posted on November 8, 2000 12:47:06 PM
I stayed with it until 2am EST and then pooped out. Of course, my jaw dropped when I turned on the Today show this morning.
The media has been projecting winners for a long time. I may be wrong, but I don't ever recall them retracting a projection.
When the Bush camp came on and insisted that they knew they were the winners in Florida and that the media jumped the gun with their projection, it struck me as odd.
How could they know?
Were GW's brother not the Governor of Florida, and if I trusted GW, I probably wouldn't even question it.
Then, the news that some ballot boxes were missing and the police were out looking for them and their transporters...
Supposedly, they were left with the voting equipment at the polling place, to be picked up tomorrow (today). DUH!!!!
posted on November 8, 2000 01:02:49 PM
This "missing ballot box" issue is driving me nuts.....Having worked in corporate America & been involved with local civic organizations & school boards, I loathe politics, so there may be something I'm missing here....
But my question is this: If the powers that be, political entity, police dept, whatever hands out 10 ballot boxes at the beginning of the day, and at the end of the day receives back only 8 boxes, doesn't someone realize that they are short????....How can they possibly take the 8, count them, report their tallies and consider themselves done?....It makes absolutely NO SENSE to me!!!
posted on November 8, 2000 01:09:17 PM
True. Perhaps 10 were handed out...10 were returned...and 2 mysteriously reappeared... It's as likely as any other conspiracy scenario.
posted on November 8, 2000 01:21:08 PM
But Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach countys?? All with a heavy democratic constituency?? No "republican" county boxes missing (to date). Coincidence?? If this was a murder investigation, the cops would be looking for a body.
posted on November 8, 2000 01:29:41 PM
Where better to plant evidence of impropriety? The stakes are the same for both parties...the presidency. I have no doubt that both sides are equally capable of dirty tricks.
Democrats could conceivably undo the Florida election in precisely this fashion.
Of course, I'm an independent...as if you couldn't guess...
At this point, this is all just speculation. I'd just like to see equal aspersions cast upon both sides.
posted on November 8, 2000 01:34:52 PM"This "missing ballot box" issue is driving me nuts"
Latest news on the 'found ballot box' just does more to discredit the news services. Seems it wasn't a ballot box but a box of school supplies. They opened it and found a bunch of crayons and other stuff. Ridiculous they'd report this stuff as fact so quickley.
Of course there are also rumors of a missing ballot box being found on a grassy knoll too details are sketchy at present, but I'm sure that books on the 'grassy knoll ballot box' will be published soon.
posted on November 8, 2000 01:40:40 PM
Yes, but both sides don't have a brother that is the governor of that state. Of course, it would be really stupid of both of them to jeopardize their political careers. But, then again this may not be the smartest family around.
posted on November 8, 2000 01:47:01 PM
Good ole' Jeb went on National TV last week and told his brother that he would 'get' Florida for him. I wonder how he defines 'get'.
Interesting. The person in charge in FL is a Democrat and she is very pro-Gore. However; the smugness of the Bush clan in the face of a very tight race in FL is a bit much IMHO and does not add credibility but comes across as being too sure....
I do believe that the Nader vote in several states put a vote in Bush's pocket. He did not earn enough to gain the financial support next year - so now it apppears instead that the Nader vote will bring us the lovely two Supreme court nominees Bush wants. Which is something that I was dreading as they will be on the court for the majority of my life and their favortism in supporting ultra conservative issues is very frightening. The world has moved on technologically etc. yet these two nominees want us women to live back 50 years ago and now will have the power to decide issues that will drastically affect women's concerns.
Bush said that if he won the popular vote but lost the electoral that he would go to court to try to get it changed. Interesting as Gore has now done just that. The people have voted for Gore - yet I do not see mama or daddy Bush advising dubya to follow what he preached.
Which brings me to the electoral versus popular system. I have always been told to appreciate the country I live in. That I am very lucky to live in a country where the majority rules and the people are free and choose the leaders of this great nation. With the electoral voting system in place - those beliefs are simple fallacies.
Abingdoncomputers -
Hey, we actually agree Gore should be President as he was voted in by the people but because of our antiquated system it looks as though it will be dubya. Did we bet on the Hillary win?
posted on November 8, 2000 02:08:01 PM
Question, if anyone knows:
It is my impression that what is going on now is NOT a recount. There will only be a recount if the two parties are less than 1% apart. They are looking at 'batches' of ballots, but they still don't know if the spread will be less than 1%.
posted on November 8, 2000 02:35:36 PM
What they're doing now is a recount mandated by state law, triggered by the closeness of the vote. I've forgotten the exact percentile that accomplished this.
posted on November 8, 2000 02:39:20 PM
Toke: Any chance you have a link for that information? I'm listening to MSNBC now and they just got done talking about the fact that this is not YET a recount.
Also, I was wrong, it has to be less then half of one percent for an automatic recount.
It sure sounds like everyone is expecting a recount, but I don't think it *is* an official recount yet.
posted on November 8, 2000 03:52:58 PM
I still think they should settle it with a skydiving contest... that way, whoever wins would immediately be replaced by their running mate... http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/ [email protected]
posted on November 8, 2000 04:18:48 PM
It's 1/2 of one percent (figure it out now) and they're SUPPOSED to be doing a recount, but in Florida they're SUPPOSED to do elections like every other state does.
posted on November 8, 2000 04:25:50 PM
Ralph Nadar has demanded a recount in Alaska, and a comment about him from wall street where netstocks have taken a sharp nosedive:
"RALPH NADER.... If you like Gore, you gotta HATE this guy. 96,000 votes in Florida. 96,000 tree-huggin,dope-smokin', Skynryd-listenin', health-food-store-lovin', gap-toothed SWAMP RATS! And if you're a George W. fan, you love Ralphie and this pack of loveable, cuddly fleece-wearing, never-takin-a-bath in my-entire-life-lovin' crew!"
TALLAHASSEE -- With the closest presidential
election in American history hinging on a recount in
all 67 Florida counties, state elections officials say
it would take two days to re-check the numbers --
and even by then the world may not know whether
George W. Bush or Al Gore is president.
Meanwhile, three Palm Beach County residents
filed a lawsuit today asking that a new election be
held in the county because of irregularities in the
presidential ballot.
The lawsuit, filed in Palm Beach County Circuit
Court against the county's vote canvassing board
and election officials, claims the listing of
presidential candidates on two pages confused
supporters of Vice President Al Gore, who fear
they accidentally cast their votes for Reform Party
Candidate Pat Buchanan because of the way the
punch-card ballot was laid out.
posted on November 8, 2000 05:33:06 PM
.AP..."Lawyers for the Democratic Party say a two-page ballot listing presidential candidates on different lines is illegal under state law and they may
ask for a revote in Palm Beach County. The ballots would have to be challenged in court. As of late Wednesday afternoon, no lawsuit had been filed.... Florida law
specifies that voters mark an X in the blank space to the right of the name of the candidate they want to vote for. On the Palm Beach County presidential ballot, six
candidates were listed on one page facing a listing of four candidates on another page.Buchanan's name was listed first on the right page, opposite and between Bush
and Gore's names. Although Gore's name was listed second on the first page, voters had to punch the third whole in a middle column to cast a ballot for Gore. Lawyer
Jeff Liggio, a lawyer for county Democrats, called the ballot ``illegal.'' ``Right means right, doesn't it? The state law says right, it doesn't mean left,'' said Liggio, one of
several lawyers representing the Democratic Party.... A former head of the Federal Elections Commission said if state law says all candidates must be listed vertically
on a page and the voting marks must the made to the right, the county election is moot.``If that's the way it is worded it would, in fact be an ineffective ballot,'' said
Washington D.C. lawyer Kenneth Gross, an election law specialist."
posted on November 8, 2000 05:36:40 PM
abingdon wrote:
Overseas absentee ballots are overwhelmingly cast by US Military personnel. In every election since 1960 these votes have been roughly 3 to 1 for Republicans. In the 1996 election, which Clinton won, the margin was even higher for the Republicans. I see no reason for this election to buck the trend.
Have you got a source for that? Because that's not what I've heard at all.
The Bush campaign SPINS that the military absentee ballot will be overwhelmingly in their favor, but the only stats I've heard (via the coverage yesterday and today) were that in the last election, the absentee votes were only 52% in favor of Republicans. Still a majority, but a slight one, nothing like the 3 to 1 you claimed.
Further, one pundit today mentioned (correctly) that the military is peopled with quite a few minority members. They won't necessarily vote for Bush either.
IMO, the vote is out (literally) on the absentee ballots.
posted on November 8, 2000 05:39:57 PM
Did anyone pick up on this?.....
On CNN's "Burden of Proof" today, a caller said an elections supervisor in his Missouri precinct handed him Christian Coalition campaign material with his balllot and
told him, "God wants you to vote for George W. Bush." When the voter said he thought the supervisor's actions were illegal, she told him that the Christian Coalition wanted her to educate the voters in this way. The voter reported the supervisor to the police. This is only one of the many complaints that are rising to the surface in what was a highly-contested presidential race in Missouri.
posted on November 8, 2000 05:49:36 PM
One more shot, then dinner.
Creating such ballot confusion is, of course, an old political
trick. In fact, some e-mailers claim that a similar ballot problem came up in North Carolina during the tough primary battle between Bush and McCain earlier in the
year. Perhaps Bush political guru Karl Rove recalls earlier examples than that of such ballot manipulations, having even presented, according to newspaper reports,lectures on the subject to GOP party members some years ago. Right now, Bush is leading in Florida by under 1800 votes. As you can see on the graph, the Buchanan
discrepency in Palm Beach County is around 2500 votes. it's difficult to believe that any of the votes are honestly Buchanan's. Perhaps a new vote should be taken in
Palm Beach County. Given the nature of Florida politics, it's not surprising to learn that there is precedent for doing just that.
It's as likely as any other conspiracy scenario.
Gore should be President as he was voted in by the people but because of our antiquated system it looks as though it will be dubya. Did we bet on the Hillary win?
