isn't. And reasonable buyers would agree. I have had ~1200 ebaY transactions in 1 1/2 years. I receive around 70% return feedback. No negs received to date. No negs left to date. No requests for a refund to date (no, not even one). My way of doing business appears to be working for me. I see complaints from sellers about low received feedback percentages. I think my percentage is pretty good.
Like I said before, I routinely leave feedback first in my transactions. I just wait until the transaction is completed (which gives the buyer's feedback real meaning).
Sure, I've had a few buyers complain about not receiving feedback upon payment. And those buyers typically have turned out to be a headache in one way or another. But that's ok because I love their money just as much as anyone else's and I bend over backwards to do everything I can to make ALL of my customers happy (within reason, even the not so pleasant ones).
As far as repeat business is concerned, my 1200 transactions are from 900 odd unique customers so I must not be losing too much repeat business.
If a seller offers quality products at good prices and gives excellent customer service, a reasonable, level-headed buyer won't get all twisted out-of-shape over feedback. That has been my experience anyway.
posted on March 14, 2001 08:51:24 PM new
mrpotatohead, and the sellers are doing what? Other than right out saying it, that is what they are doing, in this thread anyway.
He will not leave me feedback for me without first performing a specific action, such as emailing them to tell than that the item arrived in good condition and that I am happy with it. I am not required to tell you that I received the item and I am not required to leave feedback for you. Even though there is no threat of negative feedback, it is still six of one and half a dozen of the other. Who leaves feedback for who then?
I have seen that the least ebay will do is the most they will do. Suspend me, right. They like my pocketbook.
posted on March 14, 2001 08:55:35 PM new
It seems pretty simple to me...
If you're a seller, and you refuse to leave feedback for your buyer until he leaves it for you, even though he has already told you he is happy with the item you sent, you are holding his feedback hostage.
If you're a buyer, and you refuse to leave feedback for your seller until he leaves it for you, even though you have received the item and you are happy with it, you are holding his feedback hostage.
I am not required to tell you that I received the item and I am not required to leave feedback for you.
And yet, you threaten a seller with negative feedback if he doesn't leave it for you? Why do you claim the right to not leave feedback for yourself, yet not allow the seller the same right?
posted on March 14, 2001 09:00:55 PM new
mrpotatohead, it's a wonder anyone has any feedback, huh. Most people don't have policies they go by in leaving feedback. It's just done.
I skip over the ones that do. Please put it in your terms of service so I know who does.
posted on March 14, 2001 09:05:26 PM new
I always leave feedback after the transaction is completed... which is after the customer has received the item and is happy with it.
I have had several people demand that I leave feedback immediately after they paid, they have accused me of being unscrupulous and holding feedback hostage. As long as that's the only gripe they have, they usually just do not receive any feedback. I save my negs for non payment and other really icky things.
I have many years in the customer service field and have been able to make the majority of my customers happy. Some people you can't make happy no matter what you do.
What really amuses me about this whole ongoing debate is the buyers on Yahoo auctions (where you can revise the feedback after you leave it) who throw fits about when I leave it. It doesn't matter on that site because they can't hold it hostage.
Even more amusing is that the people who give me the biggest fit about when I leave feedback are usually the ones with a history of trying to get a partial refund or turn sour after the item is sent. Then the transaction is bad.
So I leave feedback either after they do(as some let me know they received the item via feedback) or if I don't hear from them, after enough time has passed for them to have received the item.
posted on March 14, 2001 09:09:01 PM new
mrpotatohead, it's that little note that I receive that is the topic of this thread. If I hadn't received it, not receiving any feedback would have went unnoticed.
Anyhow, it's been fun. You do whatever you feel is necessary and I will do the same. I should hope that I should not cross the paths of any more sellers with this feedback policy.
Maybe that wasn't clear enough. There is no requirement to leave feedback, and nothing wrong (against the rules, anyway) with not leaving any.
Stating (or implying) "I won't until you do", is holding feedback hostage. Stating "I'll leave you a negative if you don't leave feedback for me" is feedback extortion.
User dschoone on eBay has received 753 feedback comments and left 582. Just curious- is that you?
posted on March 14, 2001 09:15:49 PM new
dschoone:
Why do you not wish to do business with a seller that prefers to leave feedback on the entire transaction? Do you have something sinister planned for later?
How could it possibly be wrong for a seller to wait until the end of the transaction before leaving feedback, especially if (like me) the seller routinely leaves feedback first? The only logical reason is that you want the ability to leave a neg with no possibility that the seller can neg you back.
If you do have a legitimate reason for demanding feedback upon payment I'm sure we would all love to hear it.
posted on March 14, 2001 09:30:36 PM new
Why should I not be able to leave a negative without expecting retaliation. If I am going to leave a negative, it would have to have been with a really irresponsible seller.
I lived up to my end of the bargain by sending payment. The seller doesn't live up to their end of the bargain by sending faulty product and doesn't want to resolve the problem.
I leave my negative feedback. If the seller didn't leave a positive for receiving my timely payment, they will now leave a negative for me. The only reason for withholding the feedback is to retaliate. How many sellers would not retaliate if they receive a negative and had the chance to do so.
Yes, I am dschoone. And I always have something sinister planned. I have never had to give a negative to a seller, because I always check them out first and most people will work out the situation. Which is why I feel this position on feedback is unnecessary. It insults.
posted on March 14, 2001 09:35:41 PM newThe only reason for withholding the feedback is to retaliate.
Why should the seller be the only one on the hook for a neg? This would seem to be a rather selfish attitude on the buyer's part. It's really quite simple. If the seller routinely leaves feedback first at the end of the transaction, what does an honest bidder have to fear?
posted on March 14, 2001 09:46:10 PM new
Dischoone...it will do little good to report to a police department 3000 miles away a buyer who has bounced a $10 check. And a buyer who files a false fraud charge with ebay is not really breaking any law. And the buyer who replaces her broken depression glass butter dish top for my $200 one...how is the seller going to prove the returned broken item wasn't theirs. As for chargebacks..it is not illegal but the seller has almost no recourse.
As for waiting for something to go awry...things that go awry are also part of the transaction. Why do you think the buyer should be insulated from being held responsible for his/her behavior AFTER he makes payment?...because that is the result of the seller having to leave feedback when payment is recieved. Shouldn't the buyer be held responsible for his behavior?
And I have to agree with Eventer...if the seller shouldn't leave feedback based on the buyer's behavior after the payment is recieved because the buyer's job was done when he sent payment...then isn't the seller's job done when he ships the item and shouldn't the buyer leave feedback as soon as the seller notifies the buyer the item has been shipped?
posted on March 14, 2001 09:48:28 PM new
Not at all, I'm just asking for the same "right" as you. YOU are the one who stated that the only reason to withhold feedback is to use it for this purpose.
And now, do you plan to respond to my question regarding where in the ebay rules feedback is a requirement?
posted on March 14, 2001 09:56:16 PM new
eventer, i already replied to that twice. there is none
amy, you are still basing this on those who intend to defraud, has nothing to do with all the honest buyers. I would send the check to the district attorney's office from where the check came. Are you going to be able to collect on it, perhaps not.
The grocery store down the street has to deal with bad checks, stolen merchandise, broken merchandise, and all the other unsavory acts. If you can't handle the occasionally unsavory buyer, you need to go back to your day job. These people are few and far between, in my experience.
)...it seems what these sellers are trying to relay to their customers is that they will give feedback at the point the customer feels the transaction is over...an email from the buyer stating they are satisfied signifies the end of the transaction. The seller is only showing a positive attitude when he asks the buyer to let him know the item was satisfactory...ie...he is sure the item was described correctly and shipped with care so he EXPECTS the customer to be satisfied and he doesn't want to suggest to the customer that he MIGHT not be happy.
