posted on October 3, 2001 05:40:13 AM new
My biggest concern is the BP vs. PP issue.
We are a PayPal verified merchant.
I believe most buyers prefer them because it costs the seller, not the buyer.
(a quick search of ebay will prove that fact)
I don't blame ebay for only accepting Billpoint, it is in THEIR best interest after all, it's just that I cannot/willnot participate for that reason. If ebay's intent was strickly for charity, they would have figured out a way to accept PayPal also.
By only accepting Billpoint, they have just made it clear that this is designed to steer people to BP, period.
That's fine, I can deal with that.
If ebay added PayPal as a payment method I would list A4A items. The shipping issue does not concern me, I would pay that also.
(our items are easy to ship anyway)
Don't get me wrong, I love ebay as it has been a great way to sell lots of items for us and we have made a very heathly amount of cash doing so.
I do not, however, agree with all that they do.
This is just the place that we vent about it.
And I am very happy to be an American here or anywhere else as there is no better place to be! (on earth, antway)
posted on October 3, 2001 05:53:39 AM new
Yesterday I posted here wondering what influence this new announcment would have on A4A listings. I didn't know if the numbers would go up or continue to spiral downward as they have been doing daily since A4A's inception.
I checked today and the current number of Auction for America listings is at 19,799. Yesterday there was 20,521. A decrease of 722 listing which could be from some auctions closing. No matter how you take these numbers there certainly hasn’t been a surge in listings because of the shipping reimbursement.
posted on October 3, 2001 06:14:46 AM new
I think that once the first lawsuit is filed by one or more of the survivors of the TWC bombings, the AFA listings will decrease dramatically. The lawyers have so far been pretty successful in stalling, but sooner or later human nature will take over and the suits will begin. Then more people will start asking the questions that should be asked. How much is enough? How much more worthwhile were the people killed in the WTC bombings than the other several hundred people who died in obscure, not noteworthy places and events on that very same day?
I'm giving what money I can spare to those near me who experienced the death of a loved one but were not showcased on CNN, NBC and Oprah. The people who won't have free college tuition for their children. The ones who won't be able to sue for millions of dollars, despite being given millions of dollars collected by charities.
Why do so many of you feel the WTC victims deserve more than people in your home town or your state who lost loved ones through no fault of their own? How many of you who gave your money now also gave when the father of 3 died in the car accident on the way to work last year? Did his death not mean as much to his wife and children? Were they not as emotionally and financially devastated by the loss?
posted on October 3, 2001 06:15:54 AM new
Will posting an A4A auction or 2 draw bidders in to look at your other auctions? I figure if eBay continues to be self-serving with the A4A BillPoint ploy, why not take advantage of eBay as they continue to take advantage of us?
posted on October 3, 2001 06:30:49 AM new
eSeller004,
In my instance, almost 80% of my AFA items ended w/bids and several of the bidders bought items from my non-AFA sales (including my storefront) as well.
My "normal" sales usually include about a 25% repeat customer rate but my AFA auctions had a 15% repeat customer rate, so it appeared to be drawing in some new customers.
It appeared to be a good mix of newbies & ebay veterans.
posted on October 3, 2001 06:38:16 AM new
Eventer,
Thanks for the insight! Sounds like it might have some effectiveness although there seems to be a real malaise in the entire auction community right now. What'll it take to break out of this funk?
posted on October 3, 2001 06:47:22 AM new
eSeller004,
This almost 50 brain is trying to recall last year at this time. Seems to me there were numerous threads about how slow things were (especially around the back-to-school timeframe) when people were allocating their money elsewhere.
Bidding picked up heavily during the late Oct/Nov timeframe.
Personally, bids were VERY slow in coming over the past 2 weeks until last weekend, when I was pleasantly surprised at the end results. Not happy dancing, but enough to keep moving forward.
I think the key is to hang in there until the holiday shopping gets moving. Yes, there will be people shopping because, especially in times of crisis, the holidays take on an even bigger significance for family/friends.
People may not spend as much this year (my crystal ball is down for repair) but they will buy.
posted on October 3, 2001 07:27:12 AM new
Hooray! This is great news and they deserve credit for attempting to fix it, whatever their motivations are.
They are half way there. Now all they have to do is accept credit cards payments for AFA (which they are perfectly capable of doing, they charge my CC every month and I have never signed up for Billpoint. Paypal? well given that they are the competition I can see why it may be a bitter pill however since their stated interest is the charity they should hold their nose and do it.
Once the Billpoint fiasco has been dealt with I will start listing for the AFA immediately.
posted on October 3, 2001 07:45:40 AM new
<<<I am glad you are such a small group or I would feel like leaving the country. >>>
Some people just never let the facts interfere with inuuendo or ag ood story. There are currently about 6 million auctions running on eBay. About 18,800 are AFA. That's less than 1/3 of 1%. Put another way, over 99.67% of auctions on eBay are non-AFA.
"Small group"????
posted on October 3, 2001 07:57:49 AM new
Lanefamily,
It's a shame that you're projecting how people feel about A4A onto how they feel about helping others.
Real concerns here and on other posts have been addressed:
-Billpoint only: did eBay do this only to promote their payment service?
-Shipping issue: some couldn't afford it - this has been resolved
-United Way - one of the LEAST effective organizations to give to if you want your donation to actually go to those in need.
-eBay promoting eBay and movie stars on tv, while never thanking small sellers.
Many of the posters of these concerns mentioned they'd given much to Red Cross, etc. People give what they can, and should never be coerced into giving because it's the charity du jour.
Reading these posts doesn't make me ashamed to be an American on AW, it makes me ashamed to be an eBayer.
posted on October 3, 2001 09:22:11 AM new
One of the things I found attractive about these auctions as a buyer was the free shipping. It certainly would have an impact on me buying, I wonder if others will feel that way too.
Exactly! If they can charge my credit card for the FVF's they can charge my credit card for the whole auction, less shipping cost, and be done with it.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have to sign up for Billpoint I would have already donated a few auctions.
monkeysuit:
I see what you mean. Charity starts at home.
I suspect that most of those exce's had alot of insurance. Oh, and anyone who was at work, workers compensation will have to pay up. If injured or killed on the job, regardless of who's fault, workers comp has to pay up.
I think giving is a good idea, but I also am realistic. Much of this money will go to such things as Exceutive salaries, office rent, and financial fees and some vague community education program that doesn't help any family member directly.
I think there should be rules like:
Pay off some mortgages
pay off car loans
monthly financial support just to live
Free counseling
funeral expenses
Free Education for single parents who now have to go to work.
These should be based on need. In other words if your insurance company is going to pay you substantially more than your current debts then you don't need asstance.
Or something more simple.
Take all the money and devide it by the number of families who had a death or a major injury and send out checks equally.
posted on October 3, 2001 10:30:31 AM new
glass wrote:
I suspect that most of those exce's had alot of insurance. Oh, and anyone who was at work, workers compensation will have to pay up. If injured or killed on the job, regardless of who's fault, workers comp has to pay up.
***********************8
What percentage do you think are exec's? Do you think all of those in their late 20's and early 30's were anything more than "workers"? Thousands were not exec's..some were cleaners, shop workers, and young men/women being trained and poorly paid. How much do you think workers comp pays to survivors?
Some have left children (when both parents worked there), pregnant wifes, and I'm sure all have bills. Some were fireman, policeman..and in NYC they are never paid enough. Some children were never picked up from daycare, since both parents worked in the WTC.As best as the funds can be handled, I would hope, that those that need it, are those who will get what eBay sellers and others are giving.
I'm proud that our governor offered free college educations to anyone who is a member of an immediate family of a person that was killed in WTC, since this was a terriorist act against our country. And this offer is no matter where you live (lots of people lived in NJ, CT as well as Upstate NY). I pray that all of the families that were affected get a piece of the pie (eBay's or anyone else's that have given). I hope and pray we don't start thinking these families aren't entitled to whatever they get. This was an awful thing to happen. Do I think any one of these dead people were more important than someone killed in an accident not connected to WTC/PA/Pentagon? No, but that doesn't make this any less of a horrific thing to happen.
By the way, yes, charity does have a place right in your hometown..and I'm seeing more of that too. For the first time in years, our local hospital has enough blood to give. Our food pantrys are stocked, and people are becoming increasing aware of needs. This is happening in all of the places that were hit on that horrific day, and all over the country.
Of course no one has to give, that is a private matter. If you would rather give locally, there are lots of places that would welcome your help.
A4A is totally volunteer..in a country that gives us choices.
I think we're missing the big picture. There are a lot of people who have been and will be affected by what happend. There are already working poor families that are losing jobs over this. Because they are not "directly" affected by the loss of a family member they will not get any help outside of unemployment.
Local charities are hurting from lack of donations because everyone is so passionate to help the victims. Some of these charities use their funds to bring confort to people living with AIDS and other illnesses. I've had discussions with the workers and volunteers from a couple of these organizations.
My point is, there are a lot more victims of the terrorist attacks then the ones that you see on TV.
Then there's the victims of the tragic bus crash this morning. 10 were killed and 30+ injured. Will they receive the same generous outpouring of support the WTC victims are getting. I doubt it..
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 3, 2001 11:18 AM ]
posted on October 3, 2001 11:22:34 AM new
outof the blue wrote:
My point is, there are a lot more victims of the terrorist attacks then the ones that you see on TV
********************
And I'm not disagreeing with you on this at all. I only have to talk to my son (he sets up computers in NYC for big firms) and hear him say how they have no work and may go under, to know how true this is. I certainly hope that once the pure shock of this abates some, those families and workers will also be helped. We don't know how this will play out, since this has never happened to us. The biggest diff (IMO) why people are giving so much, is that this was murder..not an accident. This was a crime against our country, not a "certain" person. Innocent people die all the time, and often, in our community funds are diverted for that family, and I hope that will continue.
I have no doubt that this may hurt some other charities (it won't in my case, since I still have my favorites). That, I agree with you, is not good. I did say I hope that the money goes to ALL who need it. But do I resent them getting it? Not at all.
It all goes back to having a choice..to choose to give to A4A, Red Cross, your local church (ours has a presence in NYC, and they are helping), or not to give to this group.
posted on October 3, 2001 11:38:45 AM new
"What percentage do you think are exec's? Do you think all of those in their late 20's and early 30's were anything more than "workers"? Thousands were not exec's..some were cleaners, shop workers, and young men/women being trained and poorly paid. How much do you think workers comp pays to survivors?"
AS MUCH AS THEIR LAWYER CAN GET. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK A JURY WILL AWARD? I WOULD GUESS IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OR MORE. I REALLY DON'T THINK THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL LET ONE OF THESE CASES GO TO COURT, THEY WOULD LOOSE BIG TIME.
Some have left children (when both parents worked there), pregnant wifes, and I'm sure all have bills.
EVERYONE HAS BILLS, ARE THEY OWED A LIVING FOR EVER OR JUST FOR A WHILE.
Some were fireman, policeman..and in NYC they are never paid enough.
IMO, THEY ARE PAID ENOUGH. THE POLICE IN MY CITY LIVE IN HOUSES COSTING 3 TIMES AS MUCH AS MINE AND I LIVE NICELY. I DROVE BY ONE THE OTHER DAY, $100,000 HOUSE, TWO NEW CARS, & AND RV. SOUNDS PRETTY POOR TOO ME. I'D LIKE TO BE THAT POOR.
Some children were never picked up from daycare, since both parents worked in the WTC.As best as the funds can be handled, I would hope, that those that need it, are those who will get what eBay sellers and others are giving.
HEY, I'M ALL FOR GIVING IT TO THEM. THEM. THEM. THE VICTUMS WHO NEED IT, THEM.
I'm proud that our governor offered free college educations to anyone who is a member of an immediate family of a person that was killed in WTC, since this was a terriorist act against our country. And this offer is no matter where you live (lots of people lived in NJ, CT as well as Upstate NY). I pray that all of the families that were affected get a piece of the pie (eBay's or anyone else's that have given). I hope and pray we don't start thinking these families aren't entitled to whatever they get.
THESE FAMILIES ARE INTITLED WHAT THEY GET, I JUST HOPE "THEY" GET IT. WHY CAN'T ALL OUR CHILDREN HAVE A FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION. ALOT OF PEOPLE LOSE FAMILY MEMBERS EVERY YEAR TO MANY OTHER CAUSES, WHAT ABOUT THEM. LET GIVE IT TO CHILDREN WHO'S LOST A FAMILY MEMBER IN A DRUNK DRIVING ACCIDENT, CANCER, AIDS, HEART, LIVER. MY FATHER DIED OF CANCER BEFORE I FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL, WHERE WAS MY COLLEGE EDUCATION, WHERE WS MY MOTHERS EDUCATION. SHE PICKED HERSELF UP AND RAISED HER KIDS ALL BY HERSELF WITH A MINIMUM WAGE PAYCHECK. I'M ALL FOR FREE EDUCATION, REAL EDUCATION
This was an awful thing to happen. Do I think any one of these dead people were more important than someone killed in an accident not connected to WTC/PA/Pentagon? No, but that doesn't make this any less of a horrific thing to happen.
I DIDN'T SAY IT WASN'T HORRIFIC.
By the way, yes, charity does have a place right in your hometown..and I'm seeing more of that too. For the first time in years, our local hospital has enough blood to give. Our food pantrys are stocked, and people are becoming increasing aware of needs. This is happening in all of the places that were hit on that horrific day, and all over the country.
WONDERFUL, GREAT, JUMP JUMP FOR JOY!
I guess you missed the point:
Pay off some mortgages
pay off car loans
monthly financial support just to live
Free counseling
funeral expenses
Free Education for single parents who now have to go to work.
Oh, let me add take care of the children, as if that needed to be said.
I'm sure there are a thousand senerios that need to be addressed. They can't all be addresed here.
The point is put it realistic use not let it sit in some foundation for years and years.
Give these funds directly to the families, not the money managers for fancy office's.
posted on October 3, 2001 11:50:50 AM new
"The biggest diff (IMO) why people are giving so much, is that this was murder..not an accident."
The bus crash that I mentioned was murder. The drivers throat was cut and the bus flipped. This event however is not receiving the press that the other events received because there was a smaller body count and it wasn't as earth shaking. Those poeple will not receive the same instant celebrity status that the WTC victims did and will probably be forgotten within a week. That's Tragic!
Shouldn't those people receive the same generous support?
posted on October 3, 2001 11:59:29 AM new
LaneFamily
What excuse would you make to sellers forced out of business because someone's concept of charity unfairly exploits them without ever personally opening their own wallet to help?
Legitimate reasons to stay in business are not unAmerican nor are they excuses. eBayers are some of the most generous people in the world, but we're not collectively stupid when it comes to being exploited.
posted on October 3, 2001 12:20:44 PM new
Glass:
I'm sorry you are so bitter about these people being helped.It's obvious you are not going to respond to A4A, which is what this was about. And in this country you have a choice. I'm sorry your community didn't pull together to help the people in that bus (although if it just happened, maybe they just haven't had time). I'm sorry it didn't get the press that Sept 11 did. I'm sorry that America seems more shocked over these large numbers, even though I'm positive that the families of this bus murder also feel the same pain as the families in WTC. Perhaps you need to talk to people in your community and start a fund for them.
I'm glad your firemen are paid so well, but in NYC, they are not paid enough to give up their lives...and yet they did, helping others. I'm sorry your dad died when you were young, and you were unable to afford college. My Mom also raised all of us on minimum wage..it was tough.
I agree with you, that it would be helpful if the families had guidance in how to go on with their lives, and how to use whatever money they may get. Some may not be used to handling money. Several places have been set up to help. You seem to be very worried that they may sue and then have too much. I hardley think whatever they get, will sustain them for the rest of their lives, and I agree with you, that this should get them back on their feet. I'm betting no matter what amount they get, they would rather have their loved one back.
I've not been forced out of business by this, and my eBay is always slow this time of year (although it certainly picked up this week). I'll buy on eBay from whoever has whatever it is I'm looking for..I'll donate to whoever I want to give to. Freedom of choice..and you all have that too.
By the way, you don't need to shout at me, I can read fine in lower case. Obviously you don't want money to go to these people via eBay..I got your point without the shouting.
[ edited by DMRick on Oct 3, 2001 12:29 PM ]
posted on October 3, 2001 12:52:33 PM new
Hey I wasn't shouting, I was making your remarks different from mine.
I've already resonded to the originator, I'm responding to others now.
I'm not bitter about people being help at all. Help as many as can be helped, please.
I just know how so many of these foundations work, expense this and expense that. I just want to know that the money we send will reach Mrs. Smith who can't afford to pay her electric bill, Mr. Jones who's wife brought home the paycheck, and Mr. or Mrs. Grandma, Grandpa, Aunt, Uncle, Cousin, who are now raising another child. I want to see it in the hands of those who need it.
What I don't want to see is a $500 office chair where a $199 one would do the job. Plush carpetting where burber would cut it. Fine paintings in the lobby, where $5.00 prints will decorate just fine. But no little joey you don't qualify for this program or that program, your i wasn't dotted or your t looked like a g. That's what I fear we will see.
Oh, as I said before, somewhere on this post. I don't want to sign up for billpoint so I wont be doing A4A.
You may not have been forced out of business by this, but some are hurting very badly. I'm not one of them, but some are.
Good Bye
[ edited by glasshappy on Oct 3, 2001 12:54 PM ]
posted on October 5, 2001 03:08:13 PM new
Local Charity That Did Good:
A little boy had a seizure. He reverted to infant stage. Dad delivers pizza, Mom does not work. They drove a mini van which caused the one sister to have to ride with her legs over the top of the seat once all of the brother's equipment was in the van.
His only chance at a return to normal state is special therapy which is not covered on his hospitalization.
Enter the fine people of my town - milk containers on sales counters of various businesses have raised over $10,000 ... all of which goes to a new therapy which is working really well for him.
While looking for a van, the father went to a local privately owned dealership. He looked at a van but told the owner he could not come into the office because his son was in the van. The man told him to bring the child in. Once the father told him that was not possible and showed him his son, the dealer went into his business to meet with his partner.
Both men came out and said, "We will sell you that van for $4,000." A totally loaded, albeit full size used conversion van. Its real value had to be over $10,000.
These men never went after publicity, did not try to make themselves look good. I only know this because the boy's father told me.
posted on October 5, 2001 08:55:30 PM new
I'm not going to get into the discussion about the pros and cons of the AFA Auction but I do want to point out something that I think you may have missed. Notice the wording of the announcement for the AUCTION FOR AMERICA UPDATE: Bolding is mine..
QUOTE
"Sellers will be able to enter a shipping amount in the Instant Purchase field within the eBay Online Payments section of the Sell Your Item form. This amount will then be displayed to buyers and shipping costs will be charged accordingly. 100% of the auction proceeds of the item will still go to charity. However, sellers can now be reimbursed for shipping costs through eBay Online Payments."END QUOTE
This sure looks like a trial run to me for reimbursing sellers for shipping - like half.com. If they can do it on the AFA auctions they can do it on all of the auctions.
