posted on June 10, 2001 09:02:58 AM
Here's the story. My husband is the last in line to generations of antiques. We have no one to leave them to, and do not want/need them ourselves.
Items like wash pitchers and bowls, tons of crystal, dish sets from the late 1800's, silver sets, tea sets, old pictures and frames and just a bunch of old stuff.
I am wanting to find out what it is worth, actually worth. Obviously I am not going to go to the one of many antique dealers in town. Is there anyone that just estimates the value, that has no interest in buying? And how would I find one? Are they certified?
So many times I read on this board from the same dealers that they had a "steal", because the owner of the items didn't make an effort to find out what the real value was.
posted on June 10, 2001 09:10:20 AM
Find an appraiser and tell them you are not interested in selling anything, just need appraisal for estate/insurance purposes.
If you have a good auction house in the area, they can recommend an appraiser.
I also watched Primetime. That is just sad that antique/collectibles "professionals" flat out lie to innocent people seeking their advice. This story just prooved again to me what a greedy world we live in. God bless those honest sellers out there...they make this industry look great!!
posted on June 14, 2001 08:21:41 PM
Yes, there was that one guy that told her to go to Christies, I wish I got his name!
I am sure there are honest dealers, but when so many of the other kind are highlighted it leaves a bad feeling of distaste and distrust in "customers" minds.
I want to say that there is nothing wrong with making a profit. The time and studying it takes to know what antiques are worth should account for something. But at what point does profit become greed become stealing?
At the risk of sounding gauche, when you get ready to list the wash pitcher & bowls and the tea sets, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] with the auction numbers. I'm going to do a little redecorating around here. (No, I haven't told hubby yet. Better not to disturb the dear.)
No problem! I have saved your email. Although I don't know for sure what I am going to do to sell yet. I guess I really have to work on someone to estimate for us.
I plan on contacting a few of the local auction houses like was suggested for an appraiser.
Ask me what a horse is worth. Ask my husband what a car, truck, gun or guitar is worth, but tea sets??
~Not barrelracer on ebay, don't pick on them!~
posted on June 14, 2001 08:51:57 PM
Trying again .. typed whole post then got error message!
IF you decide to sell to dealers you might want to try what my sister and I did 10 years ago when we had items left from my grandmother's estate that neither of us wanted to keep.
We put a small (removable) sticker with a number on the bottom of each item for sale. Made an inventory list of course. Then we 'invited' local dealers to come and view the items and leave a list with the item number(s) and the price (for each) they were willing to pay (sort of a sealed bid I guess). Did it all in one afternoon. Spent the next day determining who made highest offer on what and sold each item to dealer who made highest offer.
The dealers did NOT like this method (for obvious reaons). Many stated they wouldn't buy that way. However, most showed up and did buy. Very little was left unsold. So .. if it's the only way to get their foot in the door, they'll play!
Just a thought!
Edited for numerous typos!
[ edited by tuition44years on Jun 14, 2001 08:55 PM ]
posted on June 14, 2001 09:14:31 PM
I have one thought for you, too, along these lines. I have a friend who went to "appraisers' school" or whatever they called it in I think Texas (we're in Utah). She is now the only certified appraiser in the state and is very proud of her credentials. I think there is such a thing as a certified appraisers network, state by state--and if there is, you should be able to connect with them through the internet (I'd start with Google.com but there are many other places to look).
And of course the big rule has always been, never sell to the person who appraises your item!
I have a diamond ring in platinum, inherited, and I'm going to get an appraisal from one "good" jeweler who's been here forever, then have the work done by the premier jeweler in the state, first letting them see my appraisal. (I've always been worried about jewelers perhaps switching stones.)
I also think the above suggestion, about inviting dealers to make offers, is a really good one and I'm going to remember it! ~Adele
posted on June 14, 2001 09:27:30 PM
Barrelracer .. One more word of advice .. don't be intimidated!! If the dealers in your area are like the ones I dealt with here, expect them to treat you like you have a significantly substandard IQ when you tell them what you are doing. They may stick their noses in the air even!
However, if you just say something like "No problem, just wanted to offer you the opportunity to look at what I have!" then head for the door, they may stop you and 'deign' to accept your invitation or even call you the next day (have a card or a slip of paper with your name and number to hand over when you approach them)!
posted on June 15, 2001 12:19:06 AM
barrelracer,
Have you considered PAYING SOMEONE for this 'advice' or do you expect it for free.
Would it be be 'honest' of you to advice those whose time you take in seeking an oppinion that you don't want them to make 1c?
In defence of antiques dealers I would like to point out that most of the profesional ones make great bonuses by identifying mistakes made by the 'great auction houses'.
I know I have.
If you're offended by my comments, So was I by your tittle.
posted on June 15, 2001 01:11:45 AM
And if you are wanting prices that an antique dealer would sell an item for, rent a space in a shop. Pay the rent and commission.
Either you are wanting to be an antique dealer yourself, or you are wanting to sell your stuff to dealers who are not going to pay what you might consider the "worth" of an item. And it is a waste of time for dealers to come and do an appraisal for nothing for you. If you want an appraisal, you need to pay for it.
Then you need to decide whether you are an antique dealer that can command a retail price. Or are you someone who wants to get rid of surplus items.
Why is it okay for sellers in this forum to get their good deals at garage sales and thrift shops, but not for an antique dealer to also get a good deal from those same sellers.
posted on June 15, 2001 01:47:38 AM
If you want an appraisal have a written inventory and take pictures of everything and ask for a signed, dated, WRITTEN appraisal and expect to pay a fee. Make it clear at the start that this is not a veiled request for a bid to buy. Make clear you want a retail price fixed and if it is for your region or national. If they want to tell you how much of a discount dealers are likely to ask fine. That is seperate.
Not many are stupid enough to give you a durable document if they are not qualified to make it or if they know they may be brought to task later for conflict of interest or malpractice.
Of course I am going to have to pay for an honest appraisal. What a silly question!
I wouldn't mind paying an for an honest appraisal.
If you read my posts you will see I understand about the time and education it takes to learn about antiques. I have no desire to learn about them, I just do not want to get ripped off when I sell them.
And selling to a reseller is different than if I sold to a collector.
luculent If you read my posts you will see I am looking for an appraisal on my items and reaally do not want to go to a dealer for it if possible to avoid it.
Also there is a huge difference to me between a dealer buying something at a garage sale that has a price on it (it is up to the seller to know what something is worth) and a person taking it into a shop to get an appraisal, where there is a certain amount of trust in that person for the dealer to "do the right thing" and give an honest appraisal. Like their signs say!
Also, you are just not understanding, these are not surplus, but one of a kind family things.
I am wanting to know what they are worth before approaching a dealer or doing anything about them.
It makes me laugh, there are several antique dealers on these boards that always say If the seller doesn't want to take the time or money to find the actual worth of an item I don't feel any guilt buying it for their asking price.
Now here I am trying to find out how to do that and some just can't understand that either!
posted on June 15, 2001 05:12:58 AM
Barellracer -- Boy, thats a tough one. I'm not sure about the rest of the country but in the area where I live you would be hard-pressed to find an antique appraiser who does not buy & sell as well. unlike property appraisers, etc., a good deal of the information an appraiser of such items is learned through the buy & sell process, aka "the market".
I am an idependant jewelry appraiser, and appraising is my only business. Funny thing is that only about 15% of my business is from private individuals looking to get appraisals for insurance or selling purposes. Most of my business is to the trade. Auction houses, attorneys, jewelers, etc. "tuition44years" had an excellent suggestion and it is one I have used in the past.
Make an inventory list of your items and then invite 3 or 4 buyers to come and bid on the items. With jewelry we usually ask them to bid on the entire lot. This way the "choice" pieces are not snapped up and you are left with the undesirable pieces. They have to take the good with the bad. The dealers know how much they can sell each item for and will adjust their bid accordingly. If you live in a large enough city you may want to consider an auction house. They will give you a range of estimate (you may choose to have a reserve on choice pieces)and the commision to the house is usually 20-25% It is in the house's best interest to get as much as they can at auction because all of their profit comes from commision of the sale.
posted on June 15, 2001 06:27:04 AM
If you want an honest, unbiased, appraisal, contact your insurance company or an attorney that specializes in estates and ask for referrals to appraisers who are in the business of appraising estates but whom DO NOT BUY. They will of course charge a fee as they are professionals just like an attorney, doctor, accountant, plumber, carpenter, etc. and they need to be reimbursed for their time and knowledge.
I would not trust the value given by a local auction house, estate sale person or an antique dealer unless they are qualified and certified to sign an insurance type document for the value which they won’t because that is not the business they are in.
Auction Houses, Antique Dealers, Ebay Sellers, Estate Sale Companies are in the business of liquidating estates and individual items. Value, Wholesale Cost and Retail Cost are quite different.
If someone comes into my shop with an item and wants an appraisal I tell them what I said in the above paragraph.
If they want to sell the item, I tell them what I would pay for it. That is different than the value of the item. I also tell them the various ways they can sell the item or items to get a more true retail value. Go to the local flea market and rent a space for 12.00, or rent a booth at a mall, or rent space at the next antique show. For value research the item at the library, ebay, etc. etc.. When dealers are buying they always are thinking of their customers base and that determines the price I will pay. It is up to the seller to decide if they want to accept the offered price.
If you invite the antique dealers to bid, or to get estimates, please be honest with them up front and let them know the process you are going through, so they can decide if they want to participate. It is dishonest to lure dealers into your house by telling them you want to sell if what you are looking for is an appraisal.
Sounds like you have some very nice rare items and are aware of the pitfalls. Good Luck.
posted on June 15, 2001 06:47:13 AM
geminspector,
Yes it is in the auctioneer's interest to get as much as possible for an item at his/her auction (assuming he's not giving one of his mates a quick hammer or buying it himself).
BUT generally speaking, the auctioneer would rather see it get UNDER$old and make something rather than have it go back to the vendor to go on seeking a 'fair' price.
Please do not make auctioneers out to be benevolent benefactors; their interests are NOT NECESSARILY aligned to those of the vendor.
I am a self-interested dealer and I admit it.
I find it amazing that people are stupid enough to believe an auctioneer when told they're acting in the vendor's interest, and yet view the dealer with nothing but distrust and contempt.
However, I must agree with tuition44years, a tendering process will begrudgingly bring the competitive element out in dealers.
Do not assume a collector will pay more- I know school teachers and unemployed people that are collectors and I know they can't afford to pay 'honest' prices for valuable items.
I have been dealing for almost 14 years and am yet to meet a valuer that doesn't sell, but several that 'claim' not too. Or perhaps they are 'collectors'. Will that be any consolation to you knowing that your 'valuable, under$old' item won't be resold?
geminspector,
I'm a bit confused, being that appraising is your "only business", can you explain how that involves asking people "to bid on the entire lot" It sounds like selling.
posted on June 15, 2001 06:52:10 AM
My husband is currently looking into going to "appraisal school" this fall--however, he is interested in the agricultural end of it (livestock, equipment, etc.) However, through our research into the course, we've found out what being a professional appraiser entails. An appraiser's fee is upwards of $25 an hour--as they do a lot of research, etc. on your items. Professional appraisers are much in demand in areas such as lawsuits, divorces (who gets the antique tea set, and what is it worth?) bank loans (using your antiques as collateral) insurance companies (I could have sold that horse for a million dollars!) etc. I would suggest that rather than contact antique dealers or auction houses in your area (who may have an interest in your items,) contact the banks and insurance companies. Many times they are required to have professional appraisals done and they'd know who to contact.
posted on June 15, 2001 07:04:42 AM
Yeah, get one of those antique appraiser auctioneer doods, who can accurately value French Impressionists, Gem Stones, Chinese porcelain, Japanese Blades, Coins, Roman Antiquities, Dutch Masters, German Toys, Stamps, Documents, Glass, Silver, Cameras, Watches, etc, etc. Don't forget to curtsy, I would if I met such a man.
1. Many states have no licensing for appraisers, and any one calling themselves an antique dealer can also call themselves an appraiser! Many and in our area most, have absolutely no knowledge of what they are evaluating, and place ridiculous prices on items, which wouldn't sell at such a price anywhere.
2. We have many folks come to our shop who watch the TV antique road shows, and have a like item and actually think someone is going to pray the usual ridiculous prices that the road show people appraise at.
3. We also have people come in for appraisals which we do not do, but they bring the item in; it is lovely, but not unusual and they want a fortune for it, because it was Grannie's. Note, no one will pay for your sentimental attachment AND we have folks who bring their antiques in who wish to sell them, but they want retail from a dealer - that won't happen, realize if you sell to a dealer, you can't get full value for the item as the dealer has to have a margin of profit to work with.
4. REGARDLESS of what a book or appraiser tells us, the bottom line on anything is: What the market will bear, nothing more and nothing less.
5. This is NOT a good time to sell, wait till fall. Do a study/search on eBay and other better auctions to see what items like yours are selling for. You'll get a better idea of value than what any appraiser can/will tell you. You will learn what the market will pay, and that is the issue (now I am saying what the market will pay, that is if you are selling your items on line).
IF you are selling locally, remember that prices vary GREATLY depending on location. We sell items in our shop that northern, and dealers from the Southwest purchase from us at retail, and take back to their shops and easily double the price on. So if you don't sell your items on the internet, your prices will have to be adjusted for your own area.
posted on June 15, 2001 09:02:11 AM
Some Tips From the Experts:
Hire an appraiser. "You cannot afford not to have your item appraised," says Fendelman. Though appraisers' fees range from $75 to $350 an hour, she says, hiring one will still be worth your while.
Select an appraiser with expertise in the particular area you need, suggests Fendelman, and never hire an appraiser who also wants to buy your item. "Wise consumers directly ask an appraiser about his area of strength before divulging the type of items to be appraised," says Fendelman.
If you decide not to hire an appraiser, do your homework! "Read books, go to museums and antiques shows," says Fendelman.
If you're going to sell through a dealer, try to find a few who specialize in your type of object. [See Web links at right.] Try to get bids from at least three dealers.
Consider giving your item to a dealer on consignment. The consigner typically receives 60 to 80 percent of the selling price. If you sell to a dealer outright, expect to receive about 50 percent of the retail value.
Ask the dealer what your item is worth — not what he or she would pay.
Refrain from desperate or disinterested language such as, "I have to sell this," or "I want to get rid of this."
posted on June 15, 2001 09:03:52 AM
George Pickett inherited the belongings of his great-great grandfather, General George Pickett, famous for leading the ill-fated "Pickett's Charge" at the Battle of Gettysburg.
He sold some of his family heirlooms to an antiques firm for $88,000, thinking he was getting a fair deal. Later, he learned the firm, owned by noted dealers Russ Pritchard and George Juno, had sold those same antiques to a museum for $880,000 — 10 times what they'd paid Pickett.
"I felt foolish, like I'd really been taken for a fool," Pickett tells PrimeTime correspondent Chris Wallace. A civil jury found Pritchard and his company had committed fraud and awarded Pickett $800,000.
posted on June 15, 2001 09:47:57 AM
There is lots of good advice being given here. I have sold antiques and collectibles for many years but I do not do appraisals even though I am always getting requests. Antiques are not my main business and I do not specialize so I do not consider myself knowledgeable enough.
As a buyer I sometimes like the "sealed bid" approach. There are many aggressive dealers in my area and sometimes by the time we are called over all the good stuff has gone and the owners are whining that other dealers have now informed them that they would have paid them more. Each time I have participated in the "sealed bid" sale I have managed to buy most of the items that I have bid on. And I have still made a profit that I am happy with.
Dealers always seem to get a bad rap but remember that there are many "underground" dealers also. They buy and sell but do not have an actual store. Anyone who buys for resale can be considered a dealer.
I watched the show last night. The items that Primetime sold were not the average items that most people find in their homes. Even though the dealers did "rip them off" they may have sat on the item for a longer time or sold it for less if Primetime hadn't bought it back so fast. Their profit margin would have still been "out of sight" so no, it wasn't fair. But this was shown for TV ratings also.
I think it is the responsibility of the owner to do lots of research before selling. Do your best job of comparing prices of similar items and also try to find out the reputation of the dealers and auction houses. Not always an easy job.
posted on June 15, 2001 02:25:17 PM
appraisalday could not be too big of a site if they have to stoop to spamming boards.
I am an appraiser and the first thing I tell everyone is "If you have to think about it, don't sell it." The second thing is "Do not sell to the appraiser."
In my state of California only real estate and gemstone appraisers are required to be licensed. Virtually anyone can call themselves an antiques appraiser no matter what their expirience or training they have.
Buy some general antiques books like Shroeders or Kovel's and do some research on ebay. Ask around for the name of a good honest appraiser and be prepared to pay from $50 - $400 an hour for the service. It is very tough to figure out market value for such a wide variety of items.
posted on June 15, 2001 04:08:09 PM
I love this type thread.
The last time we got called in to make a bid on a "pile" we gave 'em the sky hook. the owners were quite smug and let everyone know that they 'were not going to be taken, and would only sell to the highest bidder'. Of course, they expected to get these "appraisals" for free, not only that but they wanted each item valued seperately.
So.....as 3 of us knew each other, we cooked up a scheme. We all put really, really, REALLY high prices on the stuff....and made sure that only q of us would have the highest value on the load. It took 2 weeks, but when the gleeful Seller called, not only did they tell us that we were "miles" above the prices of the others, but that they had decided to keep the "cherry" the jewel of the load. [yeah thats not the first time that that has happened].
But....imagine their surprise, chagrin and downright DISMAY when we, then the 2 others that played along with us said that NO.....we had re-considered and were not interested. Not...not even a little bit. the word had also gotten around, the pile was now tainted....and they ebded up having to put it in storage. Served 'em right.
If you are so concerned [and not incorrectly so] stop worrying about each and every piece.......locate the best auction house for THE PILE in your region and let them do their job. The check that you receive will be far more than you could get by yourself and in a much shorter period of time.
posted on June 15, 2001 05:01:03 PM
Everyone has certainly given me a lot to think about and good advice, thank you very much!
I think I will start by inquiring at the bank and insurance co to see about an appraiser, just to get ideas. I know an appraiser might get expensive, but I feel I can recover the costs eventually.
The auction house idea sounds interesting also, except the few we have around here I don't think are very experienced with antiques. Usually the auctions around here are for whole households or farm/ranch implements.
