posted on July 31, 2002 03:46:13 PM new
I need some help! It seems that credit cards are the safest choice for Buyers. However, the Seller has to pay the transaction fees. Do you know if many Sellers give discounts for non-credit card purchases, like a personal check, cashiers check or money order? Thanks, Dick Ward
posted on July 31, 2002 05:39:33 PM new
I'm surprised more sellers don't do this - I don't but I have thought about it. Paypal and my merchant account does add up. It's totally acceptable to do this...
posted on July 31, 2002 05:55:55 PM new
Why can't sellers simply include this as the cost of doing business and charge a little more in their asking price? I don't think you can say on the auction page that you will charge two different prices anyway.
posted on July 31, 2002 06:02:50 PM newStusi:"Why can't sellers simply include this as the cost of doing business and charge a little more in their asking price?"
posted on July 31, 2002 06:08:01 PM new
Because this is an AUCTION environment, and we don't really have control over what the item sells for. When I do sales and not auctions, then I can figure this out, and mark my price. I've found to succeed in an auction, I have to start my prices low. Sometimes they go high, sometimes they go low. It's bad enough to take a loss on an item, but to have to pay for the paypal and ebay fees on top of this makes it worse.
posted on July 31, 2002 06:14:40 PM new
I think on a similar thread, a few months ago, the popular idea was to add it to the shipping and handling charge. The question then was whether you could charge more for a paypal payment (against paypal rules), so the suggestion was in the handling of the package. The handling doesn't change, so if a customer pays check or MO, then you have a + balance in that accounting. If they pay by billpoint or paypal, then it goes against that money. The + balance can be used to offset those items that went really high on the bidding and was paid by cc...
posted on July 31, 2002 06:26:07 PM new
gc2- I have bought over 500 items and sold about 20, never accepting credit cards.
ahc3- If it is such a big problem then don't accept credit cards. If you are a high volume seller then your expenses should average out and incorporating the CC fees in your costs of doing business(asking prices) should not be so difficult.
posted on July 31, 2002 06:40:22 PM new
It doesn't matter how much you have purchased as a buyer, this simply is not an issue for them. I've had thousands of online transactions selling items, and it does matter. It wasn't much of an issue a few years ago, because paypal did not exist, and very few paid with credit card. These days, you have to accept credit cards (and paypal) to remain competitive. 20 auctions sold without accepting credit cards probably does not give you enough data to work with. By the way, it isn't a problem with me or my buyers, I try to make up as much as I reasonably can with shipping/handling fees. I don't gouge, and some items I know I can sell at a decent enough profit so I can keep the shipping at exact priority mail.
posted on July 31, 2002 06:53:56 PM new
Forget the discount idea. I think it will only encourage confusion and encourage buyers to haggle for other discounts. My suggestion is to sign up for c2it (no charge to buyer or seller for accepting MC/Visa) or for BidPay (buyer buys a Western Union money order online using their MC/V/Disc/AmEx). Either way, buyers can pay with a credit card and it doesn't hurt your bottom line.
posted on July 31, 2002 06:56:48 PM new
There are 2 problems in what is being discussed here. No. 1: You cannot charge more for using a credit card. No2: How are you going to give a cash/check payer a discount? This is legal whereas a surcharge for a c/c is not. If you are a high volume seller, then maybe you ought to figure this apart of doing business as any commercial business does. I don't understand why eBay sellers should think they are different. Any commercial business has to absorb the cost of doing business with credit cards. I have for years.
[ edited by sanmar on Jul 31, 2002 06:58 PM ]
posted on July 31, 2002 06:59:31 PM new
ahc3- selling online by auction is really no different than any other retail selling except you are never sure of the final price. Why is it so difficult to cost average in your asking prices particularly if you do have a high volume of sales?
posted on July 31, 2002 08:30:45 PM new
I have a problem with you statement that you aren't gouging. Well IHMO, if you are inflating the shipping charge to recover your loss on the C/C discount, then you are gouging. A credit card discount is just a part of doing business. I have paid thousands of dollars in discounts in the past 30 yrs. It is part of doing retail business. If you are in this to make a profit, then do it on the up & up. Not by hiding your charges in the cost of shipping.
[ edited by sanmar on Jul 31, 2002 08:32 PM ]
posted on July 31, 2002 08:59:50 PM new
Stussi & sanmar - Do you really believe that a mail order business that charges $8 to ship an item that really costs $3 to ship is not marking up shipping to recover operating costs like accepting credit cards?
As a seller on and off ebay, I can't simply ignore the operating expenses like accepting credit cards and treat it as "part of doing retail business" - Part of doing retail business is to make sure that your income is great than your expenses, otherwise, you won't have a business to worry about.
When I do in person sales, I can set the price of an item to take into account what operating expenses are. It's different in an auction format, where you don't have much say in what the final price of the item is.
posted on July 31, 2002 09:37:40 PM new
I think the question their asking is can they give a discount to people who use checks and money orders. He doesn't want to charge more for credit cards but that is really what happens when you discount the other things. We had a thread not to long ago about giving buyers a 1% or 3% discount if using checks or money orders. Since they got rid of the search it will be difficult to find unless the person that started the thread is still around. I think you can do about anything EXCEPT charge a surcharge for using a credit card because it is against the credit card TOS not PayPals
posted on August 1, 2002 05:31:18 AM new
ahc3- I never said that. However, anyone buying from someone who states their S&H costs in the auction knows what they are doing regardless of "gouging".
posted on August 1, 2002 10:55:46 AM new
Going back to the mail order business charging $8.00 for a $3.00 shipping charge. You are partially right, but remember they have a shipping dept. that has sometimes a hundred people working in it. Now they can add this cost to the markup of the item, or make a direct charge for shipping. By doing it the second way, they stay more competitive in the market place. Many of these mail oeder houses work on a very low margin of profit. That is the reason Sears got out of the mail order business.
posted on August 1, 2002 11:12:48 AM new
Hi dickward!
Try to keep in mind that this is not a retail environment.
There is a direct advantage for sellers to accept credit cards, very worth the minimal fee that they pay.
Mostly is the first but I'm sure you can think of several more:
1) immediate payment to keep up the cash flow (v. waiting for the mail to deliver a money order or check that will then still need to clear).
2) lower probability of fraudulent payment (do you know what every bank's MO and cashiers check look like? you could tell a fake one? BTW, MO's get stolen from WalMart, 7-11, etc every day.)
3) expedition of auction completion (ie faster relist on npb's).
4) less likelihood to hear: it must be lost in the mail .
5) if a bidder or their family member is about to die, go into the hospital, or have a computer crash, it happens much sooner .
The less chances I have of being stiffed or receiving 'bad' payment, the happier I am.
yup, worth the fee to me.
I would actually want to charge a buyer more to accept their personal check (I dont take em) or any money order other than a postal MO.
JMHO
posted on August 1, 2002 11:52:23 AM new
I think everyone is different depending on the size of your business. For 3 of my 4 years on eBay I did not charge handling or credit card charges but in those times items were selling on eBay at far higher prices than they are now. I was selling 5-$6,000.00 a month and making good profits. Now I am selling 2-$3,000.00 and working harder than ever. When prices fell I started looking at ways to cut costs and raise profits.
After looking around I found most sellers were charging for handling and all larger business charge handling fees. I now charge around $1.00 handling fee on all auctions and have never had a complaint. That $1.00 helps to pay credit card and eBay fees along with gas and bubble wrap etc. I wish I had been smart enough to start charging that $1.00 from the start like most were doing.
I sold 3,000 items that I didn't charge it on. That is $3,000.00 that would be in my pocket right now. I could have lived with the few people that would have not bid or been a little mad because they didn't read my terms.
posted on August 1, 2002 12:20:24 PM newtoolhound I sold 3,000 items that I didn't charge it on. That is $3,000.00 that would be in my pocket right now
I don't begrudge you charging a handling fee, however, I'm not sure that your s&h math is as clear cut as you make it out to be. It is probably more of a variable than you think.
meaning:
Of those first 3000 auctions/customers, how many bid in part because they thought your shipping charge was fair?
(that would make it less than $3000 for your pocket if you had added that extra buck)
How many wouldn't have bid in the first place because they don't like auctions with handling fees?
(that would lower your $3000)
how many of those initial bidders became repeat bidders?
If they hadn't bid in the first place, they wouldn't come back to buy again.
Would a bidder come back to your auctions if they saw a major difference between actual postage amount & the amount charged?
(I see sleers w/neg FB on that one quite often)
How many of your bidders are your customers rather than your competitors because you charge a fair amount?
Once again, I don't have a problem with sellers charging handling, but we do not live in a vacuum so I don't think you can quantify the dollars so easily.
Those variables were off the top of my head, I'm sure there are several other ways to look at it.
After looking around I found most sellers were charging for handling and all larger business charge handling fees.
Everybody's doing it is usually not a good enough reason to dive in head first.
Sounds like you made a wise decision in only charging a dollar rather than gouging bidders ~ looking around you will probably find most sellers charging more than you.
Glad you decided to stay fair!
IMHO, gas and bubble wrap are part of the cost of an item, meaning that they should be absorbed in the starting bid, not as an afterthought called 'handling'.
Should WalMart / Sears / Publix / etc charge a handling fee since they have to pay for cash registers, receipt paper, ink, shopping bags, etc?
Nope. They'd flush their sales down the toilet and watch their customers run across the street to their competition.
Part of the cost of doin biz.
JMHO
posted on August 1, 2002 01:28:24 PM new
"Should WalMart / Sears / Publix / etc charge a handling fee since they have to pay for cash registers, receipt paper, ink, shopping bags, etc?"
What they do has nothing to do with what eBay sellers do. They add all of there handling and costs in to the fixed price. We are selling at an auction Not Fixed Prices. Every sucessfull business is charging for handling in one way or another. Either hidden as in Publix buys a can of corn for .20 cents and sells it for .40 cents. Part of that is handling charge no matter what you call it.
Talking of Publix have you heard they are doing home delivery as a test in some areas? They are charging $10.00 for delivery. Think part of that is called handling or all shipping?
posted on August 1, 2002 02:43:16 PM new
Even public auctions have an additional fee for people to pay after the bid amount. A nominal handling charge is not a huge problem. If you charge $5 s&h and the postage on the box says 45 cents, there may be a problem, and an upset customer. But if you charge $5 for s&h and the postage on the box says $4, I don't see the huge problem. Its not price gouging, and it guarantees that the fees involved in selling the product are taken care of. But, then, I rarely bid on an auction that doesn't have a listed s&h price.
Also, This is supposed to be an auction sales business, not gambling. If your product doesn't bring in enough to cover all of the costs, then you are gambling. Don't gamble. Run a personal Business.
posted on August 1, 2002 07:09:47 PM newIf I sell an item for $100, and the person pays by CC, I will get charged a 3% fee. If I offer a 3% discount for money orders, then I am in essence paying that 3% fee on money orders that I am paying on CC transactions. How does this help me, exactly?????
okie dokie.
it helps as stated in my last post:
immediate payment.
no chance of fake money order.
no bogus lost in the mail story.
no true lost in the mail story.
Using PayPal as an example:
cash from cc pmt earns interest upon deposit.
IOW, as soon as buyer pays me, I get paid & I start earning interest.
MO has to be purchased by the buyer, then mailed. MO sitting in the postal system does not do me any good.
MO once arrived via snail mail, now waiting to be deposited in bank also does not earn interest.
cash from cc can be deposited with a mouse click, free of charge.
MO needs to be driven to bank (my car uses gas, does yours?), gotta endorse it & the deposit slip needs to be filled out as does the ATM envelope (my pens use ink), wait in line / idle at drive thru (my time has value as does the gas I'm wasting), and then the MO can still bounce because it was fake in the first place (bank charges for that). Now I have to add my deposit slip to the rest of the deposit slips and keep some kind of filing system (more time to waste).
SO unless you can guarantee that a MO is 'real' and it takes itself to the bank all by itself, you are not actually saving 3%.
not to mention that if I want to use that money via PayPal CC, I get money back.
Take your out of the bank as conveniently as that and more than likely PAY to use YOUR money . Aint atm surcharges grand? oh yeh, gotta add that withdrawal into that filing system. yippee.
You really need to think about ALL of the variables involved before you spew out numbers.
I run a business. Taking PayPal (credit cards) saves me money and time.
It also streamlines eBay money management. Any $ I reinvest or spend on supplies runs right through that PayPal card. I save 1.5% at the post office! and I save 1.5% on eBay fees! I love that cashback thing!
still convinced that taking MO's is cheaper than CC???
Last time I figured it out, accepting money orders cost me time and money.
That was without a way to compensate for the ability to re-list items faster since I am aware of deadbeats faster. I get my FVF back from deadbeat auctions in an average of 24 days. Inventory turnover is much faster for me now that I've cut back on accepting MO's & cashiers checks.
couldn't figure a dollar amount on that.
posted on August 1, 2002 07:25:06 PM newtoolhound They add all of there handling and costs in to the fixed price. We are selling at an auction Not Fixed Prices.
where do you get a starting bid price from if not from the expenses of your item?
We are selling at an auction Not Fixed Prices
the only thing that is not 'fixed' is your profit. Your asking price needs to cover your expenses.
Part of that is handling charge no matter what you call it.
it is called the cost of doing business. That is how they choose to ask 40cents for the widget they paid 20cents for.
costs + expenses + minimum acceptable profit = starting bid.
hello?
They are charging $10.00 for delivery. Think part of that is called handling or all shipping?
No, I think that a delivery charge is for delivery.
Order one item or one million and it is still ten bucks.
(but please be careful 'handling' my groceries, I hate smooshed bread)
BTW, the 'test' that you mention has NO charge here for handling, shipping, OR delivery.
most likely so they can figure out what is fair and still competitive.
...full circle...
posted on August 1, 2002 07:41:19 PM newimmediate payment.
Immediate payment that sits in limbo until it is depostied into my account.
no chance of fake money order.
Certainly a chance of a "hacker" getting into someone's account, or stealing someone's CC info.
no bogus lost in the mail story.
"I already paid your invoice!" I've heard that one a million times.
no true lost in the mail story.
How often does this REALLY happen? Be honest.
Using PayPal as an example: cash from cc pmt earns interest upon deposit.
Yeah, if you get their debit card. I don't believe in letting a company who claims they are not a bank, hold my money like they are a bank.
IOW, as soon as buyer pays me, I get paid & I start earning interest.
How much interest are you REALLY getting - in actual dollars and cents (cents probably) from that great "interest bearing account with a non-bank)????
MO has to be purchased by the buyer, then mailed. MO sitting in the postal system does not do me any good.
If it does you no good, have the PO forward them to me.....
MO once arrived via snail mail, now waiting to be deposited in bank also does not earn interest.
So your PayPal account earns you interest, but your local bank does not?????? WTF?????
And how long does it take to deposit a money order? 2 - 3 minutes????
cash from cc can be deposited with a mouse click, free of charge.
Into that same "non interest bearing bank account"?????
MO needs to be driven to bank (my car uses gas, does yours?)
yeah, that's why I walk to the bank.
gotta endorse it & the deposit slip needs to be filled out as does the ATM envelope (my pens use ink)
If your bottom line is SO slim you can't afford pens, it's time to find a new line of work.
wait in line / idle at drive thru (my time has value as does the gas I'm wasting)
And the value of that time is in the MONEY ORDER YOU ARE DEPOSITING!!!!
and then the MO can still bounce because it was fake in the first place (bank charges for that)
And PayPal freezes your account, CC companies do chargebacks, etc. etc. etc.
Now I have to add my deposit slip to the rest of the deposit slips and keep some kind of filing system (more time to waste).
It is called bookkeeping, and is used when you file your taxes. You DO file your taxes for your business, right?????
SO unless you can guarantee that a MO is 'real' and it takes itself to the bank all by itself, you are not actually saving 3%
Ummm.... okay.
not to mention that if I want to use that money via PayPal CC, I get money back.
Yeah, money PayPal charged you to get the money in the first place. How much are you getting back, in real dollars and cents (cents again, I bet)
Take your out of the bank as conveniently as that and more than likely PAY to use YOUR money .
Not in any bank I use.
Aint atm surcharges grand?
Which is why a REAL BUSINESS ACCOUNT doesn't have an ATM card. You are a REAL BUSINESS, aren't you?
oh yeh, gotta add that withdrawal into that filing system. yippee.
And what do you do with your CC statements? Use them to line your birdcage? It is called running a business. Some of are actually doing this legit.
You really need to think about ALL of the variables involved before you spew out numbers.
You are telling ME to think about all the variables? YOU, who is whining about pen ink?
I run a business.
Without any sort of bookkeeping, obviously.
Taking PayPal (credit cards) saves me money and time.
I never said it didn't save time, but money???? You should look at your bottom line some time, and compare.
It also streamlines eBay money management. Any $ I reinvest or spend on supplies runs right through that PayPal card. I save 1.5% on postage! I love that cashback thing!
And all that time PayPal is making money on your "invested interest-bearing money". That isn't an investment. It is a bank account, only without the bank.
Last time I figured it out, accepting money orders cost me time and money.
And PayPal costs you neither? What about your internet connection? Or electricity? Or time spent on the PayPal website? Or time spent punching the keys on your keyboard? Your time isn't free, after all.
That was without a way to compensate for the ability to re-list items faster since I am aware of deadbeats faster.
How can you be aware of a deadbeat faster? are you not giving them the alotted time? You know, the 7 days to file the NPBN, and then another 10 to file the FVF? I think I would have received a money order within 17 days.
I get my FVF back from deadbeat auctions in an average of 24 days.
I get mine in 17, and I don't accept PayPal. So there.
Inventory turnover is much faster for me now that I've cut back on accepting MO's & cashiers checks.
Suuuuuuuuure.
couldn't figure a dollar amount on that.
I could. 3%.
EDITED TO REMOVE ONE TINY LITTLE "/" MARK
[ edited by revvassago on Aug 1, 2002 07:43 PM ]
posted on August 1, 2002 08:06:24 PM new
It makes no sense to me to offer a discount for a non-credit card payment. The benefits of accepting credit cards vs. checks or money orders have been addressed.
I offer both types of payments and let them pay however they wish. To offer discounts on payments just adds more confusion. Both credit card users and check or money order buyers should pay the same price for the item(s).
posted on August 1, 2002 08:10:58 PM new
*sigh*
a business bank account does not have an atm withdrawal card and you have to wait for a monthly statement. My pp acct is on-line 24/7.
ALL of my business expenses are run through that card so it is very easy to balance my books, on-line 24 hours a day.
I get 1.5% back for my DSL that I already have so I can sell on eBay in the first place. I actually had electricity before I even started eBaying. In house plumbing, too [grin].
I've had over 3000 PP transactions and have nevernot even once heard 'I've already paid you'.
Do things really get lost in the mail?
IMHO? no. According to bidders, yes, because I still get 2 e-mails a month from bidders saying payment was sent. Actually, one usually says that they sent it to the wrong address.
In my experience, I've shipped over 4000 packages and only one has actually fallen into the postal black hole. I think the postal service is Great ~ the bidders just lie
As far as earning interest on a business checking account, that is against the law in Florida ~ not sure about your state.
My point about earning interest is that the nano-second that pmt leaves bidders hands, I start earning interest on it ~ minimal as it may be it makes up part of the 3% that you so proudly claim. ZERO time delay from them to me. It takes more than two or three minutes to deposit a MO because it first has to be purchased, then mailed, then received. G-d forbid there's a holiday or two in there. BTW, busuness checking accounts do qualify for deposit only atm cards.
ALL of my business expenses are taken into accounted for tax purposes ~ including office supplies such as pens and bubble wrap.
If you are charging your bidders for those plastic bubbles, you cannot consider it an expense ~ it was paid for by the bidder, not you.
The cash back I receive on eBay fees & postage is a lot more than cents. The interest I earn while my money sits there is minimal (and taxable, too ).
As far as security goes, paypal is safer than most banks. (6 years as a bank officer for one of the largest banks in the country).
wait in line / idle at drive thru (my time has value as does the gas I'm wasting)
to which you responded:
And the value of that time is in the MONEY ORDER YOU ARE DEPOSITING!!!!
nope, you're spending part of your 3%.
posted on August 1, 2002 08:35:28 PM new jalleniii
I agree that discounts only confuse the matter. My first post addressed the question at hand.
I have an issue with that 3% stuff.
As a PayPal preferred merchant account ~ I pay .7% + 30cents ~ no where near 3%, and it more than pays for itself as my prior posts point out.
Many newbies and not so newbies lurk and post here ~ that 3% info is highly misleading.
apples to apples and all that.
My posts were an attempt to let those *out there* be better informed rather than shy away from CC payments.
We agree......although the PayPal merchant rate is 2.2% + .30 per transaction.
I am assuming your are factoring in the 1.5% debit card rebate to arrive at this number.
.
.
).