posted on May 22, 2001 06:12:19 AM new
Even though I just started a different thread relating to a pet peeve I have about feedback, I have to admit, some people are JUST OBSESSED with the whole FEEDBACK GAME!!!
Ebay must LOVE this! Here you have tons of users who would practically buy anything, JUST to get feedback!! They even cater to it by "rewarding" users with different color stars based on how many points you get!
Ironically, as any mathematician can attest, there is a point (statistically) of diminishing returns--MEANING that after a certain point in feedback, say after about 400 transactions, the pattern of behavior has been established and piling on more feedback points serves almost NO PURPOSE!
Granted, there are exceptions, for example when certain users inexplicably go bad(!), but other than that, it really is useless after a certain point.
It reminds me of when people go to a carnival and spend $50 throwing baseballs at a target to win a $4.00 stuffed bear!
It's so funny to read about users fretting over the fact that not every buyer/seller leaves feedback! Forget whether or not the transaction netted a profit--or someone found something they've been looking for for 20 years---the FEEDBACK is the IMPORTANT thing--it's all-consuming!! People try to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get every last crumb of feedback they can! It's so funny...because after a certain point...it is MEANINGLESS!!
I'm sure people will come up with 100 reasons why feedback #1347 is so useful, but it isn't! It's MEANINGLESS!!
posted on May 22, 2001 06:26:44 AM new
I agree. I have a few over 500 feedbacks, no neutrals and no negatives. It would suit me OK if I didn't get any more. I don't ask for a feedback, but get them anyway. The way I see it if the bidders couldn't see that I was reliable with 100 feedbacks they couldn't with 500. I would like it if feedbacks expired at the end of a year.
If feedbacks expired at the end of a year, people would be EVEN MORE OBSESSED with them!!
Let people leave feedbacks to their hearts content. I just don't see what drives this obsession after you already have several hundred---or even a thousand!
I believe my carnival analogy really applies here.
posted on May 22, 2001 07:09:44 AM new
Yes, tea, good analogy!
BUT, if you knock the bottle down like you're supposed to, you won the $4 bear, not a roll of used toilet paper. (unwarranted neg).
I don't need the silly bear to add to my collection, keep it if you like or I'll take it as a bonus. I never requested the used TP.
I'm not "obsessed" with FB, I would, however, like to earn my negs like I have earned my praise.
JMHO
only ZOOMIN here
posted on May 22, 2001 07:26:58 AM new
Why is it that the people who wonder why others are obsessed all have FB in the hundreds or thousands? You have no reason to concern yourself with feedback anymore, but someone like me, who has made 18 purchases and has a feedback rating of four would like to get out of single digits. I'm not obsessed, it just would be nice to get over the hump. I've never had a bid canceled due to low FB, but I have had to pass on auctions in which the seller required a rating of 10 or more.
posted on May 22, 2001 08:09:42 AM new
Obsession is my favorite perfume.
What we seem to have are groups at either end of the spectrum.
The Feedback Means Nothing group which either feel the feedback system is so flawed that the feedback numbers don't have much use or don't feel feedback is that big a deal in the overall picture or don't feel they need constantly glowing feedback to define their self worth (aka If you want to be Loved, Buy a Puppy scenario).
The Feedback Means Everything group is at the opposite end. Even the slightest "hint" of a negative or neutral can ruin their day & they feel even a single negative can mean their spouse won't ever make love to them again, they'll be pariahs in the community and their dog will bite them at every opportunity.
I suspect most of us fall somewhere in the middle ground between these 2 opposing camps.
posted on May 22, 2001 08:27:54 AM new
IMO it's the nature of the beast (eBay)....I was eBay reared (sp?) in the "feedback was everything" school...& have risen to the point where I now belong to the "more feedback would be nice, but it's not everything" group....I can remember looking forward to each new star, and celebrating it's arrival, so I can understand those who feel that way...
Feedback was an major component of eBay...It was the report card by which we could judge those we were dealing with...in as much as it has dimished in importance, it is still used daily at eBay:
"Check my feedback to see how satisfied other buys have been"
"No checks accepted from buyers with a feedback under 10"
"Checks will be held for clearance on bidders with under 25 feedbacks"
"No bidders with 0 feedback"
"Bidders who do not complete the transaction WILL be given negative feedback"
and on and on and on....
It is a part of eBay and will remain that way, even if statistically it doesn't mean much...
BTW, I could retire if only I had all the money that I spent tryin' to win the BIG prizes at the carnivals!
~ Rancher
posted on May 22, 2001 08:28:02 AM new
I liked getting my yellow star.
I liked getting my blue star.
I loved getting my purple star.
I'll be thrilled if I ever get my red star.
What's the problem?
[ edited by marble on May 22, 2001 08:28 AM ]
posted on May 22, 2001 08:28:12 AM new
As long as eBay's policy remains the way it is (feedback is not required as part of the transaction), I'm afraid the Feedback Means Everything group is just going to have to accept that they are going to be disappointed in a certain percentage of their transactions.
posted on May 22, 2001 08:40:45 AM new
I've got a question, and would like to hear your opinions....
You want to buy a widget. Your options for buying that widget are 1) eBay seller with a feedback rating of 350 (349 pos, 1 neg), positives read "great item, good care in shipping", "Wonderful transaction, would deal with again" etc.Neg reads "never contacted me, BAD seller...OR 2) ittybittyauctions.com which does not have a feedback rating system. Item/price/shipping/insurance etc EXACTLY the same at each site. Where would your buy your widget???
Again, same widget. Variables: Seller A - 689 feedbacks (685 pos, 2 neutral, 2 negs) VS Seller B - 24 feedbacks (all positive) Description/pix/item/price/shipping/insurance etc EXACTLY the same.From whom would you buy your widget??
Edited to Clarify: Auctions end at the same time. No Bin options available. Item cost is $200.
~ Rancher
[ edited by rancher24 on May 22, 2001 09:13 AM ]
posted on May 22, 2001 08:56:14 AM new
From the founder:
February 26, 1996
I launched eBay's AuctionWeb on Labor Day, 1995. Since then, this site has become more popular than I ever expected, and I began to realize that this was indeed a grand experiment in Internet commerce.
By creating an open market that encourages honest dealings, I hope to make it easier to conduct business with strangers over the net.
Most people are honest. And they mean well. Some people go out of their way to make things right. I've heard great stories about the honesty of people here. But some
people are dishonest. Or deceptive. This is true here, in the newsgroups, in the classifieds, and right next door. It's a fact of life.
But here, those people can't hide. We'll drive them away. Protect others from them. This grand hope depends on your active participation. Become a registered user.
Use our feedback forum. Give praise where it is due; make complaints where appropriate.
For the past six months, I've been developing this system single-handedly, in my spare time. Along the way, I've dealt with complaints among participants. But those
complaints have amounted to only a handful. We've had close to 10,000 auctions since opening. And only a few dozen complaints.
Now, we have an open forum. Use it. Make your complaints in the open. Better yet, give your praise in the open. Let everyone know what a joy it was to deal with someone.
Above all, conduct yourself in a professional manner. Deal with others the way you would have them deal with you. Remember that you are usually dealing with individuals, just like yourself. Subject to making mistakes. Well-meaning, but wrong on occassion. That's
just human. We can live with that. We can deal with that. We can still make deals with that.
Thanks for participating. Good luck, and good business!
posted on May 22, 2001 08:56:51 AM new
It wouldn't matter to me. I would probably bid on the second one I looked at, once I realized that both items were identical. No point going back to the first one.
Since I generally look through the listings top to bottom, the answer to your question would then be... the item listed lower on the page.
posted on May 22, 2001 08:58:27 AM new
Okay, I'll play.
I'd buy from Seller 1 in the first case & Seller A in the second.
Reasons?
First, I prefer to buy from sellers with a bit of experience under their belt. Personal quirk..I also don't buy cars in the first year they are introduced nor buy software until they are past the initial "buggy" stage. Their lone neg doesn't bother me..it happens.
In the case of Seller B, unless their negs are of a recent trend or show something seriously bad (like responding with LIAR, FOOL, TRAILER TRASH), then the negs, again, don't bother me.
I might watch Seller B to see how they come along but I tend to go w/experienced sellers when I can.
BUT, all that said, I don't consider myself the "typical" ebay buyer. Having been around a few years & being a seller myself, I probably look at things more closely than the average buyer.
I consider the "average" buyer someone more like my sister..who gets on ebay every couple of months, sees something she wants, most of the time doesn't check the seller feedback or really closely read the TOS. Then, if she gets into a problem, emails me for help.
Sometimes I think we assume ebay buyers are sophisticated & "informed" consumers. I'm not so sure that's the case here.
posted on May 22, 2001 09:03:14 AM new
Okay- I just realized you are asking about two different situations. In order to be perfectly clear, what is the cost of the item in question? $2? $20? $200? This answer would make a difference to me.
posted on May 22, 2001 09:12:22 AM new
reddeer... hope to make it easier to conduct business with strangers over the net. That's what feedback helps me do.....
eventer Then, if she gets into a problem, emails me for help. and what is one of the first questions you ask her??....I know when my friends ask for help on purchasing an item on eBay, I always have them check feedback (or do it for them myself).....Even my kids know not to look for something they want (typicall VERY trendy, which in my mind is perfect territory for scammers) from a buyer with 0 or very low feedback....
mrpotatoheadd...That answer would have to be $200. On $2 or $20 risk would be minimal.
posted on May 22, 2001 09:22:14 AM new
Seller 1 in the first case. In the second, I would buy from either one, assuming that the feedback for both was from previous sales of like items.
typicall VERY trendy, which in my mind is perfect territory for scammers
The items I buy are definitely not trendy, so I believe the risk of scammers is minimal, at best.
Unfortunately, she tends to bid first, ask questions later. And this is a person who researches EVERYTHING to death. But there's something about the "urgency" about an ebay auction that tends to make people who are anal about everything else totally lose sight of reality.
And when some of my customers have shared their problems..many of them have done the same thing.
They got SOOOOO excited at seeing something they wanted, they bid..then later they read the TOS or look at the feedback. By then, it's often too late.
posted on May 22, 2001 10:28:27 AM new
Actually, I think the question posed does have something to do with how buyers might/might not use the seller's feedback to determine whether or not they want to buy, which further might illustrate that the feedback or lack of might explain why some might consider it more important than others.
Not to say that it's an OBSESSION, though, but it's on-topic IMO.
As for my answer, I'd buy from Seller 1 in the first example. In the second example it would depend on the nature of the negs and neutrals. If they implied that Seller A was difficult and unreasonable, then I'd buy from Seller B.
FYI, I just had to file a NPBA on a buyer who has feedback of over 400 (many from buying and this person has paid for recent auctions also, but not mine ) and her negs indicate that s/he mispresents items when selling. So a high number doesn't necessarily indicate a stellar seller/buyer any more than a low number means the opposite. The personal comments behind the number can be very important.
Oh, and what's the obsession with all these new users who have registered within the last couple of days who continue to start thread after thread, and get upset whenever someone posts a contrary opinion? To the point of requesting moderators to delete posts they don't like?
Come on, I think basically we all try to get along here and when we don't it usually blows over.
First of all, welcome to AuctionWatch.com. As a new user, I suggest you read the user agreement and review the Community Guidelines before you continue posting.There are certain rules and regulations to follow in the community and everyone is subject to them.
Moderation issues are not to be addressed on the boards. You can email the moderator at [email protected].
posted on May 22, 2001 11:38:46 AM new
I always thought ebay was clever to come up with the stars. I wonder how many people buy and sell more than they normally would just to get that next star faster. I've never put any worth into the stars.
I wonder why people leave positive feedback for a user with 100+. Is there really any new to say that hasn't been said already?
posted on May 22, 2001 11:50:22 AM new
Eventer:
>>>a single negative can mean their spouse won't ever make love to them again<<<
PIMP!!!
I would say that's a good reason for feedback OBSESSION!!
*running to clean up the coffee you made me spew all over the screen*
"Actually, I think the question posed does have something to do with how buyers might/might not use the seller's feedback to determine whether or not they want to buy, which further might illustrate that the feedback or lack of might explain why some might consider it more important than others."
"Not to say that it's an OBSESSION, though, but it's on-topic IMO."
You ARE kidding?
This line of conversation has NOTHING to do with what I was discussing, nothing at all.
I am addressing the obsession people have with piling on more and more and more feedback---FAR MORE than is reasonably used in making an educated decision about whether or not to do business with someone.
What YOU are refering to has to do with picking the lesser of 2 evils in evaluating 2 different sellers--CLEARLY a DIFFERENT subject altogether.
Please do not continue to confuse the issue and this discussion, especially considering you could start innumerable threads to your hearts content.
posted on May 22, 2001 12:59:19 PM newWhat's with the feedback OBSESSION??
Sounds like a few experienced eBayers have taken the time to try explaining it to you, even citing a situational example. Quite nice of them, IMO. Every one of them responded regarding feedback. So you ask that their posts be deleted and reply with arrogance.
What's the point of this thread if not to get feedback regarding feedback?
Trolling or just cranky today???????????????
posted on May 22, 2001 01:07:25 PM new
tea4u...my apologies if you feel I disrupted your thread...Your thread asked "what's with the feedback Obsession??"....My examples were posted to bring to light the point that feedback is not a game. People may argue who should leave it first, how many actually mean anything, or it matters at all, BUT the fact remains that a purchase is to be made, feedback is factored in the equation of who to buy from. And the higher/more positive the feedback the greater the chances that seller will "win" the bid....
On the reverse, many sellers are hesitant to deal with bidders who's feedback is low. Some stated minimum feedback numbers in their TOS, some even cancel bids from those who are low feedbackers.
Sure, lots of folks have been around awhile & have accumulated feedbacks from when it was all the rage. But what about the newer sellers & buyers?...How are they to establish their eBay credibility (which I, for one, believe that feedback does) if the practice of leaving feedback becomes simply a bonus and not actually part of the transaction??
