posted on August 2, 2000 08:20:34 PM new
I recieved 5 emails from Yahoo saying I was spamming on certain auctions? I have no idea why I was reported. I use auctionwatch. I never have had a problem before- I posted negative feedback on a bidder that never paid- and now all of a sudden this is happening within a few days after. Can anyone tell me why this would occur? I do believe I also posted a paypal banner- but I dont think it was for the auctions that were reported. I don't get it. I'm new at this- any help would be appreciated!
posted on August 2, 2000 09:21:34 PM new
Most of us think of spam as unsolicited emails. Yahoos definition of "spamming" auctions is having more than one ad for an identical item running at the same time. I don't load through AW but on Yahoos submit item page there is a reminder in red at the bottom saying no more than one listing for the same thing is allowed.
Yahoo has nothing against Paypal banners, that is not a problem unless we are talking another the other kind of spam which is an ad with no item for sale. Some people try to load an ad that ONLY has their Paypal banner & says click here to earn $5.00. That is not an auction therefore it is definitely not allowed.
posted on August 2, 2000 10:04:31 PM new
Just one quick related question- does Yahoo consider it "spam" if you have a title that says something like
Mossimo t-shirt, like Roxy, Quiksilver, Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren
?
I once got a "keyword spam" warning from Ebay about a listing of mine that contained a brand name that was "like" the brand of what I was auctioning, but my item wasn't actually that brand name. (My title was nowhere near as obnoxious as the title in my example though.)
Until I got that warning, I never even knew it wasn't allowed on Ebay since every time I shop for clothes on Ebay I see tons of titles like that.
posted on August 2, 2000 10:50:22 PM new
I just looked at your listings Meowmeeoow and you have so many duplicates. That is the problem. Y! sent you warning letters hoping you will fix it yourself but if you don't Yahoo will likely delete ALL of your ads for you. I doubt it's a past customer, to get a letter from NW means at least 3 different people complained about it.
CAgrrl,
I know eBay doesn't allow keyword spamming because bidders complain "when I'm looking for XX brand ads this stuff that's NOT it comes up and wastes my time sifting through all the search results." I don't actually know what Yahoos rule is.
[ edited by kasmoon on Aug 2, 2000 10:51 PM ]
posted on August 3, 2000 12:08:49 PM new
That is right, it is because of the duplicate listings and it takes at 3 different people "neighborhood watching" your auctions to receive a warning letter...but you are lucky! If only 1 person takes the time to e-mail Yahoo about your auctions rather than using neighborhood watch, they will shut down all of your auctions with no warning!
posted on August 3, 2000 12:52:44 PM new
I just wanted to explain to Yahoo newbies that the reason yahoo does this is a good one. When buyers search and select load
"show pictures" they do not want to wait while 50 copies of the same widget load, only to click "next 50" and see 50 more of
the same and so on and so forth.
I routinely turn people in when I see this because it gunks the site up and costs me sales. Considering "spamming a category"
akin to plastering your ad all over a RL bulletin board covering everyone else's. It is rude and disrectful to both buyers and
other sellers.
posted on August 5, 2000 09:21:06 PM new
My understanding is that if you have more than one identical item that you want to sell, you're supposed to use a dutch format to list the items all in one place, to avoid cluttering up the site.
I think you could realistically get away with having identical items listed in different categories (one dutch or single auction per category that is) IF the items could logically be placed in either category (like Borillar's jewelry that could be under either sterling silver of gemstones, for example.) But to CYA you should probably change the titles around a little so that the listings weren't exactly identical.
posted on August 5, 2000 09:50:31 PM new
MacandJan
The rule is only ONE identical item per seller can be run at a time. If you'd like to try the first bids wins method of listing so popular at Yahoo you can load your next one as soon as the first closes. The only other option is a Dutch ad which is not really popular because it is a confusing format. You could risk trying doubles but I wouldn't be surprised if it backfired. Bidders might not be irritated enough to NW you but a competing seller is likely to turn you in & get all your ads deleted for violating terms.
posted on August 10, 2000 10:10:53 AM new
Hello - I'm back to annoy some people. Refer to my diatribe, I sent to Yahoo's "Customer Care" attached below.
Kasmoon - you're half right. There is no RULE. I market my trading cards the way I want to. If I have 2, or 10 sets, I'll list 'em individually if I want to. My customers should have a choice.
CAgrrl - That's called "title SPAMMING". It's kind of like "category SPAMMING" which is what Kasmoon is STILL trying to figure out. AND Dutch Auctions are simply too confusing to buyers and sellers alike.
VeryModern - You're being a crybaby about LEGITIMATE competetion.
If you want to push the issue, I'll add some kind of a trading card to my listing to make it different, forget the "lot 1" and "lot 2" approach!
Follows, my e-mail to Yahoo.....
Hello:
You absolutely must define more specifically what constitutes a SPAM auction listing. I have received around 100 (SPAM) e-mail messages from Yahoo because the people using your "Neighborhood Watch" feature don't have a clear idea what SPAM listings are! My listings are legitimate.
I have multiple items to sell with the same title. Dutch Auctions confuse bidders and sellers alike. I want my customers to have a choice. I want my customers to bid, confident they won't get into a "bidding war" over an item which interests them, when I have more than one of the same item. Listing two of the same card sets, with the same title, as card set lot 1 and card set lot 2, is a sound marketing strategy.
I have multiple items signed by an artist, with the same title, which are not the same, because the signatures are different. Maybe a customer prefers a particular type of signature. The customer can't choose if the items are listed together in a Dutch Auction. I simply don't like Dutch Auctions.
Here are my proposed SPAM definitions:
1.) A “garbage” listing of no true merit used to take advantage of promotional events. One or more of the following might be used in a SPAM listing: a junk title such as “ad;lkhjhgds”, no true description or a junk description such as “asd;lkj sd;lf kep’ opi4e ;l.,d fnoi.”, and a bogus dollar value for the opening bid.
2.) A “joke” listing for example, “The Slightly Used Soul of a Sixteen Year-Old Girl”, “One Pound of Acapulco Gold”, the supposed underwear of any public figure, any human body part, etc.
3.) Using different “Keywords” in the listing title so the auction shows up when a search is done for a category. Example title: Amazing Spider-Man #1 Pottery Clothing Jewelry Camera
4.) Listing an item to advertise another auction site
5.) Listing an item to lure bidders to another website or webpage.
6.) Listing the same item under many different categories.
A quote from Yahoo’s “Bilk Loader SPAM Policy:
“The Auctions Express Bulk Loader is a tool designed to make it easier to post multiple auctions. It should not be used to post the same item throughout Yahoo! Auctions, even if that item pertains to more than one category. Multiple listings of the same item (also known as "spam" are not allowed in Yahoo! Auctions. Yahoo! defines spam as "more than one listing of the same item by the same seller," so please choose only one category per item. Items listed in categories to which they don't pertain are also considered spam.
Auctions with the same or very similar titles could potentially be perceived as spam. Please be sure that users can differentiate between your auctions by their titles. …and it goes on.
And another thing, I don't think the "K-Neighborhood K-Watch Klan" would be as happy to use their trigger fingers if their IDs were reported to the seller along with their question about the SPAM auction. It should be. A person has the RIGHT to face the accusers. Now, these people get to hide behind their masks of anonymity and point blame without fear of repercussion. As a seller I should be provided the opportunity to defend my position and educate the poor benighted fools who have nothing better to do than hassle me.
My customers don't complain about being confused with the multiple listings with the same title - the only differentiation being my use of the lot1, lot 2, etc. SOME EVEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!! I've seen people bid on, and win, a "lot 3" item, confident they would win that item! I've had others bid on, and win, a "lot 5" item!
The ones complaining need to be educated. Leave me, my listings, and my customers alone! The complainers aren't my customers. They are busy-body snoopers with nothing but time on their hands and nothing better to do but bother me by filling my inbox up with SPAM e-mails notifying me of their ignorance.
posted on August 10, 2000 10:20:34 AM new
hawkwand - if I load 50 images and they are all the same and they are all yours, I will NW you in 2 seconds. If has nothing to do with competition, it has to do with degrading the site.
As to your dictating to Yahoo what they need to do, you are sorely mixed up. It is their site - and so they will be running the show.
This is a bit like living in Daddy's house for free. If you don't like the rules - move out and then you will be free to make your own.
posted on August 10, 2000 10:30:16 AM new
hawkwand - You claim that Yahoo users NW your auctions as spam because they don't know what spam is. In the quote you posted, it states "Yahoo! defines spam as "more than one listing of the same item by the same seller" which is exactly what you said you are doing. Therefore, according to Yahoo's rules, which you agreed to abide by when you signed up, YOU ARE SPAMMING!
posted on August 10, 2000 11:26:36 AM new
VeryModern - I use the same image for ease of loading. Go look at my X-Men Cards listings. And what are we talking about, "...degrading the site..."? Are we talking aesthetics here? THAT'S a waste of time....I "suggested/commented" to Yahoo they educate dopes who don't know SPAM from shinola. Yahoo needs to educate the users what SPAM is. If they do that then they won't have to monkey-fuddle with people who don't REALLY know what SPAM is! I am a daddy the real answer is to kick 'em out and send 'em to the military!
Auctionee - "more than one listing of the SAME ITEM by the same seller" Duh! I'm listing multiple items with the same title, not the SAME ITEM!!! Duh!
None of you knows what SPAMMING is! Refer back to my definitions. Think deeply. Don't just skim the surface.
Besides, if the NW Nazis keep it up, I'll simply add one of the MANY extra trading cards to my multiple listings to each one VERY different. I refuse to use the confusing Dutch Auction feature.
posted on August 10, 2000 11:55:11 AM new
Thanks Mod! You have brought tears of gratitude to my eyes. It's encouraging that at least ONE person out there is reasonable, rational, and logical. I truly appreciate your response!
posted on August 10, 2000 12:04:57 PM new
You are quite welcome.
It is obvious that you provide formidable competition in your area and so they're on you. Very unfair, and I would not be
surprised if the people turning you in were well aware that you were within guidelines, but opting to cause you problems
anyway.
posted on August 10, 2000 12:14:44 PM new
hawk - I just had a thought..
I betcha that their are only a handful of Yahoo staff dealing with NW, maybe even ONE. It seems to me that you will continue
to be harassed until you can manage to get on a "list" of sellers who are repeatedly turned in without cause so that future
complaints will be automatically ignored by the staff.
Consider that the person on the receiving end is drowning in mail all day, and I would suggest writing a very short explanation
of the problem, and "respectfully REQUEST" that future complaints be round filed.
Leave out the part about what they NEED to do and anything else that may incite, and you just might get this solved.
posted on August 10, 2000 12:23:46 PM new
Y'know, I mistakenly listed an adult comic, with the word "adult in the title, in the regular category once and it was automatically ended by Yahoo.
Yahoo has taken no action at all with the hundred-or-so listings that have been reported. They must think, as do you, I'm being targeted.
Thanks for the "NEED" vs "REQUEST" point-of-view, too! If one gets too close to a problem, it's time to take a breath, and consider the big picture. I had not even considered the handfull, or ONE employee, drowning in e-mails!
posted on August 10, 2000 02:41:23 PM new
I just looked at your 1st page Hawkwand. The first items using Lot 1, 2 etc are for a Xena figure. I see no difference in the any of the 4 figures. There was a debate about this at the Y! Seller Zone several months ago showing how it can be confusing according to an individuals interpretation. It sounds like you are saying they are not the "same" item in that if you had 4 winners you would have 4 items to send. On the other hand they are the "same" because there is no difference in them visually. Everyone argued each point & then we wrote Yahoo for clarification. Yahoo said no matter what quantity you have to sell, you can only list one open ad at a time for identical items. Your 4 Xenas are identical therefore 3 of them are spam according to what Yahoo told the 600+ members of SZ.
As I said at the top of this thread, I looked at Meowmeeoows ads and she had at least 20 exact ads per identical item. Today she has one ad per item. Meowmeeoow, please tell us what answer you got from Yahoo.
posted on August 10, 2000 02:51:38 PM new
Hawkwand - Forgive me if I misunderstood what you meant, but you said "Listing two of the same card sets, with the same title, as card set lot 1 and card set lot 2, is a sound marketing strategy". That is exactly what Yahoo has decided is spamming. I'm not saying that their definition is right or wrong, or you are right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that what you said is what Yahoo defines as spamming.
posted on August 10, 2000 06:30:45 PM new
Kas - Then let Yahoo publish the policy statement somewhere. I can't find it. Refer to my "Bulk Listing" quote from Yahoo's auction site above! I don't need ignorant crybabies (who elected THEM to be the police, anyway?) complaining about my listings and I don't think Yahoo does either. Review my correspondences with Mod.
Auctionee - I do not list the same item in multiple categories. Yahoo has nothing anywhere about listing two items. Just listing the same item multiple times. I've looked. I don't know how you've come to this conclusion. Where is it written? Or is this simply your interpretation? "Moses, so shall it be done!" Yahoo needs to be clear on this.
My customers don't have any problem figuring it out! I have multiples of the same item and choose not to use the Dutch Auction feature. They bid on whatever lot they prefer and everybody is happy. Why all this crap from the popcorn gallery?
In the meantime, leave us alone! My customers seem to be able to figure it out! I said it before and I'll say it again: If this keeps up, I'll add random trading cards to the listing to keep the auctions "different." How's that? Put that in yer pipe and smoke it.
By the way, I wish all sellers the best of wishes. I try to keep it fun. Sometimes I just need a shoulder to cry on. I don't mean to beat anybody up! Happy trading, people!
posted on August 10, 2000 11:01:37 PM new
VeryModern, go look at his listings AGAIN.
hawkwand,
At the bottom of Yahoo Auction's "Submitting an item" page, it says in red letters:
"Please post only one listing in only one category for a given item."
YOU are interpreting "for a given item" to mean "for every single item I have to sell" and YAHOO means "for every UNIQUE item".
According to kasmoon, "Yahoo said no matter what quantity you have to sell, you can only list one open ad at a time for identical items." You have 2, 3 and 4 IDENTICAL items up for auction at the same time, designated as "Lot 1", "Lot 2", "Lot 3" and "Lot 4", and Yahoo considers that SPAMMING, which is against their rules.
When I viewed your current listings as "Show only photos", I saw 2 identical Amazing Spiderman comics for $18 each, 28 identical lots of multiples, 3 identical, 3 identical, 5 identical, 4 identical, 3 identical, 4, 6, 6, 6, 5, 4, 4, 5, 3, 2, 6, 6, 6, 6, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 2, 4, 2, 3, 4, 4, 6, 6, 6, 3, 3, 3, 8, 5, 5, 2, 4, 2, 4, 5, 3, 4, 3, all identical photos of different lots, most all with the same price for identical listings. You have MANY LISTINGS of 3 and 4 IDENTICAL ITEMS, further complicated by the use of the same photographs for as many as 8 different listings.
THAT'S WHY you're being turned in to NW, not because there are "busy-body snoopers with nothing but time on their hands and nothing better to do but bother" you!!!!
You stated, "My customers don't complain about being confused with the multiple listings with the same title."
SO WHAT?????????
Your customers "being confused" doesn't have anything to do with it. Yahoo doesn't want THEIR auction flooded with a seller's duplicate listings of new, readily-available (as opposed to antique, one-of-a-kind) merchandise, and THEY set up the rules, NOT YOU. So abide by their rules or go pay to list all your multiples on ebay, where they'll be more than happy to charge you listing fees and commission on everything you sell, and you can list as many duplicates as you want.
You said, "The ones complaining need to be educated."
You're wrong there. YOU are the one who needs to be educated. You also need to be taught some manners.
posted on August 11, 2000 12:53:53 AM new
granee, I loved your post! Everything you said is absolutely correct.
Hawkwand,
In one of your post you stated, "Yahoo has taken no action at all with the hundred-or-so listings that have been reported. They must think, as do you, I'm being targeted." I wouldn't bet on that just yet. Your auctions must be reviewed and then Yahoo will decide what action to take.
You seem to be taking this very personally. I don't think YOU have been targeted, but your auctions have been recognized for what they are SPAM! It's an easy concept to grasp if put like this, if you happen to have a warehouse full of 100,000 identical Computers and you list "each" one separately, your are running SPAM Auctions! Period, change the 100,000 count to any number over 1 you want to... and anything over and above that 1 is spam. It doesn't matter if it's just 2 or 3. Spam is spam.
So while you're thumping your chest and raving about "other" peoples ignorance, consider this, sellers who persist in continuing to list spam auctions actually do LOSE their accounts (as well as any feedback rating they might happen to have) if they are reported to Yahoo repeatedly. If you stop spamming, you won't be reported. See how simple it all is???
posted on August 11, 2000 01:06:47 PM new
My daughter thinks this is all a big joke. She says if I get so aggravated to just stop. This used to be fun. Trading in comics and cards isn't like selling quilts or depression-era glass. ]
What difference does it make if one guy is selling 10 comics or ten guys are selling 1?
How come when I'm on eBay I hear a busy market and when I'm on Yahoo I hear crickets?
posted on August 11, 2000 02:43:51 PM new
hawkwant,
This is NOT a big joke. The more SPAM duplicates there are by sellers, the bigger the categories needlessly become, the MORE DIFFICULT it is for buyers to find what they want to purchase, and the more DISCOURAGED buyers become with Yahoo Auction.
If the "search" or "category listings" page buyers pull up has little but DUPLICATES of the same thing over and over and over again, it becomes too much trouble to wait for pages to load and to find what they're looking for, and they'll go elsewhere to look.
You asked, "What difference does it make if one guy is selling 10 comics or ten guys are selling 1?"
PLENTY.
If 10 guys are selling one IDENTICAL comic, the chances are much, much greater that the buyer will have a CHOICE of the condition, the price, the terms of sale, and the person being dealt with, than if one guy sells 10 IDENTICAL comics.
Trading in comics and cards on Yahoo is EXACTLY like selling quilts and depression-era glass. If I have 8 matching depression glasses to sell, I can either sell them in a dutch auction for $ each OR sell them by the SET at 8 for $ total, OR sell ONE AT A TIME for $ each and say "7 more available at $ each".
If you have identical comics IN DIFFERING CONDITION GRADES and differing PRICES, Yahoo allows you to list them as separate auctions (because their conditions make them NOT identical). If my 8 depression glasses all have different damage and different prices, Yahoo allows me to list them separately(again because they're not truly identical with differing damage).
And if my depression glasses all have different damage, I must show a different photograph on each listing that ACCURATELY REPRESENTS the one being sold on that particular listing. NOT A GENERIC PHOTOGRAPH that may or may not represent what I'm selling on that listing.
You snidely stated, "How come when I'm on eBay I hear a busy market and when I'm on Yahoo I hear crickets?"
Then why don't you go sell on EBAY instead???????????????????
posted on August 12, 2000 12:40:09 PM new
The way everyone is reacting to my listings IS the joke! Aren't we all being extravigant in expressing our opinions? My, my! This was merely an exercise in food-for-thought.
Go look at my signed Chaos Purgatory comics... Lot 1, Lot 2, and Lot 3, all the same, right? I've provided one generic photo of the same generic comic. Superficially, to the untrained eye, they might all look the same. However, each one has a different autograph at the bottom-center of the book.
Are these listings spam? I think not!
Any seller attaching images to a listing knows the length of time involved. I photograph or scan multiple images to save time. Then I reference that scan in my listing. NOW we're defining "image spamming"?!!! Where's it gonna end? Think before pulling the Neighborhood Watch-Nazi trigger-finger. Do you know, REALLY, what you're looking at?!!! ARE YOU QUALIFIED TO PULL THE TRIGGER?
And I DO take it personally! Being ganged-up on by a bunch of NWNazis who don't know what they are even looking at - because their eyes ARE untrained - IS personal - there's nothing professional about it....
Again, this is just a hobby. I am not a true business person. I think Yahoo! Auctions MUST have a greater selection of more items. That's why I hear the crickets! No selection, no customers!
granee - It is hawkwand not "want."
Nothing in your argument is logical. For example: "If 10 guys are selling one IDENTICAL comic, the chances are much, much greater that the buyer will have a CHOICE of the condition, the price, the terms of sale, and the person being dealt with, than if one guy sells 10 IDENTICAL comics." If the comic is identical, what is the choice of condition? Price - doubtful everyone knows what the comic is worth. Terms of sale - what's wrong with PayPal, cash, check, or M.O.? And as for the guy being dealt with refer to my feedback.
Quilts - by nature - are one-of-a-kind.
I list my comics with the photo and "lot #" designation in the title to differentiate between them. It doesn't have to be in the description alone, the differences may be in the title. Why get stuck on the condition and price as the differing factor? Why is the different signature not sufficient?
The entire argument, against which I've been presented to defend my position, is irrational, illogical, and unreasonable.
And as for eGreed - it sucks, when it's not blowing. I'm perfectly happy here. Leave me and mine alone!
are not allowed in Yahoo! Auctions. Yahoo! defines spam as "more than one listing of the same item by the same seller," so please choose only one category per item. Items listed in categories to which they don't pertain are also considered spam.