posted on May 16, 2001 09:17:30 AM new
Hi
Auction ended last night.
I was on line and received a request to send Billpoint Invoice. Since it was a book, I sent the rates for priority or book rate.
This morning they requested book rate
I sent a bill point invoice
They paid.
Then emailed me this message,
"payment has been forwarded by billpoint....as with all my transactions....if item is not received within 14 days, expect negative feedback, otherwise...very positive feedback will be posted.....thank you...."
I am just on my way out the door with items which were paid for on Tuesday. I do not have time to pack it up.
They were offered priority and did not want to pay. How am I supposed to control the post office. I am still wating for theatre tickets from April which have never arrived.
Hard to shake the sick feeling I have and I have quoted rates, sent invoices and the auction is not even 14 hours over and I am being threatened??????
posted on May 16, 2001 09:27:03 AM new
Hi Mildreds:
I think this buyer is simply using this threat as a ploy to be sure you promptly ship his book.
My experience with Media Mail (formerly book rate) is that delivery is generally within 7 days or less, regardless of destination. Many receive their items within 2 days.
I would send an email to the buyer stating exactly what you posted, i.e. you cannot possibly be held accountable for the speed of the USPS. If you feel it necessary you can obtain a certificate of mailing (for 75¢) to prove you shipped the order promptly.
If this buyer is a book collector and frequently buys books he probably always opts for shipping via Media Mail and also probably sends this "threat" to all sellers. It would be interesting to look at his feedback left and see how many sellers he has negged. I really think he just wants to be sure his book is shipped quickly.
posted on May 16, 2001 09:28:24 AM new
I wouldn't necessarily feel threatened. I would, however, respond with something like this:
Dear XXX,
Your book was shipped on Y date via media mail. Media mail can be a bit slower to arrive than first class or priority mail.
I hope you book will be to your shortly but please give it sufficient time to arrive given the mailing option chosen.
I will gladly keep in contact with you until the book is received safely by you.
Perhaps that will put them at ease in case it takes a bit longer than the 14 days. I've found using something like the above calms 99% of the concerns any buyer might show.
posted on May 16, 2001 09:56:33 AM new
LOL!
Classic move and to be quite honest I'm impressed as hell with this buyer.
Too many sellers nowadays seem to think buyers control the speed mail travels, and have the "payment must be recieved by" line in their TOS, many are exactly 14 days.
Perhaps your buyer has just had to deal with too many goofy rules and has opted to have his own goofy set of rules. With so many sellers reporting a drastic drop in sales this could very well be the wave of the future on Ebay. Your on your way out the door, don't have time to pack an item that's already paid for, but just had to stop and put up a post on AW.
The market is getting competitive, it's time to improve your customer service or get used to negs.
posted on May 16, 2001 10:12:12 AM new
"I am just on my way out the door with items which were paid for on Tuesday. I do not have time to pack it up. "
Could'a packed it last night. Takes me 4 minutes to pack a book.
posted on May 16, 2001 10:25:03 AM new
Just out of curiosity, Mildreds: what did your end of auction notice say? Anything about the dire consequences of not having the payment in your hands by X days after the auction?
posted on May 16, 2001 10:44:26 AM new
Media Rate from Hawaii can take up to 6 WEEKS, which is why I have to post this in my auctions and my WBNs.
However, I have found that using the ZIP+4 and putting a barcode on the shipping label (which I learned from some smart person here at AW), results in the mail arriving faster. I use WordPerfect to prepare my labels and it has a barcode function; and, I look up the ZIP+4 at www.usps.com.
I also include the cost of Delivery Confirmation in my shipping costs & send the tracking number to the buyer when I notify them their package has shipped. I have never had anyone write back and ask where their package is.
Some people may not have time for these two little steps, but I believe following this procedure has saved me time in that I don't have to answer a lot of unnecessary e-mails. And, my feedback almost always reflects "fast shipping" or "great communication".
I hope this helps. It can be very frustrating to deal with someone who threatens you for actions or inactions that are beyond your control. I'm not sure if what they wrote qualifies as feedback extortion, but I'd hold off on leaving feedback myself until the transaction is completed.
posted on May 16, 2001 10:58:08 AM new
I have just recently started leaving neutrals for slow shipping.
I won an auction and received a personal EOA within the hour. They preferred BidPay. I had never used them, but like to accomodate my sellers so I signed up and had a MO ordered within 30minutes of the EOA. I sent an email stating I had never used BP before and if they had not received notice pretty soon to let me know so I could check and make sure everything was OK.
Heard nothing and 10 days later still no package, (I paid for Priority/Ins)so I emailed to see if there was problem. I received a reply that my payment had been received and the package would go out the next day!
7 days later, I received the item. It was sent 1st class/insured. I posted a neutral: Pymt made w/BP XX/XX-Item mailed XX/XX. I made no comment about the difference in shipping. This seller had not left FB yet so I got a neutral: Item shipped upon receipt of payment (seems to imply I am a slow payer)
I responded: BP pymt XX/XX-Pkg mailed after email XX/XX
Any buyer looking at the sellers FB can see that shipment will not necessarily be made promptly. Any seller looking at mine will see I expect prompt shipment. If they want to cancel my bid they are free to do so.
posted on May 16, 2001 11:13:30 AM new
Usually this type of threat is from the seller to the buyer -- Be sure to pay for this in 10 days, or negative feedback will be left. Pretty rude, if you ask me. It's always been tempting to respond to one of these WBN's with a similar threat the way mildred's customer has.
I guess my question is the same as glasshat's -- did your WBN include a similar "threat" of consequences for non-payment? About a third of the WBN's I receive have language similar to this. I would guess this is what the buyer is reacting to -- if not a "threat" in your WBN, then to the "threats" in other WBN's he's received.
If you normally ship in a timely fashion, I would suggest you do as I do when confronted with this type of rudeness -- just shrug it off. Though to get proof of mailing would seem wise, to protect yourself just in case the guy turns out to be a nut and not just rude.
posted on May 16, 2001 11:35:33 AM new
Since when did a seller stating in their TOS or WBN the date by which payment is expected become an incorrect thing to do?
Every other bill I receive has a payment due by date on it..why should a seller's WBN be any different?
Now I agree if the seller has posted dire consequences in 16 point bold font about what they are going to do if the buyer doesn't comply see nothing wrong with a simple statement: "Payment is due within 14 days of auction close date".
posted on May 16, 2001 11:40:46 AM new
I state in all of my auction that payment is due within 2 weeks of the close of the auction. That's it, no threats of negative feedback or anything.
If payment isn't received within 2 weeks, I send a followup reminder to check on status of payment. if no reponse is received from that email, I file the NPB and FVF request 10 days later... In all, I give them a MONTH to get payment to me... I don't feel that is unreasonable, and I'd be more than willing to offer extensions if buyers CONTACT me about issues/problems... .its those buyers than never bother to contact me that i really hate.
posted on May 16, 2001 11:53:17 AM new
Between Dec and mid-January, I had PRIORITY pacakges take 14 days "en route" for goodness sakes.
I've had Media mail arrive to me (I've never shipped by it since my local PO seems to think it can't apply to video game cartridges, only tapes, CDs and books, even when I point out their rules to them) within as few as 5 days, as much as 3 weeks.
I would promptly forward this threat to safeharbor with the factual information, cc: the buyer and state that it was shipped by media mail by their choice and may take longer than 14 days but they can be assured the post mark will indicate "May 16" and ask that they refrane from threatening you when you honored their request for slower/cheaper shipping and to not threaten you again. (This is feedback extortion)
Also, I would pay a bit more and get either delivery confirmation (though that usually is a waste I think) or a lot more for return receipt or something, so you can prove to eBay if the buyer trys to pull something. (Not that eBay will listen or remove this negative feedback of course, but you will have proof anyway)
posted on May 16, 2001 12:01:11 PM new
I don't think it was right for the buyer to threaten negative feedback if they don't receive their item within 14 days since they chose the slower shipping method.
A couple of times it took books 2 1/2 weeks to get from Ohio to California, not my fault at all certainly, but the buyers didn't punish me for it since they could see by the postmark date that it was a postal delay and not slow shipping on my part.
That said, I always make sure that I've processed all payments I've received up until the point I'm ready to walk out the door. I can understand why this might not be possible depending on your volume of business though. If your Inbox is never empty, you do need a cut-off point. But I still think I would have made sure to package up this particular buyer's book just to get rid of it in the most timely fashion.
Like punkinhed said, in the time spent posting here you could have packaged up that book and maybe relieved yourself of some anxiety?
posted on May 16, 2001 12:23:53 PM new
It's all just a part of the changing face of Ebay and online auctions in general, sellers have had the power to make rules since day 1,
with sales slowing though the ones to make the TOS's soon will be the buyers.
If a buyer can't get me my item within a certain time frame I need just scroll further to find one that will.
We can't say how competition is a good thing for Ebay, but for us we require an exclusive market. Competition is good, period.
It makes us all better sellers and more aware of customers needs.
posted on May 16, 2001 12:39:58 PM new
my take on it's the same: this is the buyer's own 'eoa' email to sellers - either automated or a copy/paste job. definitely a buyer who's been put off by too many threats from sellers with their eoa's stating payment due within xx days, or else be negged. not a good idea - for sellers or buyers.
posted on May 16, 2001 01:32:45 PM new
I've been having media mail which goes through California taking forever lately. Don't know if it has anything to do with their power problems. Not getting anything on the delivery confirmations until they're actually delivered. Have two packages sent the 3rd & 5th - no DC information since they left Des Moines, which I think is the local hub that all mail goes through. Have media going East mailed on 8th, 11th which have already reached destination. Has anyone else been having this problem?
posted on May 16, 2001 10:08:37 PM new
Hi I just opened my email and saw all the replies. Thanks for all of the thoughts.
I checked the feedback, all positives, one neutral which from what was posted, my buyer didn't deserve. I guess other people don't mind being threatened as I am assuming he sends this email to all his sellers.
eventeer: Thanks for the thoughts. I planned on sending him something along those lines along with a scan of the delivery confirmation receipt I will purchase.
punkinhead: My description stated, Buyer to pay priority or media shipping. Book weighs 2 pounds 3 ounces without packaging. Payment Paypal, Billpoint, check money order.
Nothing about time frames.
"Your on your way out the door, don't have time to pack an item that's already paid for, but just had to stop and put up a post on AW.
The market is getting competitive, it's time to improve your customer service or get used to negs."
This buyer was sent a choice of shipping totals before the auction was 3 HOURS old. Not three days for initial contact as stated by ebay but 3 hours. I purchased a scale to quote rates without running to the post office and to give good quick customer service. He had his choice of rates before ebay even sent the end of auction notices.
I had 18 winning auctions from Mon and Tue late evenings. Between sending the end of auction notices and sorting through the emails from buyers and paypal and billpoint payments, and packing up 7 packages I had to set a cutoff time as I had to get to the post office and then my shop. I made the mistake of looking at my email one last time
I could not have packaged the book rather than type because I did not have the supplies ready for non priority shipping.
I would like to package items before the auction ends but I ship international and with a choice of shipping, and 90 % of my auctions going priority, I can't package before auction ends. Although I would sure like to.
I realize you do not know my feedback rating but all of my customers have written glowing reports of fast contact, shipment and packaging. I do ship probably 95%of time within 24 hours of payment. Including personal checks.
capotasto: "Could'a packed it last night. Takes me 4 minutes to pack a book."
I didn't get an email until this morning about priority or media.
glashat: All I ever state is "Buyer to pay $xx dollars shipping" and the method of payment.
misscandle: Thanks for sharing your method!
sulyn1950: "Any buyer looking at the sellers FB can see that shipment will not necessarily be made promptly" Mine can. Almost all my feedback states "fast shipment"
triplesnack:"did your WBN include a similar "threat" of consequences for non-payment?" NOPE
BJGrolle: "That said, I always make sure that I've processed all payments I've received up until the point I'm ready to walk out the door. I can understand why this might not be possible depending on your volume of business though. If your Inbox is never empty, you do need a cut-off point. But I still think I would have made sure to package up this particular buyer's book just to get rid of it in the most timely fashion."
I do process everything before I leave on Mon and Tue when I am not at the shop, but today I made the mistake of checking my email for a personal message right before I walked out the door. I should not have. I was mad when I posted. Especially since I had worked all morning on being a fast reponsive seller.
Like punkinhed said, in the time spent posting here you could have packaged up that book and maybe relieved yourself of some anxiety? "
Yes If I only shipped books and had a roomful of supplies.
posted on May 16, 2001 10:24:45 PM new
I wouldn't sweat it. Just email the buyer how the item was shipped and expect the best. I admit that looks threatening, but how many sellers have similar terms in their TOS?
posted on May 16, 2001 10:42:52 PM new
From my experience amazon.com charge approx. US$7.00 ABOVE ACTUAL POSTAGE to send you a book with any shipping option.
Demanding customers can expect to pay!$!$!
Or perhaps it's not service they want, but rather, a slave.
posted on May 16, 2001 11:06:05 PM new
uaru: Wow!! Thanks for the numbers. I had no idea so many sellers stated that in their auctions. I always figured that the people who will abuse the systems will do so anyhow and notes on payment speed in TOS will not stop them.
In going further down my email list, the buyer emailed an hour after payment was made to see if I had received it.
Maybe they have been burned one to many times or this is just how they deal with people
I like to be paid in any shape or form. Hwever I like mail payment because I know I have a couple days to pack up when I have some spare minutes and can be ready to ship the next day after payment arrives.
Online payment you never know when it will come through. I had 5 more payments come in today and I didn't get home until 10:00 PM so no chance to pack. (and no, I am too tired to pack breakables and keep everything straight).
Thur is garage sale day and my time again at the shop. So the only choice is to lose out on some great garage sale items to spend time packing and shipping. Which I will do because they have paid, and the expectation is 24 turnaround, but I feel somewhat like a hostage and I think only day 2. Ebay allows 3 days just to say hello.
As I am sitting here I am thinking, I wish the post office would reduce the rates for priority and let us ship using boxes which would be good for Priority, International or First Class. That way I could package up the items during the days of the auction and be ready to ship.
posted on May 17, 2001 09:47:35 AM newI had 18 winning auctions from Mon and Tue late evenings. Between sending the end of auction notices and sorting through the emails from buyers and paypal and billpoint payments, and packing up 7 packages I had to set a cutoff time as I had to get to the post office and then my shop.
It sounds as though you're not using any post-sale management software, which could make sending out all those emails a snap.
I could not have packaged the book rather than type because I did not have the supplies ready for non priority shipping.
Does this mean that you're offering Media Mail and you don't have the supplies to ship that way? If so, that is a big mistake.
I would like to package items before the auction ends but I ship international and with a choice of shipping, and 90 % of my auctions going priority, I can't package before auction ends. Although I would sure like to.
You don't necessarily have to package items before the auction ends to be efficient. Figure out what size boxes or mailers the majority of your items will fit in and get a ready supply on hand. I also ship international and this doesn't create any problems for me, so I'm not certain where you're coming from.
It sounds as though you're not prepared when you can't use the Priority supplies for the remaining 10% of your auctions. Get prepared and your packaging job will go a lot easier.
posted on May 17, 2001 06:40:47 PM new
BJGrolle: Thanks for the thoughts. If I keep selling at this rate I will have to look into the post sale stuff. It does take up time that could be spent packing or listing.
My mix of stuff is all different sizes and no two alike. I do keep a supply of the priority boxes that come in the most handy.
I currently live in a very tiny space and do not have room to store a variety of different boxes.
I'd still rather the post office reduce the rates and sell plain boxes at a cheap rate.
Then we would only need one type of box.
posted on May 19, 2001 10:36:12 PM new
Update: I shipped the book early in the morning on the 17th so 36 hours after auction ended and in keeping with my norm of shipping 99% of my auctions within 24 hours of payment (checks included).
Buyer received the book today, the 19th. Two day turnaround for media is excellent. Buyer left me glowing feedback. This is nothing new because, I provide excellent service and will if it's $4.99 or $499.
The following feedback statements are what I typically get,
"Smooth transaction; Great packaging; Fast shipping--Ebay as it should be! THANKS"
or
": great seller,fast service,well packaged,great to deal with Thank you AAAA++++"
I DO NOT state in my TOS or EOA note anything other than shipping dollar amount and method of payment.
Many Buyers are clearly unhappy with the service they are getting from Sellers and are feeling powerless to do anything about it. They still want to bid so they are sending messages like this,
"payment has been forwarded by billpoint....as with all my transactions....if item is not received within 14 days, expect negative feedback, otherwise...very positive feedback will be posted.....thank you...."
and the one in the other thread on Long feedback letter,
attempting to gain some control.
But what still irks me is the timing. I had shown this buyer that I was an excellent seller, by my almost 200 fantastic feedbacks professional listing, tos, eoa notice within hours, offering two shipping methods and quoting rates based on zip code within 3 hours of end of auction. So I was meeting every expectation you could have of a seller, Yet he sends me a blanket email after payment telling me his conditions for a neg.
It just felt like a bucket of cold water had been thrown on me. Is this not a mild form of blackmail? "if item is not received within 14 days, expect negative feedback"
If this was in my TOS, the buyer could read and say, no way am I bidding. Good - Bye
Thus it is not blackmail because the buyer has the option to not enter into the agreement. I didn't get that option. The auction closed with this buyer, they paid, and then send their condition.
So now time for me to leave feedback and I am hesitant about what to write.
posted on May 20, 2001 12:01:36 AM new
You don't need to write the feedback right away. Give yourself a few days of reflection before you post feedback. Have you written the buyer and told him how his email made you feel? If you haven't and don't want to, it might be best just to skip feedback and move on.
posted on May 20, 2001 04:43:26 AM newSo I was meeting every expectation you could have of a seller, Yet he sends me a blanket email after payment telling me his conditions for a neg.
Yes, it really sucks to be treated as a member of a class instead of an individual, doesn't it? And that's EXACLY how we bidders feel every time we see a hostile TOS or receive an EOA notice telling us that we WILL get negative feedback if this, that, or the other thing happens [or doesn't happen, as the case may be]. I've got over 400 feedback, all positive -- how DARE a seller treat me like I'm some zero feedback newbie or deadbeat bidder! I don't care HOW many times he has been burned in the past, I have earned the right to be treated with a little respect and as an individual, not just as "another potential deadbeat".
Of course, when you question a seller about this, you always get the same responses: "I've had some bad experiences and have to protect myself" and "I send these out to everyone -- it's nothing personal". So all I can say is that I'm sure this bidder has had some bad experiences, that he sends this out to everyone, and that it's nothing personal.
Descrimination sucks. And being on the receiving end of it doesn't justify descriminating against others. Maybe if you sent him a polite e-mail telling him how offended and upset you were, he'd stop sending out "blanket" e-mails like that. Or not. Either way, though, the transaction was successfully completed and you received glowing feedback for your effort. What type of feedback you leave, if any, is of course up to you. But I'd vote for a little sympathy and understanding here, personally.
Regards,
Barry
P.S. In case you're wondering, about 1/2 of my feedback is as a seller, so I really have been in both situations.
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
[ edited by godzillatemple on May 20, 2001 04:44 AM ]
posted on May 20, 2001 07:33:39 AM new
After a good nights sleep I realized that of course I must leave a Positive and words of "Super Fast Emails and Payment. Thank You."
AnonymousCoward: I think I will email the buyer after I post feedback and let him know how it made me feel. I'd like to mention your words as my philosphy on online auctions, but ultimately each seller and buyer have a right to operate under their own philosophy which might not match mine.
""A seller's first contact with a bidder should not contain threats of I'll do this or if you don't do that.
A buyer's first contact with a seller should not contain threats of I'll do this if you don't do that.
First contact should always be amicable, professionnal, respectfull and courteous. It's that simple.
Only and only if the actions or inactions of the other party makes you doubtfull of a positive conclusion should the tone be taken to another level. ""
godzillatemple: Thanks for your thoughts. I have only bought two items on ebay, so it is good to get an understanding of how buyers feel and what happens with other sellers.
When I look at other auctions if the TOS is long or threatens negs, I myself would not be inclined to bid. I would be upset if in the EOA notice there were sudden threats of negs.
When I take a check from a customer in my B&M I don't say "And this had better not bounce or else"
Ultimately how we react on any given day to the buyers or sellers depends on what has happened to us recently in our online and off line lives. Some times our threshhold to just laugh it off is not where it should be.
I maintain a professional appearance with my buyers, as I think most of the sellers on this board do, but the message boards are a good place to blow off some steam, and at the same time to get a good debate on both sides of the issues.
