posted on November 8, 2000 10:17:27 AM
Evidently, there was ANOTHER ballot box found in Palm Beach county at a school. According to CNN, it is up in the air whether these "lost" ballot boxes will be included in the "recount". However, they may be taken into consideration in the case of a court challenge. I have to agree with krs. If ANYONE other than a Bush family member was governor of Florida, it might look a whole lot different than it does now. It was known from the beginning that Florida was going to be THE battleground. It stinks to high heaven.
Also have heard on the news that there are allegations of "irregularities" in voter counts in Georgia and Missouri, both of which have been declared for Bush. Apparently this concerns the strong African-American voter presence in those states, and that the tally of such may not be (allegations) on the up and up.
No matter the outcome, this election will fuel speculation for years, certainly into the next presidential term (no matter the outcome) that something is rotten in the state of Denm...er Florida.
My post wasn't meant to be condescending at all. I do respect your right to your opinions and I stated as such. I also reserve the right to disagree with those opinions.
Nixon didn't contest, because of his own dirty tricks
And what exactly were those dirty tricks? I'd love to hear about them.
You're sure of a lot of things that may not be the case. You said that the absentee vote is heavily for Bush before it could possibly be counted. You're sure that there were legions of people at the polls in palm beach champing at the bit to assist the confused, and you're sure that the ballot was not confusing at all which alleviates the need for those legions. You're sure that a sample ballot which does not coincide with an actual ballot will have no affect since you're sure that people don't set the two alongside each other using the first to guide them in poking the second, and you're sure that everyone reads the actual ballot without regard to the sample.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:23:06 AM
People were coming out of the voting booths crying in confusion? Why did they go ahead and cast their vote if they were unsure of the mechanics? If they were that irresponsible casting their ballot, how responsible were they making their voting decisions?
Speaking of voting irregularities, in one of the So. Ca. communities, the chains on the punchers were too short to reach Bush on the ballot. Sad to say, but probably there were some who just voted what they could reach.
There is only one problem with your conspiracy theory: The person in charge of the voting process in Florida is the State Attorney General, who just happens to be a Democrat.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:36:59 AMYou said that the absentee vote is heavily for Bush before it could possibly be counted.
This is an easy one. Overseas absentee ballots are overwhelmingly cast by US Military personnel. In every election since 1960 these votes have been roughly 3 to 1 for Republicans. In the 1996 election, which Clinton won, the margin was even higher for the Republicans. I see no reason for this election to buck the trend.
You're sure that there were legions of people at the polls in palm beach champing at the bit to assist the confused, and you're sure that the ballot was not confusing at all which alleviates the need for those legions.
There are always people manning the polls just for the sole purpose of assisting those who need it and ask for it. As for the part about the ballot being confusing, I posted a link to the ballot in question. I have seen ballots that are much more confusing than this one. Buchanan and Gore aren't even close to being on the same line or near the same circle. And the arrows pointing to the appropriate circles should be a clue.
You're sure that a sample ballot which does not coincide with an actual ballot will have no affect since you're sure that people don't set the two alongside each other using the first to guide them in poking the second.
No, I didn't say or imply this at all. I just said that the moral of the story is to read the ballot before placing your vote.
and you're sure that everyone reads the actual ballot without regard to the sample.
If there is confusion here, please re-read my last response above.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:37:22 AM
"The person in charge of the voting process in Florida is the State Attorney General, who just happens to be a Democrat".
posted on November 8, 2000 10:43:22 AMWho's his boss, abin?
The citizens of the state of Florida. This is an elected position just like the Governorship. Attorneys General rarely walk in line with the Governor unless thay are of the same party affilation. They are often quite at odds with one another. And in an election like this one, I don't think the Democratic AG would go out of his way to help Bush's brother "steal" the election.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:48:08 AM
I certainly hope this election lights a fire under congress to pass an amendment negating the electoral college. Yes, it is to late for this election, but it will never happen again if they amend it. The electoral college should have been left in the 1800's.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:48:29 AM
You know, it would be ever so much simpler if they just dispensed with elections, abin, and consulted you instead, adept as you are at predicting future results from past record. Why, it looks as if you could have made a killing by simply offering your services to Mr. Gore. Perhaps then he might have been able to counter the nefarious electoral practices in the state of Florida which have brought him such discomfort.
I won't disagree. I don't like the fact that Bush is going to be the next President because Gore won the popular vote. But Bush will in fact be the next President because he WILL take Florida in the end. All of the numbers support this fact.
As much as I detest Gore, he should be the President elect IMO. I see nothing humorous about the situation with the vote in Florida. Ans all of these conspiracy theories do not add up. Sure, mistakes were made. But there was no conspiracy involved or believe me the vote wouldn't be anywhere near as close as it is now.
The past, when consistent, is a strong predictor of the future. If I'm wrong we'll all know about it in a few days. I've eaten my share of crow before (ie. Hillary vs. Lazio) and I'm sure I'll do it again. But in this case, I sincerely doubt it.
posted on November 8, 2000 11:03:07 AM
I think they should settle it with a skyjumping contest. The candidate that pulls the cord closest to the ground wins.
posted on November 8, 2000 11:15:17 AM
abingdoncomputers said: But there was no conspiracy involved or believe me the vote wouldn't be anywhere near as close as it is now.
We would be talking about a Baby Bush conspiracy here. He really is not very bright. "yup, Jeb we just hide a few of them there ballot boxes and dang if they'd ever
figer that one out..eeyup"
I would need more than this to believe it was a conspiracy, stupidity...well that one I will buy.
[ edited by tegan on Nov 8, 2000 11:16 AM ]
posted on November 8, 2000 11:29:07 AM
Just a few impressions:
I was uncomfortable last night hearing that Jeb Bush was on the phone to his brother and family telling them to pay no attention to the network projections about Florida, that nothing would be known till midnight. Then at midnight or thereabouts we start hearing about missing ballot boxes ... It certainly had the appearance of impropriety.
I was even more uncomfortable seeing Bush's statement on the news today, in which it seemed he was biting his lip to keep from laughing out loud, as he told reporters that he has been assured that once the Florida votes are recounted he will be the winner. It was Smirk City.
Seeing the results in Florida and a few other states, I have a lot of anger at Nader and his fan club (sorry Julesy, nothing personal). Admittedly, I probably wouldn't have felt this way had Gore won. But at the moment, faced with the prospect of George Bush as President, well, I can't help but be pissed off at the Naderites for spoiling.
posted on November 8, 2000 11:57:00 AM"I have a lot of anger at Nader and his fan club (sorry Julesy, nothing personal)."
None taken, Spaz. I pretty much knew from the beginning that Nader would be scapegoated, whether rightfully or not, if Gore lost. The fact remains though, that not everyone was dazzled by Gore and the man can't lose support he never had. The Media seems to be missing the point on this...Gore is a leader in the DLC, which a lot of Liberals are opposed to.
I'm thrilled about Hillary as well...also glad Florida dumped Bill "Howdy Doody" McCollum.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:09:20 PM
Nader didn't cause Gore to lose (if he indeed loses). That was one of several factors, and not the largest one by any means.
Gore would have set a record for how much money he raised for this campaign except that Bush raised about three times as much. This needs to be reformed badly.
He did not run a very good campaign. This should have been a walk in the park for him. The money of course was a huge hill for him to climb but he was so intent on separating himsel from Clinton and running on his own merits that he failed to capitalize on his greatest strength which is that he is the most qualified man for the job... by far... having been the most active and involved Vice President this country has ever had... by far. He also allowed Bush to define him rather than defining himself.
Gore did not speak in a human voice, and Bush did. Gore was robotic and contrived in appearance, while Bush is robotic and contrived in reality. Aww hell, both of them are robotic and contrived, but Bush is better at not coming across that way.
I've always thought it was lame to blame the kicker who misses the field goal at the end of the game, when the guy who fumbled in the first quarter, and the guy who missed a key block just before halftime get off the hook. It should have never come down to a few hundred votes in Florida.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:27:18 PM
I just looked at the picture of the ballot and I know I punched the hole by Gore but when I pulled it out of the machine I'm sure 4 was punched not 5. Didn't think anything about it at the time, now I wonder jst who I voted for.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:43:03 PM
I think the closeness of this election shows just how equally uninspiring both candidates are. It's disgraceful that these two buffoons were all America could offer as potential Presidents. Given the outcome, we should have just had a nationally televised coin toss.
I'm no Gore fan. I voted for him, but I would have pulled the same lever had it been marked "Anybody BUT George Bush."
The whole nation is watching.
