posted on November 8, 2000 05:57:56 PM new
I'm amused by all this brouhaha about the Bushes ostensibly being so "sure" of the election results that they called the media re its projection of a Gore win. First of all, EACH side has said all along that it's "confident" (sure) of a win. And aAll that's been reported is that the Bush camp called the media and said "Hey - not so fast." The FL polls weren't even closed yet!
I live in the FL Panhandle. We're in the Central time zone, so our polls close an hour later than they do in the rest of the state. The media made its projection after the East Florida polls closed, but an hour BEFORE poll closing in the Panhandle. Nevertheless, Dan Rather said, in effect, "hey, Panhandle, it's all over, may as well stay home".
As it turned out, my county (overwhelmingly Repoublican) voted for Bush, 73,029 to 40,958. So did the other two counties in the Panhandle - Okaloosa (38,637 to 18,850) and Santa Rosa (36,248 to 12,795). That's a net gain of 75,231 votes for Bush - completely ignored by the media in making its projection of a Gore win.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 8, 2000 05:59 PM ]
posted on November 8, 2000 06:02:58 PM new
Actually, I'm sure the media pretty much knew that the panhandle counties would go overwhelming republican and (thought that they) took that into account.
Of course, that in no way makes up for their inexcusable performance last night. What a joke. I can see making one prediction (Gore Wins!!) and then having to retract it. But - before I made a second prediction (Bush Wins!!) - I'd be absolutely positive it was right. Nope, they messed the second one up too.
posted on November 8, 2000 06:25:38 PM new
KRS~ I saw that on CNN today, where the guy was talking about being urged to vote for Bush because 'it's what God want's' and talking about the Christian Right and stuff. The first thing I thought was that the trolls are usually more believable at AuctionWatch than that one... http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/ [email protected]
posted on November 8, 2000 07:27:26 PM newI'm sure the media pretty much knew that the panhandle counties would go overwhelming republican and (thought that they) took that into account.
What did they do, say "Oh, the part of the state that's still voting is going to go overwhelmingly Republican even though we haven't got exit poll data on them, so even though we don't release our projections on any OTHER state before that state's polls close, we'll set that practice aside for our projection on Florida, one of the states essential to a win"?
The media screwed up, plain and simple, and Florida's taking the blame.
posted on November 8, 2000 07:41:14 PM new
In Canada--you are not allowed to do any media coverage of the polls or predictions on the day of the election until all the voting has ceased for the entire country. So the whole of Canada has to wait for results til British Columbia finishes.
The reason for it is that they feel that the voting results back East will effect the voting in the West.
posted on November 8, 2000 07:58:44 PM newThe media screwed up, plain and simple, and Florida's taking the blame.
I have seen a great many recriminations and pointing of fingers during this, but I have yet to see anyone blame the state of Florida for the presumptions of the media in making the premature call about Florida. The media is shouldering the responsibility for that completely.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:24:02 PM new
If you observed any activity on Election Day that you feel is questionable, please report it directly to your local election
officials and your political party officials. Also, here is a watchdog group that monitors voter fraud. If you have specifics about what happened in Florida, contact them.
Deborah M Phillips, Chairman and President, THE VOTING INTEGRITY PROJECT, "Defending Your Freedom By Protecting Your Vote," www.votingintegrity.org,
(888) 578-4343, PO Box 6470, Arlington VA 22206
posted on November 8, 2000 08:29:54 PM new
I just posted this to the *email FL* thread, but I think it's important enough to put here too.
My local news just reported that 19,000 ballots have been THROWN OUT in Florida because they had been double-punched for the Presidential nominee. Yup, Palm Beach County.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:37:37 PM new
Yeah, I've heard that as many as 7000 were tossed, but they didn't seem at all sure. Some definitely were.
The sensible proposal would seem to be to allow a revote in that county in which only those who had previously voted (they have that info) could vote again.
This confusion question is not a sour grape reaction to the result. The various media were receiving hundreds of complaints throughout the day about the ballot .
I'm not finding mention of the previous complaint that the sample sent to voters differed from the actual ballot and also brought confusion. Wonder what happened to that.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:47:55 PM new
The local news here at 6 pm said that ballots in Fl. should have candidates names, amendments, all writing to the left of the punches, according to Fl law. Not to the right.
The ballot here was the most confusing one I've ever seen. The holes were tiny, and close together-challenging for someone with nonperfect vision.
[ edited by snowyegret on Nov 8, 2000 08:53 PM ]
posted on November 8, 2000 10:24:33 PM new
The NAACP (New York) is investigating the possibility that as many as 19,000 blacks were turned away from polls in Florida and not allowed to vote.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:52:06 PM new
Vanishing Votes in Volusia?
A Florida Democratic Party official has raised a concern
that thousands of votes for Gore may have been omitted
from the Democrat’s vote total because of a computer
error in Volusia County.
The problem was due to a faulty computer disk that
contained results from a particular precinct, but county
officials have not yet said specifically what the trouble
was.
According to Bob Poe, state chairman for the Florida
Democratic Party, Democrats had received reports of an
instance in which a preliminary voting count this morning
for Gore in Volusia County, reported by Florida election
officials, actually decreased by about 10,000 over time,
before climbing again.
“Now that might have been a typo, who knows,” he
told ABCNEWS.com. “Stranger things have happened in
Volusia County.”
The alleged decrease may also have been detected by
Miles Gibson, a PhD candidate and instructor at the
University of Virginia, who says he recorded 2,716,995
votes for Gore in Florida at 2:06 a.m. this morning and
then 2,707,798 votes for Gore at around 2:15 a.m., while
following a national newscast.
“I can’t certify these numbers, but I was paying
extremely careful attention,” Gibson said.
posted on November 8, 2000 10:55:15 PM new
Democratic Party officials also alleged voters were
intimidated and misinformed before entering voting booths
in states including Missouri, Michigan, Iowa, and Kansas.
Democratic officials relayed unconfirmed reports from
Iowa of senior citizens receiving telephone calls telling
them they could not vote unless specifically registered for
the election.
“This isn’t true,” said Backus. It’s “designed to
confuse seniors and keep them from voting for Al Gore
… We won’t stand for it and challenge the other side to
stand up as well.”
In West Virginia, according to officials, voters were
receiving calls from a Republican phone bank in California
falsely telling them Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., had not
endorsed Gore.
In fact, said Hattaway, “it’s the first time he has
endorsed a Democrat for president since 1964, when he
endorsed Lyndon Johnson.”
In an incident not described by Democratic officials,
Kansas’ state government is looking into telephone calls
made to some residents giving false information about the
state’s election laws, according to The Associated Press.
Democrats had reported getting recorded messages
Monday night incorrectly telling them they must bring
voter registration cards to polling places to be allowed to
cast a ballot, the AP reported.
The campaign of Rep. Dennis Moore, a Democrat
seeking re-election in the 3rd Congressional District, had
contacted the FBI this morning about the phone calls.
Moore’s office played the message for the AP:
“Failure to comply with election law is serious business, so
make sure you have your card and do it right.”
posted on November 9, 2000 06:26:12 AM new
Something is very rotten in Florida.
"The Volusia County elections office was locked and put under guard Wednesday until the county’s canvassing board can meet to recount ballots. One of the reasons
given for the lockdown was an incident early Wednesday morning in which an elections office was spotted leaving with two bags. The employee later was stopped and
searched by deputies who suspected the bags might contain ballots. Deputies turned up only personal items and a single blank sample ballot but said it was one of the
reasons why the elections office is locked down this morning. There was crime scene tape around the office and several deputies were posted outside. In addition,officials with the Republican Party-some of whom would not identifythemselves - were outside the elections office Wednesday morning trying to find out what was happening with the recount." --ORLANDO SENTINEL
"A judge ordered the special protection while officials figure out what happened to 16,000 votes. This all began around 11 o'clock Tuesday night when election officials
noticed that Democratic Presidential candidate Al Gore lost 16,000 votes that had previously appeared on the computer screen. County leaders say they isolated the
problem to a faulty computer disk in precinct 216 in DeLand. Now, Volusia County's unofficial tally gives Gore 97,063 and Bush 82,214 votes. County spokesman Dave
Byron believes that tally is correct. He says the canvassing board went back and manually counted the votes of the precinct in question.." --ISF
posted on November 9, 2000 07:45:11 AM new
Four Floridians have filed a lawsuit over the ballot in South Florida.
For those of you that say they should have reviewed the sample ballot - they did. The problem is the sample ballot did not have the holes.
For others who say they should have asked for help etc. When voting they felt they voted correctly. 2nd name Al Gore - 2nd punchole - assumed to be Al Gore as it was 2nd and right next to the word Democrat. Unfortunately, it was not unti they were home and found out that the second hole was actually for a cadidate on the right page and again, unfortunately, was next to democrat and 2nd on the ballot as Al Gore's name was. Then people realized what had happened. "OMG - I punched that 2nd button - and I wanted Al Gore." That from a voter on Good Morning America today. She is 52, college educated and is now joining the lawsuit.
The lady that changed the ballot format says she did it so that the writing would be larger for the elderly voters. She agrees that the placement of the holes was deceiving now - an afterthought.
As for all of the other accusations - I am sure if we looked deeply at all States we would find some. But having a ballot that is obviously formatted poorly and testimonials are there that votes were placed wrong - that I have a big problem with.
Janet Reno - has now said she will get involved if either party requests a full analysis into Florida voting and counting management/policies.
Poor Bill - looks like he isn't go far for a while.
PS - As of this morning the vote difference is only 961 votes.
Allen Dershowitz is on now and says he believes and agrees that there will be lawsuits regarding the 22,000 votes in the county with the quirky ballots. In addition 19,000 votes were thrown out because of double voting - who were those for?
posted on November 9, 2000 08:04:39 AM new
Good Morning
HCQ,
More for your amusement:
There has never been a problem in the past when projecting Florida. Projections for Florida were made, accurately, at the same time as the rest of the east coast.
Until Florida became the deciding state this time, I didn't even know Florida had different time zones.
I have never heard a candidate before question the media's early projections.
And, of course, both candidates were "sure" of winning Florida.
But, only one, before this mess is even cleared up, has his transition team in motion and only one has his victory party still on for tonight.
That would be the arrogant one, GW.
----------
On a lighter note amidst all of this heaviness:
I heard a very funny interview with Carl Hiaasen, an author from Florida.
According to him, "Yassar Arafat would get more votes in Palm Beach County than Pat Buchanan".
posted on November 9, 2000 08:10:53 AM new
You mean these?:
"19,000 MOSTLY GORE BALLOTS TOSSED OUT BY PALM BEACH ELECTION OFFICIALS ON ELECTION NIGHT...PALM BEACH RESIDENTS PETITIONING FOR NEW ELECTION...RESIDENTS FILE LAWSUITS...BUSH LEAD NOW UNDER 1,000...PINELLAS COUNTY ORDERS RECOUNT OF RECOUNT"
(pattaylor, if you're out there; this is a headline cut and paste---I'm not yelling )
posted on November 9, 2000 08:28:00 AM new
Yeah. I rarely look at network stuff--something sick about happy smiley faces relaying the most gruesome news. and I've got to leave anyway for a while. But that's an apt comment, and Dershowitz is as able a constitutional analyst as there is in the country, so I'm kinda' sorry to have missed his take. I'll pick it up later.
posted on November 9, 2000 09:18:12 AM new
Femme....I caught that interview...He was extemely amusing, in light of all this turmoil...I especially enjoyed his comment (although I sure Floridians wouldn't have) on the fact that those who believe this was all an indepth conspiracy never lived in South Fla!
posted on November 9, 2000 09:46:51 AM new
Femme,
Arrogant - YES - that is another reason they get under my skin.
While I have great respect for Mr. Bush SR and his wife - I cannot stand good ole' boy Jeb - "I will give you Florida, Dubya" and George Jr.
Another interesting note - on Good Morning Today they also noted that Dubya's running mate has two drunk driving convictions - that is a great man of character there.
The area that had the high % for Buchanan is also primarily Jewish and would never in their right mind vote for Buchanan.
posted on November 9, 2000 10:37:46 AM new
Gore's advisors are now intimating that they will be taking legal action and working with Palm Beach voters to insure this happens.
Following are a couple points made by him:
"There actions to crown themselves the victors run the risk in dividing the American people. Let the people make the decision. We are just going to insure the rule of Democratic law prevails."
Apparently they do have a legal stand as the sample ballot did not match the actual ballot and that is illegal. The Bush camp says they match, however; voters have supplied their sample ballots and the polling people have supplied the actual ballot and compared on TV - they do not match.
posted on November 9, 2000 12:08:28 PM new
Now a report of Florida Highway Patrol ticketing of blacks at polling places in the panhandle.
I wonder how many residents sat in their windows 'amused' by the spectacle.
According to Bob Poe, Chairman for the Florida Democratic Party, reported irregularities...also include, he said, lesser known reports of possible voter intimidation in certain
African-American precincts and possibly thousands of lost votes due to a possible computer glitch. “There are a lot of questions here, there are a lot of angry Floridians,” Democratic
National Committee spokeswoman Jenny Backus said today. “People are talking about taking away somebody’s constitutional right to vote, there are thousands, literally thousands of
reports of irregularities.” Jesse Jackson said he got calls on Election Day complaining that blacks had difficulty voting in Florida and other southern states. Jackson said some voters were
told there were no more ballots, or that polls were closed. “What we need is not just a recount by hand, but also a thorough investigation, ” Jackson said. Poe told
ABCNEWS.com Democrats had received reports of intimidation of voters in the largely African-American precincts of Wakulla County on the Florida panhandle. Reports suggest
“highway patrol troopers were stationed outside of those precincts with lights flashing and ticketing people,” he said. “It was bizarre, it was like going back into the early 1900s,” he said.
“Even in a tiny town like Wakulla and those African-American precincts, that could account for the 2,000 [Gore votes] right there,” he said." --ABC NEWS, 11/8/00
posted on November 9, 2000 12:14:10 PM new
I'm totally disgusted now. Jesse Jackson is in Florida to set things right. Our state just got to deal with him and some of his tactics.
posted on November 9, 2000 12:23:55 PM new
In the better late than never, department:
11-09-2000
(Portland-AP) -- Vice President Al Gore has taken a slight lead over Texas Governor George W. Bush in the see-saw Oregon vote count.
Each candidate has 47 percent of the vote with 5 percent going to Green Party candidate Ralph Nader.
With 96 percent of the vote counted Gore had 662,155 votes to 658,152 for Bush, a difference of about 4,000. Most of the late vote count is from Multnomah County, where Gore was expected to do well.
Oregon is the only state in the nation to have not completed its first offiical count. Final unofficial results won't be available until today at the earliest, and it appears possible the margin between the two might be small enough to trigger an automatic recount.
I don't suffer from insanity -- I enjoy every minute of it.
posted on November 9, 2000 12:28:08 PM new
The Reverend Jackson, always a skilled orator, has actually improved in his speech delivery in the past few years. In his speech this morning he stressed that this is NOT a black/white issue. It is about disenfranchising voters regardless of their color or culture. I especially enjoyed his analogy to a carwreck regarding the Palm Beach County vote, regarding "alignment" of the ballot holes to the wheels of a car. His words, "There was a carwreck in Palm Beach County on Tuesday". Very effective, IMHO.
KatyD
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