posted on October 3, 2001 07:38:21 PM new
I have just received an e-mail from a buyer who purchased Depression Glass tumblers from me 30 days ago. She now claims that she believes that the tumblers are reproductions and is asking for a refund. Any advise?
posted on October 3, 2001 07:51:09 PM new
30 days is way too long for her to make up her mind on this.
If I was in your situation I would not refund.
If you do not already, you should have a time limit in your terms, something like "48 hour inspection/return policy". Or whatever time limit you would be comfortable with.
That's what I do. No, you can't always tell the exact day they get the merchandise, but at least they can't pull something like this.
posted on October 3, 2001 08:18:53 PM new
I would refund. If they are questioning the authenticity, that is a pretty serious charge. It's better to refund, and be done with this than deal with the consequences of a feedback that says something about selling fake stuff and not offering refunds.
posted on October 3, 2001 08:20:06 PM new
Stall her with a couple of emails but in the meantime get on the phone with PayPal, 1-888-221-1161 and explain the situation. Also send them a email so they have a heads up on the problem. Let them know that you are a reputable seller and do not want problems with Paypal or your account because you happen to have a frivelous sp? winner on your hands that is trying to pull a fast one 30 days after the fact. Ask them the best way to go on it. MHO I would flatly refuse, and let her know that, asking her to not bid on any more of your auctions, and let her know a copy is going to ebay Safe Harbor. Usually takes care of it.
posted on October 3, 2001 08:27:28 PM new
She gave me an excellent feedback a few days after receiving the tumblers & stated that the item was as described. Her complaint now is that she has just learned that that particular pattern tumbler is now being reproduced, which she didn't know before. My return policy is stated in my ad that the item can be returned for a refund if I am notified of this request three days after receiving the item.
posted on October 3, 2001 08:31:09 PM new
I still would offer the refund. If it is real, you can sell again. Your reputation should be worth a lot. Look at it this way, this sounds like a good buyer, and if this person feels ripped off, they may never buy from you or anyone else again. Stand behind your product, and they will be buying again. Of course, make sure that the items coming back ARE the same ones you sent out!
posted on October 3, 2001 08:56:51 PM new
Do you know for sure that they are the real deal? if they were advertised as such and they are not I would give her a refund. If there are not reproductions, for all you know she found a sent of reproductions and has made a switch on her end. Buyers remorse?
You gave her three days she took too long all PayPal will want to know is if the package was traceable and if so the number if you can show that she received them you should be ok, no matter the age of them.
the old me would tell her to shove them up her poop shute.
the new kinder gentler me would tell her to gently place them up her poop shute.
eBay fees are like being slowly pecked to death by chickens!!!
shoot I should have read it before I hit the button and shot it down the chute
[ edited by wranglers on Oct 3, 2001 09:31 PM ]
posted on October 3, 2001 09:38:00 PM new
If you did not knowingly misrepresent them and she expressed previous satisfaction then you are under no obligation especially if the price was fair value for what was sold.
It sounds like she is fishing for an excuse to return them. If you accept a return, she pays full shipping, the items must be returned in like condition and accepts a 15% percent restock charge deduction because this was past the return time period. Be absolutely firm and she has ten days to return them or you will refuse the package. If you don't lock the terms down, she could play this out for a long time.
posted on October 3, 2001 11:09:56 PM new
I find this thread disturbing. Several responses have been that the buyer should not be entitled to a refund because she took "too long" to express dissatisfaction.
The seller has stated that the items were sold as "Depression Glass" and the buyer now suspects they are not genuine. If this is true, then the buyer did not get what she paid for. In my state, the statute of limitations for breach of contract is four years, not three days or 30 days. It is no defense that the buyer left positive feedback or that the seller had a strict "return policy." The seller's innocent intent is also no defense.
posted on October 4, 2001 05:16:25 AM newmy state, the statute of limitations for breach of contract is four years
Right..and 4 years after I bought a car, I can walk back in & tell the seller there was an initial defect in it & I want to return it for a full refund???? Now WHAT state do you live in because I want to buy ALL my stuff there?
Note in all this, the buyer claims "she believes" it is a repro. I don't see where she's offered any proof.
Had she said she had it appraised or reviewed by a reliable dealer and it was found to be a repro, then I'd definately be in favor of considering a refund. But just because she's "heard" there are repros being made isn't a valid excuse.
This could be anything from someone purchasing these for resale & not having luck, therefore wanting to return them to someone who has found they aren't what was advertised & wants to return them.
And why did it take 30 days to find this new "belief"?
If they are, indeed, repros and you advertised them as original, you should refund. If you advertised them as original and they are original, then the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on.
I would tell her I'll refund her money, in full, if she provides you a written affadavit from an appraiser that these are repros and not original (assuming, though, you advertised them as original).
Should you allow her to return them, I'd be clear in explaining that you will refund her money once the items are returned to you WITH YOUR HIDDEN SELLER MARK INTACT on them.
posted on October 4, 2001 08:37:26 AM new
Well, this may be one of the factors why so many of you are complaining here about declining sales. I think if the seller does not refund, than this person is going to be a lot more cautious about buying online again. All it takes is one bad transaction for someone to say they will never buy on ebay again.
As one person pointed out, if the buyer feels received merchandise that was not as advertised (reproduction as opposed to authentic) that certainly can open the seller to legal problems, including a law suit, Ebay complaints, and mail fraud charges. Not really worth it in my opinion.
posted on October 4, 2001 08:42:12 AM new
Sorry, but your analogy is poor - This is not returning a car because you are dissatisfied. This is a case where the buyer feels that the seller sold fake merchandise, instead of authentic. Quite different! I deal in collectibles, and sometimes, it takes time to find this out. I don't have all the details here, but as an online seller, your reputation is everything.
Are you going to get screwed as a seller? Yes, happens all the time. In a retail store, there is shoplifting, returns that were not purchased from the store, etc. If the seller thinks that is what happened here, then maybe it is time for the seller to rethink how they package their material. I know for autograph and sportscard dealers, sometimes they put the material in containers that say if the seal is broken, then the merchandise can not be returned.
posted on October 4, 2001 08:56:46 AM new
I think she is having second doubts only because someone put a bug in her ear. You might be able to dispell her concerns by stressing to her that you believe they are genuine but for her own piece of mind she might want to have them examined by an expert.
From what I gather from your post she was happy, but someone (maybe a "good friend" told her the pattern is now being reproduced so she now wonders if they are indeed genuine. I would advise her that you are comfortable they are not repos, but to take the tumblers to a reputable dealer and if upon inspection they were to be repos you would be willing to refund even though it is well past your advertised inspection period. I would add you need the authentication in writing to give a full refund, otherwise you could only give a partial refund of 15% (or whatever your comfortable with).
If I buy an item as the real deal and I am satisfied, it is the real deal then someone comes along and tells me that it is not the real deal. I most definitely would have an expert look at it before I demanded a refund! To just take the word of someone that it might be a repo doesn't seem like justification to demand a return/refund.
posted on October 4, 2001 08:59:13 AM newAt what point is it reasonable to consider the transaction as completed?
I am wondering that also. Once a seller receives positive feedback you would think that the customer is satisfied?
Does it really take 30 days to decide? When I purchase something I can usually decide right away whether it is what I expected to receive.
I guess I would ask myself if I really wanted repeat business from a customer that takes this long to decide. It makes it difficult for sellers if you have to worry about customers whining months down the road even after leaving a positive. When is the sale really over?
posted on October 4, 2001 09:14:40 AM new
It is also the buyer's responsibility to become aware of repros in the categories they are purchasing from. There is lots of info out there and they have the opportunity to learn it.
If more buyers did this before hitting the bid button there would be less trouble afterwards.
posted on October 4, 2001 09:15:16 AM new
I agree that it's reasonable to want more proof than this that the item is not original before refunding. (i.e., "I brought it to an antique mall in town and an expert there told me it was a repro," "It's clearly stamped copyright 2001 on the bottom," whatever). If you advertised original, and she can demonstrate she received a reproduction, you should refund. If she received original, and is just unhappy because she overpaid because the value has dropped now that repros are available, that's buyer's remorse, and I would not refund.
I really doubt the buyer's trying to pull a fast one, or "the old switcheroo." If she was, she wouldn't have left a positive feedback, and would have complained immediately.
I also don't think 30 days is "too long." !! It's just been a few weeks. Sometimes it takes a seller a month to get around to shipping my item out. Seems reasonable to think that sometimes it might take a buyer a month to get around to making a good assessment of what she's received. If nothing else, the listing is still on the eBay system, and it would still be possible to leave feedback if the buyer had not done so already. If I'm taking a cue from eBay's timeline for leaving feedback, 90 days is a reasonable window.
Also, the attitude of many posters here seems to be, "She left feedback; therefore, my responsibility to this customer is ended." Pretty poor if you ask me. Sounds like a good argument for buyers never to leave sellers feedback, just in case.
Just curious, dorrie, how certain are you that the glasses were not repros? Were you aware they are being reproduced? Do you know how to tell the difference between the new repros and the originals? If you have this info and could share it with your buyer, you might be able to nip the whole situation in the bud.
posted on October 4, 2001 09:17:20 AM new
I guess you guys don't deal in collectibles. General merchandise is a lot different. If I am selling a piece of autographed memorabilia, I offer a LIFETIME guarantee.
For what it is worth, I've never had a person return something because they felt or knew it was fake. But I would take it back without argument, because as I have said, in collectibles, you have your reputation and not much else.
If she really had buyer's remorse, I think she would have contacted the seller MUCH sooner than 30 days. Also, a buyer can sell on ebay too if they decided they really did not want it. I agree that communication is important. How much did this item sell for? Was it $50, was it $500? If it was expensive, then you may want to work out a deal to get it authenticated, but if you are dealing with something relatively low value, it really is NOT worth it.
Terms of service are important, but this is a different case because the seller might be opening themselves up to legal litigation, as well as postal and ebay fraud. Hardly worth bing very strict on your terms under these circumstances.
posted on October 4, 2001 09:20:36 AM new
triplesnack brought up many good points. Actually, I think dorrie needs to come back & tell us how the description for these were worded.
In truth, we really don't have all the pieces of this puzzle w/o knowing a few more facts from dorrie before making a final recommendation on this.
posted on October 4, 2001 09:42:41 AM new
I deal alot in Fostoria American Glassware, its a cubist design(for those that don't know). There are many reproductions of that glassware. It absolutely amazes me how many listings there are in Fostoria Glass that are repos that of course I spot right away. But there are many out there bidding on this cheaper stuff thinking it is the real deal.
Its sad...I sell the REAL DEAL and prices have fallen so bad in the past months and I thinks its because of all the repo crap thats out.
The trick is for the seasoned buyer to be able to recognize the REAL from the REPO.
posted on October 4, 2001 10:27:05 AM new
This is how my ad was worded:
A very nice set of six crystal flat tumblers in the Iris and Herringbone pattern by the Jeannette Glass Co. They are all in excellent condition; no chips or cracks. They each measure 4 3/8" high. Don't miss out on this hard-to-find set! The bid is for all six. Check out my other Ebay Auctions!
CLICK ON THE RED TAG TO VISIT MY EBAY STORE FOR INSTANT PURCHASE ITEMS. E-mail me with any questions. Buyer to pay shipping & ins. It is my policy, that, if the buyer is not satisfied with the item to give refunds of only the purchase price, but no refunds of any postage or insurance. A refund will be given if the item is returned (within three days of receipt) in the same condition as when I sent it. It is my aim to have satisfied customers. There will be a small charge for bubble wrap if it is needed to ensure the safety of the item.
told her the pattern is now being reproduced so she now wonders if they are indeed genuine. I would advise her that you are comfortable they are not repos, but to take the tumblers to a reputable dealer and if upon inspection they were to be repos you would be willing to refund even though it is well past your advertised inspection period. I would add you need the authentication in writing to give a full refund, otherwise you could only give a partial refund of 15% (or whatever your comfortable with).