posted on November 10, 2000 04:18:56 AM
I'd like to see some numbers regarding the double-punched ballots. Specifically, how many had double-punched Gore/Buchanan as opposed to any other combination.
This is just out of curiosity. If the ballot was illegal (no matter who approved it), then a re-vote needs to be done.
PS - Just heard Bob Dole on TV. I always thought well of him ... until now. Talk about coming across as 'holier-than-thou'.
posted on November 10, 2000 04:39:21 AMI'd like to see some numbers regarding the double-punched ballots. Specifically, how many had double-punched Gore/Buchanan as opposed to any other combination.
Good point, barbarake, although the odds of somebody wishing to vote for the first candidate on the list (Bush) mistakenly punching the second hole are probably somewhat less than somebody wishing to vote for candidate #2 (Gore) and punching the third hole, since in the first instance you've got a benchmark (there's no holes above the first one). So it's not quite the same. Anyway, like you I'd like to know.
I'm wondering about the risk the Gore team is taking on its statements regarding litigation - something others on the board have observed. Right now the team (led by Daley, who is acting at least as sanctimonious as Dole, and that's saying a lot!) are making quite a fuss about possible voter fraud, "illegal" ballots, etc. What would happen if the recount showed a Gore win? The idea of having to say "Whooops, our mistake. Everything was fine. Pay no attention to our earlier charges" is a hair-raising thought for me, at least. I think the safer road would have been to say "We're going to watch the process carefully and comment when it's done" - just SHUT UP FOR NOW and let the system do what it has to, as Bill O'Reilly (Fox news) has said. Thoughts?
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 10, 2000 04:43 AM ]
posted on November 10, 2000 05:54:26 AM
Well, I think that statement has a lot of merit, HCQ. Obviously, this election isn't going to be determined overnight as most all of our other one have been in the past. WITHOUT considering the Palm Beach brouhaha, the recount shows numbers so astonishingly close, that absolutely the absentee ballots will be needed to be counted. As for a revote, while I think there does need to be some redress to the Palm Beach ballot situation, a revote may not be the answer, given that, as others have pointed out, people who voted for Nader or Buchanan, or for that matter Bush or Gore, may not vote the same the second time around. So a revote would not necessarily recreate the original vote there. Another option that has been bandied about is that a judge would have the option, based upon statistical analysis presented, of overturning the numbers, and declaring Gore the winner. I think this the chance of this scenario is very very slim, but there is precedent for it. We must wait for the process to complete itself, however long it takes, knowing that the outcome may/will not be satisfactory to all of us, but that in the end, our system will work. If anything, I marvel that my kids are seeing history made here, perhaps never to be seen again in our lifetimes or theirs. As for all the "talking heads" on televisin, they are just doing what they are supposed to do, tow the Party line, whichever it may be. I'm sure that they get "brownie points" for it from TPTB in their respective parties.
posted on November 10, 2000 06:15:11 AM
Nj:
"If Gore pulls out the electoral vote and wins, then everything is okay with them."
When did the Gore camp say that?
The Bush camp is on record as saying if he won the popular, but not the electoral he WOULD seek legal action to ensure the people's choice was the President. So back atya - why isn't Bush giving the people what they want as he said he would do if the shoe was on the other foot?
posted on November 10, 2000 06:17:57 AMThe Bush camp is on record as saying if he won the popular, but not the electoral he WOULD seek legal action to ensure the people's choice was the President. So back atya - why isn't Bush giving the people what they want as he said he would do if the shoe was on the other foot?
Would you care to share this "record" with us? I'm sure it would be quite interesting to quite a few people.
posted on November 10, 2000 11:54:16 AM
Ok, here's one to think about for the people who think that abolishing the Electoral College is the way to go in the future (seems out of the question for this time - it's not a loophole to get around, it's how we do things according to the Constitution)...
say you rely strictly on the popular vote to elect a president. What happens when you have an election where the vote is this close (or within say, half a percent even)...wouldn't this require a recount of the entire country's votes?
Considering what a nightmare just Florida has been, what would happen if we had to look for every voter irregularity in every state????
Do you think that there are really that many states where there are not problems similar to Florida? Try Illinios - or Texas - or even Oregon where I am. Here, rather than what I'd consider to be deliberate fraud on the part of county elections folks, we have good old incompetance.
Nah, the more I watch this, the more I like the Electoral College sysytem.
Two more points. First, I think the media is getting out of hand with suggestions that we are not patient enough to deal with this. Clearly, the TV folks have a problem with patience, as they showed twice on election night by predicting who states went to (does it bug anyone else that they "declare" winners - it's rare to hear them say "predict" anymore). I'm not sure that the rest of us aren't willing to watch this play out - provided that it isn't tied up in court for six months.
And lastly, I agree that no matter what happens, there are going to be a lot of unhappy voters out there.
posted on November 10, 2000 01:04:05 PM
"
The Bush camp is on record as saying if he won the popular, but not the electoral he WOULD seek legal action to ensure the people's choice was the President. So back atya - why isn't Bush giving the people what they want as he said he would do if the shoe was on the other foot?
Would you care to share this "record" with us? I'm sure it would be quite interesting to quite a few people
"
- yes - where's that record?
Regardless, even if the quote is accurate, it just says he values the office more than his own or the nation's integrity.
Ok, here's one to think about for the people who think that abolishing the Electoral College is the way to go in the future (seems out of the question for this time - it's not a loophole to get around, it's how we do things according to the Constitution)... say you rely strictly on the popular vote to elect a president. What happens when you have an election where the vote is this close (or within say, half a percent even)...wouldn't this require a recount of the entire country's votes?
You make some good points in your post. IMO the recounts would not be that difficult to manage. They would take place simultaneously in each state and the entire process could be completed in a few days.
And I agree with you that voting irregularities probably happen in virtually every state. A better, modern system of voting and processing the votes needs to be developed to help curtail these problems in future elections.
Maybe something similar to the kiosks where you take the driver's exam. They could have the candidate's name, party, and photo along with a "Touch here to vote for this candidate" type of button".
posted on November 10, 2000 03:03:32 PM
boysmommy3...yes, I would also like the url to that quote from the Bush camp. I haven't seen that anywhere else. Everything I have read says that Bush would concede if he lost the electoral vote.
As far as the Gore camp, on a radio interview I heard Wednesday night, their spokeswoman (didn't get her name) said they had many options depending on the outcome of the recount. Now if they were going to press a lawsuit for irregularities, what would the outcome of the recount have to do with it? That says to me that if the recount went in their favor, they would just let it drop.
This is a quote from Gore: "Despite the fact that Joe Lieberman and I won the popular vote, under our Constitution, it is the winner of the Electoral College who will be our next president.
"Our Constitution is the whole foundation of our freedom, and it must be followed faithfully toward the true result ordained by the American people in our respective states. We are now, as we have been from the moment of our founding, a nation based on the rule of law."
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That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
