posted on June 18, 2002 08:42:47 AM new
Hello All,
Since I am new to the Message boards (but NOT to Ebay)I took the time to go back and read a LOT of the posts made in the last 100 days or so. One thing that I have seen pop up more then once from different sellers/buyers is the fact that many people are afraid to leave Neg Feedback for fear of retaliation, Shame on You!
You are not helping your fellow buyers/sellers one little bit by not leaving NEG feedback for scam sellers or deadbeat bidders when it is warranted! How are we going to get rid of (or even warn others) about some of these flakes when some of you are to afraid of getting a retaliation NEG to bother posting the truth!
I think the average ebay buyer or seller is smart enough to figure out that some feedbacks are nothing more then retaliation. When you have 100 people leaving POS feedback about how fast you contacted them, and shipped, then ONE person leave a NEG feedback that says you NEVER contacted them, it is pretty obvious that the NEG was a retaliation feedback. Heck, when I look at a seller with 100's or 1000's of feedbacks I EXPECT them to have a few NEGs.
I think some people put so much emphasis on THIER feedback rating that they lose site of what the feedback is actually for. It is there to make OTHER buyers/sellers aware of a potential problem person. Some are so afraid of getting a retaliation feedback that they will NEVER leave a NEG, and instead, just ignore it, put the problem person in THIER banned bidder list, and pass the problem on to the next buyer/seller.
I wonder how much sooner we could get rid of some scammers/deadbeats if EVERYBODY out there quit being scared and POSTED the TRUTH!
posted on June 18, 2002 08:49:27 AM new
i am not afraid of leaving neg feedback with deadbeats,surprise,i hear from them afterwards promising to send payment!!
some of the negs i received are from bidders who want a 2.00 shipping refund.
posted on June 18, 2002 08:59:18 AM new
I wish more people file FVF, for I see a bidder with lets say 50 plus, but 2 negatives, i figure surly my fvf filing will NARU'ed the guy, but nope, I am his first FVF!
posted on June 18, 2002 09:18:03 AM new
"You are not helping your fellow buyers/sellers one little bit by not leaving NEG feedback"
Umm.. So?
Don't misunderstand me- I'm all for helping newbies. I've left many posts here with helpful information. But it doesn't cost anything and doesn't hurt me to be helpful by posting in message boards.
I'm running a business here. *MY* image is all that counts. I'm not risking *MY* business' image to help other sellers. Why should I carry around retaliatory bad feedbacks to help other sellers?
Helping old ladies cross the street is a good thing, but not if you have to cut off your own foot to do it.
posted on June 18, 2002 09:22:23 AM new
You are not helping your fellow buyers/sellers one little bit by not leaving NEG feedback for scam sellers or deadbeat bidders when it is warranted! How are we going to get rid of (or even warn others) about some of these flakes when some of you are to afraid of getting a retaliation NEG to bother posting the truth!
********************************
You get rid of them by filing a NPB with eBay. That's my responsibility and I take it serious. All neg feedbacks do to (once they get several) is make the non-payer move on to another name...then we just think it's a new person. They can have many, many feedbacks (as long as they aren't in the minus range) and eBay won't do a thing. However, if you file NPB's, and they get enough (3 or 4), they get suspended. So no shame on me..I do what gets them off of eBay (yes, I realize some wil sign up under a different name..but you can only protect so much..if they are caught signing up, eBay will suspend that name too). Welcome to the board.
posted on June 18, 2002 09:23:45 AM new
First of all. What is a FVF? I have been selling & buying on Ebay for almost 5 yrs, but I don't know all of the acronyms.
Second, I agree with toptwo. I have 5 negs& all are for retaliation. I also have over 300 positives, most in glowing terms for my promptness in shipping & in paying. I can live with jerks who leave the negs as long as I keep getting the good ones. I very seldom leave a negative, but do if the buyer deserves it. I think I have left 4 or 5.
posted on June 18, 2002 09:29:34 AM new
*I'm running a business here. *MY* image is all that counts. I'm not risking *MY* business' image to help other sellers. Why should I carry around retaliatory bad feedbacks to help other sellers? *
And you don't mind if I was the last person that got burned by the flake...left no NEG feedback..and you are the NEXT person to get burned the flake. Costing YOU time and MONEY?
If I had left NEG feedback YOU might have had time to cancle his/her bid allowing a REAL buyer to buy your item. But, Alas, I left no feedback..so YOU accepted the bid, YOU got burned, and YOU leave no feedback, so now the NEXT person got burned...seems the ONLY people making money on THIS flake is Ebay!
posted on June 18, 2002 09:36:52 AM new
dmrick....Thanks for the welcome!
and you are correct, you have to file a FVF (FVF = Final value Fee refund) before Ebay will take any action. I too ALWAYS file for my fee. But I do also leave Neg feedback. I just feel that leaving the Neg will help other sellers make a more informed decision.. at least until Ebay slaps a NARU on em!
posted on June 18, 2002 09:53:02 AM new
toptwo while I agree with you (DITTO), I think each seller has the right to do what they want to do, within the eBay policies/rules and the various laws
[ edited by clarksville on Jun 18, 2002 09:53 AM ]
posted on June 18, 2002 10:03:25 AM new
I guess I have been lucky. I have been selling since 1999 and I have had to file only 3 FVF. I left 2 negatives and the 3rd was gone before I got there. I don't leave retalitory feed back either. I leave feedback after I mail my package. Now don't jump down my throat because I do that but I believe that when I mail my package my end is done. I have done everything in my power to get the item bid on to my buyer, including putting insurance on when buyer doesn't. I never give my buyer a chance to give me a negative as I package well and insure and if I don't insure, which I don't the small ticket items I refund. I give no hassells to my buyers and I get none back.
posted on June 18, 2002 10:12:38 AM new
As discussed before, this is something that each seller must decide for himself. I know that some change their methods along the way, sometimes they change more than once.
It depends how many feedback you have, the categories you sell in and also how sensitive you are to negative feedback.
Some sellers take negs with no problem and just keep marching on, other sellers are so sensitive that a neutral feedback will almost destroy them.
I agree with clarksville that each seller has a right to do what he wishes to within the rules and policies. Whatever works best for them.
posted on June 18, 2002 10:39:24 AM new
I don't know how many (if any) people scroll back 16 pages to see that, of my 8 "negatives", 7 were from the same person and were in retaliation to the ones I left for him because he didn't pay (at the tune of over $750!)for the auctions! However, that nasty red "8" negative feedback number is right there at the top for all to see immediately. Everyone who's posted has a good point...but now, I think long and hard before posting a "negative."
posted on June 18, 2002 10:58:36 AM new
I have had two negatives, one from a buyer who did not check with his post man regarding a confirmed delivery left at the apartment super's office and one was retaliation for a negative due to fraud. The delivery issue was reposted but the negative remains. When I leave negatives, I only state facts - date auction ended multiple emails sent no response/payment as of date of posting. No bad names no character assassination. I also request refund of fees from eBay. I agree, if we don't stand up and call these people on their dishonesty we should be ashamed of ourselves.
posted on June 18, 2002 11:43:46 AM new
Do you really scour a bidders feedback and make a determination as to if they are going to pay or not? If they do not pay I will file the NBP. This is the only way to get rid of these people. Leaving negative feedback does nothing for my bottom line.
It's not my job to dish out negative feedback to assist other sellers at my expense. No thanks.
Until the system is changed I will be looking out for Numero Uno.
posted on June 18, 2002 12:33:25 PM new
The NPB reports are much more important than the negative feedbacks. All it takes is 3 or 4 of them to get that buyer out. People usually only glance it the feedback rating and accept a fairly high number of negatives from a seller.
posted on June 18, 2002 01:04:46 PM new
to replaymedia:
Yea, it's all about YOU!!!
Because of people like you, so many deadbeats and scammers are allowed to be successful.
I don't trust anyone with a "perfect" reputation, because no one is perfect. It's like a woman with excessive make-up, it makes you wonder what she is hiding.
A more honest and ultimately more beneficial approach is to allow people see how you handle adversity.
And when you getted screwed by one of these jerk...s, don't come a whinin'!!!
posted on June 18, 2002 01:39:46 PM new
"I don't trust anyone with a "perfect" reputation, because no one is perfect. It's like a woman with excessive make-up, it makes you wonder what she is hiding."
Are you seriously saying that you would NOT trust me because I am a red star seller with no neutral or negative feedback?
If I had a boat load of negs, I would be MORE trustworthy to you?
posted on June 18, 2002 01:48:19 PM new
For all of you people that refuse to leave negative feedback let me give you this scenario...
Seller1 posts a blue widget for sale, Seller2 Posts a red widget for sale. Deadbeatbidder comes along and buys both widgets. Seller1 and Seller2 send multiple WBN's to Deadbeatbidder. Deadbeatbidder never answeres a single email, never pays. Seller1 & Seller2 file NPB's (and of course have to WAIT 10 days to file FVF's), 10 days go buy and both sellers are granted FVF's ...BUT...Seller1 and Seller2 are soooooooo worried about retaliation feedback that neither one leaves Negative feedback.
Now, YOU launch YOUR auctions. (Since MANY here do this full time, or at least part time I am going to assume that MANY of you list Multiple auctions I myself list about 80 a week currently) So...you launch your 80 auctions and Deadbeatbidder happens across YOUR auctions and decideds to mess with YOU this time. So Deadbeatbidder bids on 20+ of your auctions. You look on with $$$ signs in your mind thinking you just might have a GREAT week. Your auctions close...and YOU find out that Deadbeatbidder REALLY IS a Deadbeat! You just lost ALL of that TIME, and ALL of your listing Fee's AND ALL of the potential profit you WOULD have made off the LEGITIMATE Bidders. Are YOU a Happy Camper?
Now answer me this....had Seller1 and Seller2 given NEG feedback for Deadbeatbidder and he had been showing Deadbeatbidder(-2)would YOU have continued to let him bid? or would YOU have cancled out ALL of his bid and placed him on your Banned Bidder list BEFORE your auctions ended!
I agree...if YOU now file for a FVF Deadbeatbidder will be NARU'd. BUT...You just lost Money on 20+ auctions that you would have MADE money on had Seller1 and Seller2 NOT worried about retaliation feedback and had done the "right thing" and left the appropriate NEG's.
Who knows, maybe YOU would let somebody with a -2 rating bid on YOUR auctions...but I sure dont.
posted on June 18, 2002 02:06:37 PM new
I have to agree with Toptwo.
I understand that we are business people and for some of us this is what pays the rent, but come on! A couple negs is not going to destroy a seller's business. Some of you are plenty paranoid. And Toptwo is right..what if all sellers had your attitude? What if it was YOU who was ripped off because the previous sellers were too scared of retaliation to leave negatives?
While filing FVFs is what gets deadbeats NARU'd, a negative in that person's file can be a warning light to other sellers and prevent them from being taken as you were.
I never hesitate to leave a negative if it's deserved. I feel it's my duty to alert other sellers to this deadbeat. I don't care if i get a retalitory neg...the deadbeat's record will speak for itself, as will mine. It's not the end of the world.
I'm really sickened by the selfish attitudes of some of the sellers on this thread..but sadly not at all surprised.
I research, therefore i learn. I learn, therefore i succeed.
posted on June 18, 2002 02:07:03 PM new
Banana Spider:
I don't trust the fact that you achieved a high feedback without encountering problems.
Some seller's would do anything to avoid a negative, thus your feedback is not an necessarily an accurate representation of yourself.
One way is NOT to post deserved negatives or file NPBA's and FVF's. This avoids undeserved negs or neutrals but in no way serves to warn others of disreputable people.
posted on June 18, 2002 02:25:04 PM new
I do file NPB and FVF and leave warranted negative feedback. I am not reckless or nasty about it though. I remain professional at all times. I think I've only had about 6 or 7 NPB's in approximately two years selling on eBay.
I have a little over 1800 positive feedbacks (1031 unique), no neutrals and no negatives. I have nothing to hide. It's called good business.
posted on June 18, 2002 03:05:21 PM new
To clarify on my previous post, in which I was intentionally playing Devil's Advocate, I sell mostly inexpensive (under $7.50) items.
If I want to make the effort, sometimes I do file NPB's which gets people thrown off eBay. I've been #4 (The last straw) on several bidders. But I DON'T leave negs anymore. My feedback isn't perfect (800+ Pos, 2 Negs, 2 Neuts) and all were essentially retaliatory.
If they don't pay in a couple of weeks, I relist the item. In my own viewpoint, it's not worth a big fight or a Neg over a $4 videotape. I *DO* get deadbeats all the time. Not a huge percentage, but a couple each week. I re-list the item and move on.
I've never been involved with a scam, but I'll be the first to admit that I've probably just been lucky.
Now if I ever got screwed over a $100 item, ABSOLUTELY, I'd slam them to the fullest extent allowed. But I don't sweat the small stuff...
posted on June 18, 2002 03:07:41 PM new
It's not luck. It's skill and great customer service and well-described items and no gouging on the shipping and all the other little things that make up a superior seller. Some sellers take days to send out the 'you won my auction' email letter and some take a week to mail out the item after receiving payment, etc. There are great sellers and there are good sellers and there are fair sellers and there are crappy sellers.
I send my items within 24 hrs usually 12 hrs I answer my emails within a few minutes usually, I take many pictures of my items so the buyer knows what he is getting, I fully accuratly describe my products and I still have a neg and 2 neutrals.
Am I a bad seller?? Nope.
And YES I do leave a neg each time I have a NON-Paying bidder and that is at least 2-3 negs a week I leave.
posted on June 18, 2002 05:44:07 PM new
Now answer me this....had Seller1 and Seller2 given NEG feedback for Deadbeatbidder and he had been showing Deadbeatbidder(-2)would YOU have continued to let him bid? or would YOU have cancled out ALL of his bid and placed him on your Banned Bidder list BEFORE your auctions ended!
****************************
I have never, in about 3 years, looked at my buyers feedback. If someone doesn't pay me, I'll re-list. Ebay gives me that second relist at no charge if it sells the second time. If it doesn't..well, it obviously didn't sell the first time either...that's suppose to help in the instance of a non payer. I have had four non payers in three years (I list about 100 a month..sometimes more, sometimes less)..I figured they were having bad weeks, filed for my money back, and decided to let eBay handle it if they got more. If they were low feedback people, they have nothing to lose by moving onto another name, anyway. I had no idea that so many people look at their buyers feedback, and I have never cancelled an auction because of what might be...I don't have the time to do more than put it up, collect, and ship it out...put it up, collect and ship it out...well, you get the idea..
posted on June 18, 2002 06:08:17 PM newIf someone doesn't pay me, I'll re-list. Ebay gives me that second relist at no charge if it sells the second time.
Sorry, but this is incorrect. If your auction ends with no bids at all, then you do get reimbursed the listing fee if it sells on the second go-round.
However, if it ends with a bid - including a bid that is never paid - then you do not get reimbursed the listing fee on the relist, no matter what. Even if you jump through all the NPB/FVF hoops, ebay still considers it the same as relisting a completed auction - in other words, no refund on the relist fee.
posted on June 18, 2002 07:40:51 PM new
Hmm...I guess I'm wrong then. Sorry. I thought when I had a non paying bidder...that after I filed the FVF and relisted the same auction, that I got a credit when it sold...it's been so long, I can't remember, I guess. Either way...eBay has been very good to me, I get so very few non payers, that I don't work myself up into a frenzy. I move on..relist, and resell the item. I assume one of two things (yes I know what they say about those who assume), that your item was not a large selling item, and the listing fee wasn't very big (yes, if you are getting lots and lots of non payers it would add up), or the item was a biggie, and it cost you a lot more to list than you want to loose...wouldn't you make enough on a large item, to cover that expense? Or are the items you are getting so often stiffed on, not having multiple bidders, so you can sell to the next one down..who would have been the high bidder if this clown didn't stiff you? I wonder why some of you have soooo many non payers, however, that it has to be such a big issue. Maybe that should be what is being looked at, not how one person decides to run their business re: to neg or not to neg.
***************************
Sorry, but this is incorrect. If your auction ends with no bids at all, then you do get reimbursed the listing fee if it sells on the second go-round.
However, if it ends with a bid - including a bid that is never paid - then you do not get reimbursed the listing fee on the relist, no matter what. Even if you jump through all the NPB/FVF hoops, ebay still considers it the same as relisting a completed auction - in other words, no refund on the relist fee.
