joanne
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posted on March 29, 2001 03:52:49 PM new
1) So, the fact that you don't care about being sued is supposed to make us trust you and your product?
2) Am I understanding this right, your software "excludes a bidder from a shill check" if they have over 20 feedback? What, people with high feedback don't shill?
This thing sounds more and more useless the more you try to defend it, Mr. Mace.
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Meya
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posted on March 29, 2001 04:41:32 PM new
Well I have a question! When I set up the program, I had to enter my eBay password.
Today, I changed my password, and the safe2bid programs still works. So, I went into the Settings, and entered a false password, and it still works.
So, why did I have to enter my eBay password in the first place???
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Meya
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posted on March 29, 2001 04:55:34 PM new
This is a report on a friend of mine. She has 869 all positive feedbacks. Her items are bought by many repeat customers, due to the nature of the craft items she sells.
My comments will show in bold:
POSSIBLE SHILL WARNING:
Bidder ID ******* (9) has bid on 12 of the 100 ******** auctions that we checked.
********* (9) has bid on 28 recent auctions by 9 different sellers, 13 of which were auctions by **********
This could simply mean that ********** (9) has a special interest in *********** merchandise.
So, which is it? 12 or 13?
====================================================================
POSSIBLE SHILL WARNING:
Bidder ID ********* (9) has bid on 4 of the 100 ********* auctions that we checked.
******** (9) has bid on 28 recent auctions by 9 different sellers, 13 of which were auctions by **********
This could simply mean that ********* (9) has a special interest in *********** merchandise.
All bidders mentioned in the above report are/is the same bidder, and the numbers make no sense.
====================================================================
INFORMATION ONLY!
eSafe2Bid reviewed the following bidders for possible shill bidding. This is NOT a warning! Any resulting shill warnings would be listed above.
*********@aol.com (28) : 4 of 11 recent bids were *********** auctions. Has bid on 6 different sellers.
************s (6) : 7 of 49 recent bids were *********** auctions. Has bid on 12 different sellers.
*********.net (7) : 8 of 23 recent bids were *********** auctions. Has bid on 6 different sellers.
********* (9) : 13 of 28 recent bids were *********** auctions. Has bid on 9 different sellers.
********** (9) : 13 of 28 recent bids were *********** auctions. Has bid on 9 different sellers.
*********@earthlink.net (24) : 4 of 38 recent bids were *********** auctions. Has bid on 5 different sellers.
I have known this seller for 30 years. She is and always has been totally honest in any financial dealings at all. A person using this garbage program could get a totally skewed view of a completely honest seller. I don’t even want to think about the possibility that this seller could be turned in for possible shilling, and possibly lose her account because of this tripe.
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TheRedCircle
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posted on March 29, 2001 05:15:01 PM new
I wondered about entering your eBay password too...would be real funny if this whole flawed program was just a new angle on harvesting eBay passwords.
----
TRC
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TheRedCircle
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posted on March 29, 2001 05:14:58 PM new
Double post.
[ edited by TheRedCircle on Mar 29, 2001 05:16 PM ]
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joanne
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posted on March 29, 2001 05:22:54 PM new
The program has features besides the "shill detector". It also does feedback which would require the password. Apparently the shill detecting part does not.
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newguy
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posted on March 29, 2001 05:32:12 PM new
1 1/2 years ago I bought a collection of 125 pieces of Roseville Pottery and put evry piece but one up on ebay over two months. Five bidders with zero feedback and sunglasses bid on a lot of the pieces and mostly against each other unevenly splitting about 70 of the pieces between them. All paid very quickly and won most of the best items so I have a feeling they were sellers with new buying IDs because they sure could snipe.
Now that program would list me as a shiller and put my account in danger of suspension by one of the under-trained kids at safeharbor. And you wonder why sellers are not too thrilled about this program?
I have to admit seeing all those sunglasses did cause a little bit of a pucker.
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shaani
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posted on March 29, 2001 05:45:57 PM new
Okay, after what Meya posted I got curious and downloaded it. I put in a phony ID and just made up a password and it seems to work fine. I checked a couple of sellers and then I dumped it.
Anyone else try this?
[ edited by shaani on Mar 29, 2001 06:00 PM ]
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reddeer
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posted on March 29, 2001 07:53:30 PM new
shaani ....... You left out the most important part, are YOU a shiller seller?
Just kidding! 
I might have to try this piece of crap, just to see what the MY shiller status is.
Thanks for the info Meya! Very scary indeed.
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shaani
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posted on March 29, 2001 08:16:16 PM new
I came out clean and pure and honest and innocent. But not the other seller ID I checked.  They have return bidders.
This is scary stuff. For anyone wanting to play with it, remember not to put in your password. Seems to work no matter what you enter.
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reddeer
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posted on March 29, 2001 08:32:07 PM new
Looks like I'm an honest seller as well. Maybe tomorrow I'll get a few more repeat bidders & turn up dirty?
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Jereth
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posted on March 29, 2001 08:57:21 PM new
Would anyone have a moment to run this investigation on ME? We've got 100s of repeat buyers with dozens (and into the hundreds) of repeat auctions won by the same person. I just HATE downloading software onto my computer.
And, noooooo, I've never shilled a bid in my life.
Marie
[email protected] on ebay
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:08:06 PM new
If you have already installed the program and don't mind running it on mrpotatoheadd, I'd be interested in knowing what the program says about me, too.
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reddeer
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:26:53 PM new
Sorry, I dumped it already.
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shaani
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:27:54 PM new
mrpotatoheadd and Marie,
I would like to help you but I dumped the program again. It takes awhile to check out anyone and there is this little dude that walks back and forth across the bottom with papers in his hands (as he analyzes all the info before he takes the reports to safeharbor I guess).
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reddeer
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:28:59 PM new
Oh, and if you do decide to download it, don't use Joe Blow as your name, it's already taken. 
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:31:13 PM new
Rats! How about eSafe2Bid?
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shaani
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:32:57 PM new
Edited cause....
[ edited by shaani on Mar 29, 2001 09:36 PM ]
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outoftheblue
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posted on March 29, 2001 09:44:53 PM new
I didn't worry about the password thing. Unless this little program reports back to the person who created it, which I doubt, there's no problem.
Marie: I just started running the program. It will take a while.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Mar 29, 2001 09:48 PM ]
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tsunamii
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posted on March 29, 2001 10:07:58 PM new
Marie - tried to run yours but it times out. I guess your feedback file is too big
Mr. Potato - this is what yours said
REMEMBER!! Warnings below could be the result of legitimate activities. Use this as a guide for further review if deemed necessary.
====================================================================
INFORMATION ONLY!
eSafe2Bid reviewed the following bidders for possible shill bidding. This is NOT a warning! Any resulting shill warnings would be listed above. xxxxxxx@xxxxx (10) : 7 of 14 recent bids were mrpotatoheadd's auctions. Has bid on 7 different sellers.
====================================================================
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outoftheblue
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posted on March 29, 2001 10:18:21 PM new
Marie,
The older version of the program would not run your ID and crashed my system. I downloaded the kinder, gentler version and you received 3 shill warnings (at the default setting). So you've only been a little bit bad
POSSIBLE SHILL WARNING:
Bidder ID _______ (10) has bid on 4 of the 100 [email protected] auctions that we checked.
_______ (10) has bid on 200 recent auctions by 2 different sellers, 200 of which were auctions by [email protected]
The other bids were placed on ________'s auctions.
This could simply mean that _______ (10) has a special interest in [email protected] 's merchandise.
====================================================================
POSSIBLE SHILL WARNING:
Bidder ID ________ (11) has bid on 4 of the 100 [email protected] auctions that we checked.
________ (11) has bid on 200 recent auctions by 5 different sellers, 197 of which were auctions by [email protected]
This could simply mean that ________ (11) has a special interest in [email protected] 's merchandise.
====================================================================
POSSIBLE SHILL WARNING:
Bidder ID ________ (16) has bid on 6 of the 100 [email protected] auctions that we checked.
________ (16) has bid on 200 recent auctions by 4 different sellers, 179 of which were auctions by [email protected]
This could simply mean that ________ (16) has a special interest in [email protected] 's merchandise.
====================================================================
INFORMATION ONLY!
eSafe2Bid reviewed the following bidders for possible shill bidding. This is NOT a warning! Any resulting shill warnings would be listed above.
________ (10) : 200 of 200 recent bids were [email protected]'s auctions. Has bid on 2 different sellers.
________ (11) : 197 of 200 recent bids were [email protected]'s auctions. Has bid on 5 different sellers.
________ (16) : 179 of 200 recent bids were [email protected]'s auctions. Has bid on 4 different sellers.
====================================================================
[ edited by outoftheblue on Mar 29, 2001 10:19 PM ]
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outoftheblue
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posted on March 29, 2001 10:26:36 PM new
Let's get real here for a moment.
A clever shill would easily outsmart this program. The only ones that have any need to worry are the honest sellers that have no control over how their customers bid.
The program leaves out many important details and tells you nothing useful what so ever to determine if the person is a possible shill. The people who would be suckered into using this program would have no idea how to actually investigate this further, however they might report you to safeharbor...
This program only has one useful feature. The bulk feedback feature, but that is available on Ebay, Vrane and elsewhere.
Back to the drawing board.... 
[ edited by outoftheblue on Mar 29, 2001 10:35 PM ]
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on March 29, 2001 11:31:57 PM new
Below is the warning this program will show if you use private auctions. I have to find someone with private feedback now. I want to see the words of wisdom it will tell me. LOL
______________________________________________
REMEMBER!! Warnings below could be the result of legitimate activities. Use this as a guide for further review if deemed necessary.
====================================================================
USES PRIVATE AUCTIONS:
9 of the 25 ___(insert eBay id)___ auctions we checked were private auctions. Shill check could not be conducted on these auctions because ID's are hidden.
The use of private auctions can be for legitamite reasons.
They can also be used to prevent detection of shill or other prohibited bidding offenses. Caution is warranted!
edited to add the private feedback warning
REMEMBER!! Warnings below could be the result of legitimate activities. Use this as a guide for further review if deemed necessary.
====================================================================
WARNING:
___(insert eBay id)___ has set their feedback profile to private. Although there is certainly nothing that says feedback must be public, one must wander why it has been set to private. Caution is warranted.
[ edited by AnonymousCoward on Mar 29, 2001 11:40 PM ]
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on March 29, 2001 11:34:21 PM new
Gary
When I restarted the software I noticed it called home base to check if an upgrade was available for download. It tripped ZoneAlarm on its way out of my computer. Is this the only information it sends?
WARNING FELLOW AW'S
Although there is certainly nothing that says eSafe2Bid can't call home base, one must wander if this is the only information it sends. Caution is warranted.
[ edited by AnonymousCoward on Mar 29, 2001 11:49 PM ]
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outoftheblue
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posted on March 29, 2001 11:48:12 PM new
AnonymousCoward
When I restarted the software I noticed it called home base to check if an upgrade was available for download. It tripped ZoneAlarm on its way out of my computer.
That would be the auto-update feature. It runs every time you start the program. There is always need to be cautious but I don't think Gary is trying to harvest passwords.
ZoneAlarm drives me crazy! I finally uninstalled it.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Mar 29, 2001 11:52 PM ]
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on March 29, 2001 11:53:45 PM new
Outoftheblue
I know, thanks. It's just I wonder if the owner of this software appreciates me casting doubts on his software has his software is doing on honest sellers.
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abacaxi
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posted on March 30, 2001 03:25:30 AM new
esafe2bid -
Your software is snakeoil, nothing more. You don't seem to grasp that GOOD shillers don't win auctions! Their objective is to help others win at the highest price possible.
Your software also doesn't realize that GOOD shillers use multiple buyer IDs, and rotate them so none are too prominent. So you catch only the repeat buyers and the bad shillers, leaving your customers with a false sense of security.
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TheRedCircle
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posted on March 30, 2001 04:01:11 AM new
Now that's the leap of logic that was bugging me about the whole thing! I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with this analysis (my own computer has been stressing me out as of late), but that's it...shillers DON'T WIN auctions...unless they're really bad shillers that is. So most of this analysis is a lot of bunk.
This program is just a waste of disk space. At least it didn't seem to implant any spyware, but who knows where those passwords (real and fake) really went?
----
TRC
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redskinfan
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posted on March 30, 2001 05:58:05 AM new
perhaps he doesn't realize what a shiller really is???
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