posted on March 14, 2001 09:56:44 PM newWhy would the seller be on the "hook". He does his job right and everyone leaves unscathed.
With honest and reasonable buyers, yes. With buyers who insist on receiving feedback upon seller's receipt of payment it can be a little dicey. Once the buyer has positive feedback AND the item, the seller is helpless against an undeserved neg from an unscrupulous buyer.
I don't ask for much in the way of feedback. Just let me know you're happy with the transaction. I'll immediately leave positive feedback for you without expecting any in return. If you're NOT happy with the transaction, let me know why and give me a reasonable opportunity to MAKE you happy with it.
What could possibly be unfair about the process just described?
posted on March 14, 2001 10:14:01 PM new
dubyasdaman, there is nothing wrong with that, but you are assuming that all buyers are unscrupulous, when they are the exception and not the rule.
I never demand any feedback from anyone, except those who state they will not leave it until I do or if they will not leave it unitl they hear from me that everything arrived safe and sound. They will hear from me, if they say that, and double time.
Most of the time I do not contact the buyer unless there is a problem, and that is rare in itself. I don't leave feedback to a seller unless it is first received by me. I beleive it is a common courtesy to leave the buyer feedback after payment has been received.
I have only encountered one person who has done this to me in the two or so years that I have used ebay, so I believe that you guys are the dinosaurs here.
posted on March 14, 2001 10:37:30 PM new
As a seller, I notify bidders that their items have been shipped, and I ask them to let me know that the items have arrived safely. How they choose to let me know (e-mail or feedback comment), or if they choose to let me know, is up to them. I leave positive feedback once I've heard from them that everything is okay, and if I haven't heard after a reasonable period of time, I go ahead and leave it anyway if they were okay to deal with. I don't see how that constitutes "holding feedback hostage."
I have no negatives, as a bidder or seller, under either of my IDs. I have left one negative for non-payment. (There were a couple of other occasions when I should have and didn't, because I was naive.)
I have received positive feedback for my post-sale customer service. In one case, an item arrived broken despite what the bidder felt was excellent packing; I refunded and handled the insurance claim. In another, the customer initially felt that I'd misrepresented a piece of vintage coral jewelry which she'd wanted badly enough to snipe with seconds to spare. I was sure the piece was what I'd said it was, but I immediately offered to refund. She decided to ask her jeweler to look at it before sending it back, and subsequently apologized and left me glowing feedback.
As for Delivery Confirmation, it's a waste of money. DC proves only that the item went to the proper city, not that it was delivered to the intended recipient. (Check with your local posties if you don't believe it.) I live in a large city, and frequently receive mail for people who have the same house number, but live on nearby streets. If you want proof of delivery, you'll have to send items via a method which requires a signature.
I discovered eBay when it was still person-to-person, and I've chosen to continue to run my business that way despite all the changes eBay's been through. I take care to represent my items accurately, pack them carefully, and so on, but I'm not inside the customer's head when that package gets opened.
I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want to be sure my customer is satisfied before I close out a transaction.
I don't think anyone is assuming that all buyers are unscrupulous, but I also don't believe that a buyer is entitled to positive feedback when payment has arrived. I leave positive feedback for a positive experience. If the buyer is pleasant through the entire transaction, that is a positive experience and deserves positive feedback.
If a problem arrises (return, etc) and the buyer is civil he or she still deserves positive feedback, but if the buyer turns into a jerk, then it is definitely not a positive experience and I usually will not leave feedback at all. I save negs for NPBs.
I have also been able on several occasions to turn a bad situation into a mutualy satisfying experience, with no negs left after a little negotiation. If I had of left feedback first I would have probably received a neg and not had a chance to turn things around.
posted on March 14, 2001 10:40:57 PM newReddeer thanks for the concern
Dschoone...one more time
Feedback is for letting the rest of the ebay community know how the members conduct business. It has nothing to do with being able to deal with a bad check or a customer defrauding you...it is not a solution to those type of problems. It is to warn OTHERS abut potential problems. Negging a check bouncer will not get the seller back his money nor does the seller expect it to....but it does warn other sellers that this buyer has done this before so be careful when you accept his check. It is being done as a public service.
I had a buyer a while back who bought two figurines from me...$400. The figurines were in PERFECT condition..NO damage. They were shipped in seperate boxes to avoid them damageing each other in shipment. They were in boxes that left plenty of space so they would not be damaged if the boxes were dropped (and they were well cushioned). They only travelled about 100 miles to their new home. As is my custom (done so I can keep organized), feedback was left when I shipped the item.
The buyer emailed me when they arrived and complained they were severly damaged and it was all OLD damage. I told her to return them and if in the condition I sent them I would refund her money. When they got back to me it was obvious one figure had been switched...the other one, who's backmark had been shown in the auction, was the same one but there was a huge, fresh chip on the base which WAS NOT there when it was mailed (and the buyer had already informed me that there were no pieces in the boxes that would have been from the chipped area). I feel she delibertly chipped the second piece.
I refused to refund her...she did a chargeback. I was out the $366 I paid for them, the $10 billpoint took for the chargeback, the shipping and the sales tax. I do have two figurines, but now I would be lucky to get $20 for both of them.
If I had not already given her feedback I could have left negative feedback informing others to be careful, she switches merchandise. My neg would have been first (and therefore NOT retalitory) as she didn't leave a neg for me until almost 60 days after the transaction.
I can take her to small claims court but that does nothing to help the next seller that she pulls this on...but feedback would help warn the next guy.
The next seller expects that a buyers feedback is truely representative of the buyer's total behavior. Waiting until the transaction is completely over guarantees that.
PS...I don't need to go back to a real job. I already have one on ebay...a very successful one, thank you! One with happy satisfied customers!
posted on March 15, 2001 02:53:57 AM new
Hey Everybody!!!
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions! I had to be out tonight, and when I got back and saw all of the posts I was overwhelmed! It took me forever to read through them and there's no way I can respond to everyone, but THANKS for taking the time to discuss and give input!
I had no idea I would raise so many blood pressures with my debate. First, I will respond to a couple of things in some posts, and then I will give you my summary of thoughts on this subject.
Several people suggested that a note such as the one I send to my buyers is "insulting" and "holding their feedback hostage." This is not true at all!!! I am actually keeping myself accountable to that person to provide all necessary means of customer service to insure that they are satisfied! My note is simply to let them know that I am indeed concerned about their satisfaction and will do all things possible to correct any problems before anyone leaves any feedback.
I don't request that they leave me feedback first, nor do I really even care if they leave me feedback at all. I have plenty of feedback to serve as a guide for potential buyers in my auctions, and I'm not in a star earning competition.
My not giving immediate feedback when I receive a buyer's payment has nothing to do with waiting for them to give me feedback first, or saving my feedback for retaliation. (as was suggested by one person who thinks that there can be no other reason for a feedback practice such as mine.) In nearly every case I've had, I am the one who leaves feedback first...IMMEDIATELY upon hearing from the buyer that all is well, and as far as they are concerned the transaction is complete.
In my opinion it is very inconsiderate and impolite for a buyer to leave a seller hanging...left to just sit and wonder if the item ever arrived, if everything was ok, and if the buyer feels he/she has been treated fairly. As a buyer I would never do this!! Perhaps a buyer is not "required" to respond in some way (email or feedback), but it sure is considerate! As a seller it lets me know that I can bring closure, turn the page on that transaction and discard the associated emails from my limited server space and move on, knowing that there won't be any unresolved issues cropping up two weeks or two months down the road.
Samimandi wrote: "I also use Delivery Confirmation so I know package has been received."
As tabbinosity responded in a previous post..."As for Delivery Confirmation...it's a waste of money." Don't be fooled into thinking that Delivery Confirmation is a solution to delivery problems!!! I had a buyer email me saying they never got a package. I tracked the delivery confirmation number and it showed a date that the post office delivered the package. Only problem is, there is NO proof of where that package was delivered or who received it! The mail carrier simply scans the barcode when he leaves the package...somewhere. In the end, if there is a disputed delivery, you have just wasted 40 cents for this service. As I continued to investigate this problem, the postmaster in the recipient's home town told me, "In the end, it's just the intended recipient's word against the mail carrier's. The post office isn't liable, and delivery confirmation is not the same thing as insurance."
There is a new postal service called "Signature Confirmation." It works just like Delivery Confirmation except that instead of the mail carrier scanning it when he leaves it in a box or on a porch, a live person at the address has to sign for the package, and then it is scanned into the usps system as having been delivered. It differs from a "return receipt requested" in that you don't get a notification of delivery back in the mail (you can just track it on the usps website), and you don't have to send something "Certified Mail" to use this service like you do with a "return receipt." The cost for Signature Confirmation used in conjunction with Priority Mail is $1.25 for "electronic" service and $1.75 for "manual" service, whatever that means.
FINAL THOUGHTS: The note I include with my shipped package to a buyer includes this simple statement: "Please let me know when you receive your item so I will know that everything is ok. As soon as I hear back from you I will leave positive feedback for you. I hope you will do the same for me!"
How some oversensitive or paranoid buyers can interpret that polite statement to mean that I'm holding their feedback hostage (when I do not say "I'll leave feedback only after you leave it for me" ), or that I'm only looking to retaliate with my feedback ( untrue, because I nearly always leave the feedback first....immediately upon hearing back from the buyer that they received it and are satisfied ), or that I am insinuating that they are a common criminal who can't be trusted and treating them like a child molestor or something...is totally beyond me!!!
THE REST OF THE STORY: The encounter with the buyer which was the subject of my original post ended last night like this. I immediately left postive feedback for the buyer (even before I made my post on this board) because I had heard from him that he received the item. I emailed him to thank him again for the smooth transaction and to let him know that I had left feedback. Five hours later he left positive feedback for me
and emailed me to let me know he had done so.
So in the final analysis, my transaction with this buyer went as follows:
3/10/01, 10:30pm - Buyer won aucton with high bid; I immediately emailed him with congratulatory note and info on where to send payment; He emailed me to confirm receipt of the info and stated his intention to pay; 3/11 at 10pm - buyer paid via PayPal; I immediately emailed him to let him know I appreciated his prompt payment, and I would ship the item "first thing in the morning" and gave him the delivery confirmation tracking number that would be on his package. This email included my "courtesy note" to request that he let me know when the package arrived so I would know everything was ok. I also had that on my note that was mailed with the item; 3/12 I shipped the item; 3/14 Buyer emails me to let me know it arrived and that he would post feedback later. This email included the "By the way" "scolding" as was mentioned in my original post; I immediately left positive feedback for him, and emailed him to let him know I had done so. This email also included my explanation of the way I handle feedback situations as a personal general rule, as was printed in my original post; 3/14/01, 10pm buyer leaves me positive feedback and emails me to let me know.
This entire transaction took place from start to finish in 4 days, and both parties left positive feedback about the experience as soon as the entire transaction was complete. Is that unreasonable?
If only all ebay transactions were so timely and smooth...whether they included a good scolding for being conscientious and thorough or not!!!
posted on March 15, 2001 10:09:50 AM new
I post feedback when I receive payment. I do it because it is easier to post it at that time, I won't forget and end up posting 20 or more at a time. In addition, I have a system that works and I don't like to deviate from it.
However, call me silly, but even though it is nice to get feedback, I simply do not get wrapped around the axel over not getting it. I'm not sure why I feel that way, so I guess I rely on the quality of feedback left versus the quantity.
I do my best to alleviate any problems before they arise though. I ask my customers to drop me an email when their package arrives and if they don't, within a short time after that I send a follow-up email. You'd be surprised how far you can go if you have good customer service.
posted on March 15, 2001 12:19:05 PM new
As a seller, I post feedback upon receipt of payment - unless emails prior to have made me leery (wanting to change the TOS, etc., etc.)and then I wait. As a buyer, if I'm happy I post upon receipt of the mdse unless the seller has told me I have to leave it first, in which case I don't leave it at all as that grates on me and seems like far too much of a tit for tat situation. Whether it is stated in an extortionary manner or not, pos for pos is inferred. I have in excess of 800 feedback - 2 negs from the same joker under 2 names and 2 neutrals - 1 retaliatory and 1 in error from a buyer who had already left a pos in the days when Ebay would let you leave more than 1! I've left about 10 negs for NPBs and a couple for mdse not as described with no resolution from the seller. I used to worry about it - but these days don't at all - and don't have time to play the tit for tat game and agree that quality is far better than quantity!!
