posted on March 19, 2001 11:46:34 AM new
hi chepi!
good thread glad you brought it to life again. somehow missed it the first time around.
i've only had one npb - so far! - but yes i did file a npb and fvf. and i'll do it again if i have to.
until i started coming here, i too thought negs by themselves would result in a naru.
this reminds me of something else i've wondered about. it took me quite a while on ebay (i was a buyer only for a long time) before i realized 'no longer a registered user' was a bad thing. remember seeing it on sellers' feedback - sometimes postive left, sometimes negative. all i thought was they were people who, forwhatever reason, decided they no longer wanted to be part of ebay and had unregistered themselves! did anyone else think this? the words themselves - no longer a registered user - are pretty benign.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:55:07 AM new
hi kitty!
glad you like the thread
As with your experience, I initially thought that NARU meant that the member had just moved on or somehow their registration had expired. Wouldn't you think it would say something closer to "privileges suspended" or "membership withdrawn"?
hmmm....maybe that would just create an embarassment for the bidder, increasing the chances of them creating a new id rather than resolving the problem.
I'm not sure of the logic behind it, anyone else?
On the same note, since bid retractions are shown on a member's history, shouldn't NPB's, FVF's, or suspensions?
Anyone care to take a shot at that one?
hmmm...more buyer bias on eBay's part?
edited fur spelink
[ edited by chepistar on Mar 19, 2001 11:56 AM ]
posted on March 19, 2001 11:58:04 AM new
I always file for FVF, but never leave neg feedback for a NPB, I would leave neg FB for a dishonest seller though. Filing for FVF does the job of getting an NPB suspended, not neg FB. A buyers neg FB doesn't bother me, in fact I don't even check.
I agree 100% with dubyasdaman's post.
Why mess up your FB when It hurts you & not the guilty party.
posted on March 19, 2001 12:21:44 PM new
mcjane&dubya:
After spending over a year on eBay trying to be a "responsible citizen"(posting a neg on all non-pays), I am currently in agreement with you with the existing feedback system.
ummm...*partially*
I agree that more often than not, neg feedback means very little on a bidders history, however, I will still post a neg on newbies as a warning to other sellers.
I have learned from my retaliatory, BUT, I still feel an obligation to warn others ~ filing one NPB/FVF will not mark a deadbeat but a neg rating is a "red flag" so a seller can make a decision to contact the bidder or withdraw the bid.
>>>just tryin to help out<<<
posted on March 19, 2001 01:37:18 PM new
I think it's wrong that deadbeats get four chances to stiff sellers before they are finally suspended for good.
Would any retail outlet let you bounce a check four times before they say no more? Would they let you steal from them four times before they pressed charges?
posted on March 19, 2001 02:07:59 PM new
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! I have had several items that I have needed to do this type of followup on but wasn't sure how to go about it. I just filed my first one and it was so easy! Thanks for the detailed explination. It was just what I needed.
posted on March 19, 2001 02:58:46 PM new
thanks for asking Cindy!
When you click "feedback forum" from my ebay, on the first line is a link "use feedback forum" ~ click there. You want #2. >>Leave Feedback About An Ebay User - see all pending comments at once <<
with a cute little "new" next to it (ummm, that "new" has been there about a year now!). Click and it will bring you to "view all pending transactions".
If your browser doesn't have a link on the "feedback forum" page, just scroll down the page a bit and look for #2.
I hope this helps!
edited to add: your welcome your welcome! Thanks for helping to "take out the trash"
[ edited by chepistar on Mar 19, 2001 02:59 PM ]
posted on March 19, 2001 03:03:29 PM newchepistar I can agree with that to a point, but what if the newby is an oldie under a new ID. Sellers have to do far more to protect their FB than a buyer. It's scarey out there. I hate to do the dirty work that ebay should be doing. Someday their going to have to protect their sellers.
Maybe
I mean a NPB will go as far as saying "I sent cash & buyer denied receiving it" How do you clean that up!
This is a really tough problem, negative feedback. I think your on your own in eBay & have to play the game that works best for you. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.
posted on March 19, 2001 03:15:28 PM new
mcjane:
>>but what if the newby is an oldie under a new ID<<
I think you are referring to the retaliatory fear (especially since you said ~ and I agree ~ it's scary out there!)
IF the newbie is an Oldie, all the more reason, IMHO, to neg them and bring attention to their feedback history. Why let them get away with it again?
BUT ~ this is from the standpoint that retaliatory feedback is about 5% likely to happen when I try to "do my duty" and neg 'em.
If you really want to get into the numbers of it, go look at anyone's retaliatory negs ~ my guess would be that about 90% of the retaliatory negs are NOT from newbies. Newbies rarely neg. Most of them don't even leave FB at all!
BTW, ZERO of MY negs are from newbies.
JMHO, FMPE.
edited cuz i forgot about the cash question:
anyone claiming to have sent cash is more transparent than saran wrap.
Isn't it ironic when a buyer insures a priority mail package, yet claims to have sent cash through the mail?
[ edited by chepistar on Mar 19, 2001 03:19 PM ]
posted on March 19, 2001 11:41:54 PM new
chepistar-
I definitely have found a correlation with NPB's and the new "Buy it Now" feature. I had three NPB's in the last few weeks, all of them newbies, and all 3 ended my auctions early using "Buy it Now." In my case the items were Dale Earnhardt collectibles. In the initial two weeks following his death, fans were scrambling for items. Prices were initially inflated due to this. The 3 newbies jumped on my items with "Buy it Now," since my "BIN" prices were pretty much at the going rate at the time. However, a week or so later, when prices began to creep downward and stabilize, each of them found the same items for cheaper prices in auctions that were running all the way to completion. Bottom line...they each bid on the cheaper auctions, and stiffed me on mine.
The "Buy it Now" feature definitely has some drawbacks. It seems that it lends itself to impulsive buying, and non-thorough item research. Then when the bidder sees the items selling cheaper after more browsing, newbies quickly develop "Buy it Now Buyer's Remorse" and cure the problem by becoming an NPB.
I will file NPB's, FVF's, and NEGs, and will seriously consider whether or not I will use BIN in the future.
posted on March 20, 2001 01:56:48 AM new
hi chepi!
sheesh, i must've tried 10 or more times to get back into this thread to reply. netscape's gone goofy on me.
yeah, you'd think they'd have phrased it so we'd *know* it was a bad thing. hmm, good point about the npbs and fvfs not being listed, given that retractions are.
mcjane, i don't agree that buyers' negs don't matter. i do check! probably not the only one who does. but i will read to see what the situation was, and who looks to be the most cool-headed.
kaneen, i haven't noticed a bin/npb correlation. think you've hit the nail on the head as to the reason with the Dale Earnhardt collectibles.
posted on March 20, 2001 05:37:05 AM new
I have only had about 300 auctions, but only 3 NPBers so far. I came to an understanding with one and didn't give him any feedback, because I wasn't sure about a death in his family. But, once I filed for the others I didn't have time to leave feedback. By the end of the day they were NARU'd.
The first I didn't know to check if she had bid on alot of items because I was new, and didn't know you could.
The second racked up almost $400 in Snoopy collectible items. I decided s/he deserved my negative FB, because I knew from contact with sellers he wasn't responding or paying for anything. I went to give feedback within hours...he was already NARU's too.
I have dealt with so many dishonest sellers I finally have a second ID. I WILL leave a negative when deserved. I am understanding when it comes to shipping (except one that took 60 days, long story) but not misrepresented items.
>deadbeats can only stiff 4 sellers before E-bay suspensions them
This isn't quite true. By the time you can file a NPB (7 days), and then wait (10 days) and do the FVF thing, a deadbeat can stiff hundreds of sellers.
We do file all NPB and FVF on deadbeats, but by the time we do, a "sports bidder" can screw up a LOT of auctions.
(we wait about 12-14 days before doing the NPB, and another 10 for the FVF)
posted on March 20, 2001 10:59:40 AM new
kittykittykitty -
I agree with your assessment that the Dale Earnhardt collectibles category was certainly a contributor to my situation above, but there are many categories that experience price fluctuations regularly...especially in the large sports cards and memorabilia arena. Cards will be hot one day, and cold a week later.
The "Buy it Now" feature lends itself readily to the problem I mentioned in my previous post. It may not be the only contributing factor, but it does increase the likelihood of this happening in my opinion. If you sell mainly in a category where prices remain pretty stable, the "Buy it Now" feature may be merely a tool of convenience for a buyer looking for the item and a seller looking for a quick turn around time. But, in categories where prices ride the fickle roller coaster of hype, breaking news, or supply and demand, impulse buying has a new bedpartner...it's called "Buy it Now."
posted on March 20, 2001 03:08:39 PM newchepi: If you are leaving those deserved NEGS to the deadbeats and filing for all your FVF's - then THANK YOU!!
I, too leave all NEGS for deadbeats and file for ALL of my FVF's. On the 11th day I file for my NPB alert, and on the 10th day I file for my FVF, relist the item and NEG the loser.
Too bad all sellers didn't do the same! We will never get rid of the deadbeats if everyone fears the retaliatory NEGS.
posted on March 20, 2001 08:48:40 PM new
ExecutiveGirl:
It isn't a fear of retaliatory negs. It's the understanding that leaving a neg for a deadbeat does NO GOOD whatsoever in keeping the deadbeat off of ebaY. -4 and they're suspended. Big deal. They just re-register under a new ID and go back to business as usual. Negative feedback has NO effect on deadbeat buyers. None. Zero. Zilch. But they DO have a negative effect on sellers. The bottom line is that negs left for deadbeats hurt the seller not the bidder. I have never left a neg for a deadbeat. I never will leave a neg for a deadbeat under the current feedback system which is inherently flawed.
I disagree. I think leaving NEGS for all deadbeats is very important. I check the feedback of ALL of my bidders. If I see he/she has been negged several times for non-payment I will cancel their bid. Leaving NEGS for deadbeats can warn other sellers not to do business with that person.
I have left over 160 negative feedbacks for deadbeat bidders. I get emails from other sellers thanking me for warning them about that buyer. I sometimes get emails from other sellers asking me about my transaction with certain buyers that I negged.
For example, if I see someone with 10 feedback and I see they have 2 negs for non-payment, I cancel their bid and am VERY thankful that those other 2 sellers warned me about doing business with this bidder.
I do agree that the feedback system is seriously flawed but we have to make the most of it anyways. I am very thankful to other sellers who leave negs to warn me about deadbeat bidders. And I also feel it is part of my "job" to warn others about deadbeats.
posted on March 21, 2001 04:47:33 AM new
I won't leave neg. feedback untill Ebay changes its current feedback policy . NPB yes, Neg. feedback no. I have had several retaliatory neg. feedbacks and as we all know feedback is so important. It simply is not worth the risk. Buyers can leave anything they want and we are at there mercy. I simply relist and move on
posted on March 21, 2001 04:51:04 AM new
I've received NEGS from deadbeats for simply filing my NPB alert! So just filing for your fees does not guarantee you will not get negged from these deadbeats...
posted on March 21, 2001 05:10:35 AM new
Under the current feedback system, leaving negs for deadbeats is actually worse than useless. Deadbeats should NEVER, EVER be NARU'd over negative feedbacks. Yes, you heard me correctly. Why? Because NARUing the deadbeat just gives him/her the opportunity to start over fresh, like a regular newbie. When you look at your auction and see a high bidder with 5, 10, or more positive feedbacks and no negs, what you might actually be looking at is a deadbeat who is on his umpteenth buying account. In this case, leaving negs for the deadbeat has actually HURT sellers since they have NO warning whatsoever about this bidder's past. Now this bidder can continue picking and choosing which sellers to pay without any real consequences.
The feedback system is USELESS for sellers in its current form. Negging deadbeats would make sense if:
1) Mechanisms were in place to prevent retaliatory negs (and they could be if ebaY would seriously tackle this issue).
2) Instead of NARUing deadbeats, they would have to live with their miserable feedback records instead of being able to start fresh at any time.
posted on March 21, 2001 10:44:38 AM new
I am no stranger to NPBS. In fact it is stated in my TOS that if ya don't pay I will contact you first then start the process of NPBA. What amazes me is bidders will win an auction at all of $1.00 plus shipping then bow out. Then some of them act ignorant on how to pay saying they don't know how to use Pay Pal, Bill Point, etc. but I also accept checks and money orders. Hmmmm....... I'm waiting several 10 days now to finalize NPBs and get my FVF back.
Why people bid if they don't have the money makes no sense to me or heck if you change your mind prior to auction end, do a friggin bid retraction!
glad you brought it to life again. somehow missed it the first time around.
