Eventer
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posted on August 6, 2001 02:33:39 PM
So ebay has added to the rules on surcharges, very interesting! Especially the part which says if you charge a handling fee, it must be stated in the auction.
New policy:
Can a seller add a surcharge to the final price of an eBay item? Yes, in three instances.
Sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fee to the final price of their item, providing that this fee is disclosed up front in the listing. A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. Shipping and handling fees cannot be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.
Sellers may pass along the costs associated with using a third party escrow service, if the buyer chooses to use an escrow service.
Sellers may choose to accept payment in a different currency than the currency listed on eBay. If the buyer chooses to take advantage of this optional payment method, the seller may pass along to the buyer any costs associated with the currency exchange, provided that the costs are disclosed and agreed to in advance by the buyer.
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NothingYouNeed
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posted on August 6, 2001 02:44:06 PM
At first reading, I want to shout out "HOORAY". I have always felt that it should be mandatory to list shipping charges (or at least "actual postage plus $x handling fee) in the auction description.
But I am curious now...does this mean that all those sellers who say nothing more than "buyer pays shipping" are now going to have to list at least the handling fees, if any, in the listing? I would say the majority of sellers I buy from don't list any shipping or handling charge in the description but many tell you about it in the winning bidder notification.
This ought to be interesting....
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
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MrsSantaClaus
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posted on August 6, 2001 02:50:56 PM
Some people could loosely decide this pertains to surcharges for PayPal, right?
"costs associated with currency exchange"
perhaps meaning internet currency to real world currency"
I do not charge for Paypal, but this might make things interesting ...
BECKY
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Eventer
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posted on August 6, 2001 02:57:17 PM
Some people could loosely decide this pertains to surcharges for PayPal, right?
MrsSC,
The only way I see to make THAT leap of logic is to be posting over in the Drunk Ebayers thread! 
BYN,
Since it's written in typical "ebayese", really hard to tell if they mean you have to state, "$3.25 shipping and handling" or if you have to state "$2.50 shipping and $.75 handling".
"Disclosure" is probably the bigger issue. So long as you've "disclosed" you have a handling fee in some form, you'll be safe even if it's not delineated out. BUT, I'll send a message to SH & see if I can get a ruling (in this century).
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capotasto
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posted on August 6, 2001 03:06:07 PM
"Sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fee to the final price of their item, providing that THIS FEE is disclosed up front in the listing. " (emphasis added)
Eventer has raised a good question. The ignoranti at ebay has done it again with their dumbspeak.
"Winner pays actual postage PLUS s/h of $3.00"
Or... "Winner pays $5.00 shipping..."
??
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dman3
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posted on August 6, 2001 03:07:51 PM
Fixed shipping is still allowed so breaking things up I can see being nessary as long as the total is in the listing..
I only use Fixed shipping total and the method which the item will be shipped Priority , Frist class ECT..
The person reading the listing gets a fair Idea of what shipping will be.....
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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cdnbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 03:36:47 PM
eventer
I saw this rule when I read the listing rules today. It didn't register that it was new. But then I'm sitting on the shores of Lake Huron drink in hand, laptop on lap, surfing for fun instead of occasional profit.
(You were supposed to send a little rain, not this ridiculously hot, humid weather. You'd think this was Houston!)
In any event, looks like this new surcharge policy has been in place for 10 days. My guess is that any reasonable attempt to disclose surcharge fees will be fine, at least until eBay figures out what they mean by surcharge fees and what they mean by disclosure.
I also see that eBay has made my listings 'legal' again by allowing more than one link to a 'me' page. Thanks eBay.
Bill
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Triggerfish
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posted on August 6, 2001 04:16:49 PM
I didn't get any pertinance to 'paypal' or such types of services when it mentioned surcharge for "escrow services". What i understood was that, if the seller accepts an escrow service (i.e. iescrow) then he/she could pass on the charge. Nothing new about that.
Or, I could be wrong...
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Eventer
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posted on August 6, 2001 04:44:41 PM
Bill,
Sounds like you might be joining the drunk ebayers thread pretty soon. 
Sorry, TRYING to pass the rain on up to you! We got less than predicted (mercifully) and THIS time we weren't sleeping in a tent when the storm passed over us!
Guess I don't get that promised cool Canadian air until I send the rain, huh?
I've sent an EM to SH asking about a clarification on the wording but it appears to be the first attempt to stop some of the "Oh, by the way, there's a $15.00 handling fee" EOA surprises.
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sparkz
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posted on August 6, 2001 04:46:00 PM
Could this in any way be construed to preclude a seller from attempting to collect the bank fee for a bounced check?
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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smw
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posted on August 6, 2001 05:52:09 PM
Looks to me to be an accommodation to the big corporate sellers eBay now has like JC Penney and the others it is courting.
This change makes it official that they can charge handling fees. Now if anyone complains eBay can say whatever they want is "reasonable".
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cdnbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 06:27:58 PM
eventer
It will be interesting to see what SH has to say.
Looks like the standard eBay implementation. Drop a bombshell and then deal with the fallout. A heck of a lot easier on them than thinking through an issue.
Sparkz makes a good point. Return check fees are clearly caught by this policy. And it is just as clear that this is an undesirable and unintended result.
Bill
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kiawok
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posted on August 6, 2001 06:32:31 PM
I believe smw hit the nail on the head.
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cdnbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 06:36:49 PM
kiawok
don't be silly. eBay is trying to protect its small buyers from unscrupulous small sellers. The big boy sellers are clean.
Bill
[ edited by cdnbooks on Aug 6, 2001 06:43 PM ]
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kiawok
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posted on August 6, 2001 06:39:57 PM
Oh
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cdnbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 06:44:14 PM
....glad to see that I convinced you!!!!
Bill
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oldapostle
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posted on August 6, 2001 08:01:36 PM
Eventer:
You want our cool Canadian Air.
It was 91 degrees here today.
Suppose to be 93 tomorrow.
cdnbooks:
I just spent a week in Muskoka.
It is real hard getting back to work after that.
Take Care
G.W.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on August 6, 2001 08:09:03 PM
Since it's written in typical "ebayese"
That's so, no matter what answer their customer service people give, they will be able to figure a way to justify it.
If the rules are clear, they lose the ability to interpret them with any flexibilty.
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booksbooksbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 09:22:43 PM
Nothingyouneed -- My interpretation would be that the seller must disclose the existence of the s/h charge, but not (unfortunately) how much it will be.
Interestingly, there is no mention of insurance, the cost of which is (roughly) a percentage of the final bid amount. So I guess sellers are now prohibited from charging for insurance. (I think)
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Microbes
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posted on August 6, 2001 09:30:06 PM
Wonder what this does to people that check the []actual shipping box, and don't include any other shipping info, but then charge more than postage.
I've seen lots of claims on this board that "actual shipping" and "actual postage" are not the same. (and can see the argument on both sides)
Never used that box my self, I don't want any misunderstandings.
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kittykittykitty
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posted on August 6, 2001 10:39:15 PM
but it appears to be the first attempt to stop some of the "Oh, by the way, there's a $15.00 handling fee" EOA surprises.
this looks to me like the most reasonable explanation. and that's how i'm going to take it unless i learn differentwise
kittyx3
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booksbooksbooks
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posted on August 6, 2001 10:43:59 PM
I used to argue that "actual shipping" equals "actual postage", but eBay has made it clear that it doesn't.
As best I can tell, "actual shipping" is the amount the seller actually charges, and fixed shipping is frequently broken. The terms are meaningless.
I'd love to see sellers required to state, for at least one shipping method to locations in their home country, either:
(1) Actual postage/UPS charge only
(2) A total dollar amount for S&H
(3) Postage plus a dollar amount for handling
(4) Postage plus a percentage for handling
(5) Some other formula that the buyer can use to calculate shipping
No more guesswork; no more e-mailing the seller to ask.
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smw
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posted on August 6, 2001 10:52:41 PM
Any change that eBay makes is based on one, and only one imperative: to increase the bottom line. eBay wouldn't officially sanction handling charges unless it is in their best interest to do so, which means more revenue. Follow the money.
I would love to have some Canadian air right about now since it is 1:45 AM 88F and the humidity is 92%. The heat index is forecast as being more than 100F up to 107F until Friday.
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kittykittykitty
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posted on August 6, 2001 11:01:56 PM
Any change that eBay makes is based on one, and only one imperative: to increase the bottom line.
i don't necessarily disagree with you. but sellers charging large handling amounts, not stated up front in the listing, is fee avoidance and makes for less people coming back to ebay and buying.
[i]eBay wouldn't officially sanction handling charges unless it is in their best interest to do so, which means more revenue.[i/]
i don't read this as sanctioning handling charges, just dealing with the fact that many sellers now do add on handling charges.
kittyx3
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NothingYouNeed
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posted on August 6, 2001 11:25:04 PM
I'll admit to not being overly familiar with eBay rules so am not as versed in "eBayese" as some of you.
Speaking practically (and I realize rules and practicality often have nothing to do with one another) a seller simply admitting in his description that he charges a handling fee doesn't represent sufficient "disclosure" to me, as a buyer. Disclosure means telling me up front what the handling charge is.
Stating a total fixed shipping amount is OK because I know what the shipping charge will be in advance without having to email the seller. If I took the time to email every seller who doesn't list his shipping and handling fees in descriptions, I wouldn't have time to do anything else.
I really don't run into what I would consider unreasonable handling fees very often. I think most sellers that don't mention the shipping or handling amounts in a description do so because they don't bother to figure out what it will be before the item actually sells, not out of some evil plan to trick buyers. This might prompt some of them to do the shipping cost thing up front, and that's not a bad thing (from the buyer's perspective anyway).
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
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kiara
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posted on August 6, 2001 11:34:57 PM
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, eventer. I am wondering how ebay will reply to you.
It would be interesting to know how many complaints ebay gets daily from customers who have been ripped off on shipping and handling and from others that never bothered to read the auction description or the ones surprised with surcharges.
What is "reasonable" anyhow? How will ebay or anyone else ever figure that one out?
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NothingYouNeed
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posted on August 6, 2001 11:39:23 PM
Good point, kiara. I would wager right now that eBay's threshold for reasonableness will be higher than the majority of handling charges being applied now, which won't end "handling charge whining" which, as you point out, happens even when the charge is posted in the description.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
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Eventer
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posted on August 7, 2001 06:04:39 AM
Place your bets, place your bets now (please avoid posting in states where prohibited by law).
Here's what I asked SH:
I use the wording "$2.50 shipping/handling" in my auctions. Will this be sufficient to meet the policy or do I have to change it to read, "$2.00 postage and $.50 handling"?
They've not responded yet but I'll gladly entertain speculation as to which they will choose & what they will reply!
edited to make the ubb behave
[ edited by Eventer on Aug 7, 2001 06:23 AM ]
now I can't spell...where the H@#$ is my coffee cup?
[ edited by Eventer on Aug 7, 2001 06:24 AM ]
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cdnbooks
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posted on August 8, 2001 02:33:33 AM
So, what did those prompt-responding folk at SH have to say?
Bill
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Eventer
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posted on August 8, 2001 05:44:02 AM
Not a peep from them yet, Bill. Odd, they've never taken this long to respond. Must be having trouble getting through to the 1-900 number to Miss Cleo.
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