posted on November 20, 2000 04:14:34 PM new
>>yisgood - I do hope you go back to ALL the boards you posted this on and correct.<<
I only posted it here.
>>I clearly recall you singing the praises of paypal on these boards and you and I duked it out back then. You write prolifically as if you have authority and I am sure that plenty of people signed on with Paypal on your recommendation back then, and to their detriment as I am sure now you would admit. <<
What I said was that verifying your account did not give PP the right to withdraw money from it. That is a fact. That the 1.9% was not outrageous. That is a fact. That PP is trying to protect both buyers and sellers. There I was wrong. I foolishly believed what they said and I have spent a lot of effort correcting that.
>>This time you have been posting far and wide that Paydirect sucks, based on misinformation.<<
It was not misinformation. It was what Paydirect told me directly. "In the event of a charge back, the money will be charged back to the seller." They will make no attempt to help. Proof of shipping will do no good. This comes a few lines after they claim there can be no charge backs. I don't see how Paydirect is any less devious and smarmy than Paypal except that they are free (for now). This particular problem was not Paydirect, but there have been others and there will be more, since Paydirect will make no effort to defend charge backs.
>>I think it is only fair that you attempt to undo the damage. It is clear from your posts that you are trying to help, but I wonder if you think about the fallout from an error like this and if you will take responsibility and do the right thing. <<
If by "fallout" you mean folks refusing to accept Paydirect until they give the sellers a minimal amount of protection, then I have done the right thing. There is no reason why they can't give the sellers a chance to respond. There is no reason why they pretend there will be no charge backs. It is time for their TOS to be honest. I don't understand why you are defending their dishonesty except for the argument "well, it hasn't happened to me" which is the same argument the Paypal defenders used.
posted on November 20, 2000 04:39:44 PM new
yisgood - I read this Paydirect tirade of yours on 2 other sites, but oh well I am probably mistaken, delusional, confused or lying.
posted on November 20, 2000 05:03:39 PM new
VM, I'm a little confused...what misinformation are you refering to? I don't want to get into the middle of this disagreement between you and Yisgood, but if there is something you know that is incorrect, I'd like to hear it regardless of it's posted by you or Yisgood.
posted on November 20, 2000 05:13:44 PM new
auctionee - yisgood has posted in the thread and elsewhere that Y Paydirect allowed a buyer to "cancel" a payment to a seller leaving the seller out $800 because he had already shipped (a computer).
I questioned this because it did not seem possible, and then yankeejoe reported that in fact it was PAYPAL who allowed the user to cancel payment to the seller.
Turns out yankeejoe was correct, and I think that yisgood should make the rounds to correct this tale he has told which some people have found credible since he/she writes with this authority (hey - I can't follow him/her around all day to clean up or blow my whistle when he fouls). Point is that he has used Paypal's bad deed to publicaly smear and degrade Yahoo Paydirect and I find that egregious. All of this is in the thread btw.
posted on November 20, 2000 05:40:42 PM new
yes auctionee - yisgood and I have history. I've argued fruitlessly like this with him/her about Paypal and before that about Yahoo auctions in general.
Now here is the weird part.
I used to think that "yisgood" stood for "Yahoo is Good". Yes! When I first got to AW. This was back when I used to lurk and never thought I would post in a million years. In fact, although I do not specifically remember, I was probably incited to write the first post by yisgood, so if you hate me - you know who to blame.
posted on November 20, 2000 06:24:48 PM new
EGADS Verymodern, you were dreaming if you thought that's what his name stood for.
I personally think all this EXPERT info flowing out is a bit much.
If I really really want to know what is going on, and I read all this fusing about what is and what isn't. I don't trust some EXPERTS WORD, I just go to Yahoo and search the TOS.....
posted on November 20, 2000 06:34:58 PM new
Yes, or someone's personal experience, not second and third hand. I have read repeatedly how there is no customer service for paydirect, but have had emails answered twice within 3 hours and a phone call I made answered and swiftly.
Then everywhere I go, I read the yisgood report on how dismal paydirect customer service is and I just gotta shake my head.
posted on November 20, 2000 06:48:36 PM new
I must be in the minority, I never have had troubles with Yahoo Pay Direct, they work fine for me and customers...
And if I did have a hang up I would be on the phone, or e mailing...
I have said before I don't watch how closely the darn monies are deposited I just ship.
But then if it was in the big bucks, I would just tell the customer, have to wait to see it in my account before I can ship...
I have a very happy camper customer base...
and I want to keep it that way.
posted on November 20, 2000 07:29:20 PM new
Yisgood, why do you even post on this board? You have nothing good to say about Yahoo, even implying on other boards that most thieves have Yahoo id's:
http://otwa.honesty.com/forums/Forum12/HTML/000002.html
I appreciate good, solid advice as much as the next guy, even opinions based on fact. Hearsay, I don't like, and the image that you are casting to novices trying to learn about yahoo is misleading.
posted on November 21, 2000 06:18:09 AM new
>> yisgood has posted in the thread and elsewhere that Y Paydirect allowed a buyer to "cancel" a payment to a seller leaving the seller out $800 because he had already shipped (a computer). <<
That particular story I only posted here. If you find it somewhere else, let me know and I will corret it.
>>yisgood - I read this Paydirect tirade of yours on 2 other sites<<
Again my tirade is based on the fact that they allow charge backs after stating that they don't. I have no reason to "correct" this since this is a fact. I got the information from Paydirect itself. Unless they are lying about that, too.
>>Yisgood, why do you even post on this board? You have nothing good to say about Yahoo, even implying on other boards that most thieves have Yahoo id's:
http://otwa.honesty.com/forums/Forum12/HTML/000002.html
I appreciate good, solid advice as much as the next guy, even opinions based on fact. Hearsay, I don't like, and the image that you are casting to novices trying to learn about yahoo is misleading. <<
It is NOT misleading. This information has appeared in numerous publications and in numerous reports. Why did Romanian George use over 45 Yahoo IDs to perform his $20,000 credit card scam? Why was the guy who stole $10k to $15k in a phony hard drive scam using Yahoo (after he was kicked off of ebay)? Why did the infamous Kuchar get booted off of ebay but was still posting on Yahoo even as the FBI, with Ebay's help, was looking for him? Because Yahoo makes it too darned easy to get a phony ID there and they don't care what anyone does. They take the "it's only a venue" to the ultimate extreme. And I happen to know for a fact that their credit card validation stinks. Someone showed me how he created an account using a fake name, a fake address, even a fake city and "validated" himself with someone else's credit credit card. He then posted an auction which read "this auction is a fake. I wanted to illustrate how badly Yahoo validates folks." Yahoo was very quick to shut that one down and made a big deal of posting on Seller Zone "that guy won't be back." First of all, as long as he has access to credit cards, which every store clerk, waiter, waitress etc does, he can be right back the next day. Second, they missed the point entirely. HE was not a crook. He was trying to warn them that they had a big security problem. And they didnt give a darn.
I have put up web pages specifically to warn people how to avoid fraud. I get at least a dozen horrow stories each day about scams. Almost all of them are yahoo sellers. As a yahoo seller, this bothers me. But I have gotten tired of emailing them to get back canned replies. So just like we are all doing with Paypal, all I can do is keep blowing the whistle and hope that someone will eventually notice.
But my real concern is watching how all the Paypal bashing started when they charged fees and how so many are quick to defend Yahoo. It makes me wonder if the thinking is that anything that charges is bad and anything that's free is good.
posted on November 21, 2000 09:45:17 AM new
This just in from EXCHANGEPATH:
Dear Auction Seller:
Thank you for contacting Exchangepath Customer Service. This email is
in response to your previous inquiry concerning our auction program.
We are currently investigating new services that would increase the
comfort level of both the buyer and seller when completing an auction
transaction. At the present time, however, we do not offer a formal
verified buyer/seller program. As a result, decisions on whether or not
to accept payment and ship merchandise are at the individual seller's
discretion. The following are a few guidelines that may assist you in
making those decisions:
General Operating Guidelines:
- It is the seller's responsibility to satisfactorily resolve customer
complaints concerning quality or receipt of goods.
- In case of a complaint or dispute, sellers must maintain reasonable
records documenting proof of delivery.
- Sellers are responsible for any lossesdue to charge backs or disputes.
Indicators of Possible Suspicious Activity:
- A customer attempts to pay for an item by sending partial payments
from more than one ExchangePath account.
- The "ship to" address is outside of the United States.
We hope this answers your questions and helps to clarify our program.
If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please "reply" to this
email.
Thank you for your interest in ExchangePath.
Lovely cut and paste answer eh? I was asking them to check a charge before I ship because the person charging is not using their own credit card. How are WE supposed to know whether the card is stolen? ExchangePath has the info to check it, NOT US!
posted on December 7, 2000 04:23:54 PM new
VM--boy do I fell BETTER! I too thought that yisgood stood for Yahoo is good. Thank goodness I am not the only one who took that ID wrong! It actually gave me warm fuzzies when I started listing on Yahoo to see someone who liked Yahoo so much that they made it part of their ID.
Yisgood So, how many of these frauds and scams have you personally had to face? And do you actually auction personally? Just wondering--I am not trying to be nasty, I just want to know where you are coming from.
posted on December 7, 2000 04:41:23 PM new
oh labbie if I was completely candid - it was even worse.
In my mind I read it "Y is God". LOL!
The worst is from the ebay board.
"papaswindy" used to post and I thought that was a fart joke. I was LMAO first time I saw that id. I had this picture of this woman in an apron standing on a wooden porch with a broom. Outside, see, to nab some fresh air. Papa was inside doing what he does.
Boy was I wrong, but I still laugh when I think about it.
posted on December 7, 2000 04:59:08 PM new
>>Yisgood So, how many of these frauds and scams have you personally had to face? And do you actually auction personally? Just wondering--I am not trying to be nasty, I just want to know where you are coming from.<<
My ID is just part of my first and last name. Unlike some, I havent found a need to hide. And it is the same ID that I use to auction on Yahoo.
I accepted CC directly and was hit with three charge back attempts. Fortunately, I had proof of shipping and all three were denied. I had quite a few scams tried on me over the years, stolen credit cards, ship to foreign countries, even the famous Nigerian scam was tried several times. Fortunately, I do a lot of reading and was forewarned. One of the reasons I post is to warn others. I personally have not lost a dime with any of the payment services but I can not in good conscience recommend that people use something I know is unsafe just because they paid me $5 to hook a sucker for them. Because of my web site and newsletter, I am now getting several letters a day from folks who were scammed through the use of these services. I was also contacted by a very large company that should soon be entering the payment service arena. It only goes to show that if people band together and make enough noise, eventually even the big guys will listen.
In general there are two ways to face a problem. There are those people who get mad and never do business with that establishment again with no explanation and there are those who explain why they are upset. Often, the establishment will correct the problem and business can resume, but that will never happen if no one speaks up. Most of my suppliers and clients are relationships that go back over a decade. When I don't hear from a client for a while, I drop them a line. When I make a mistake, I apologize and make up for it. I think my ratings indicate that I have some idea of how to run a business.
If I thought a business was completely beyond hope, I would just stop talking about it. There are auction sites and web sites that are just so bad I will never go back. If I think the problems can be corrected, I will keep bringing them up until someone listens. Paypal has started address verification. The sellers who kept bringing it up may have had something to do with it. Exchangepath has already posted that they are bringing up some of my suggestions.
Yahoo could be a really good site if they only had a human being pop in just once in a while to solve problems. It boggles my mind that they can spend millions running a site and stop just short of success. I would even be willing to pay if it would improve some of the major problems like the ease with which scammers get phony ids or deadbeat without penalty. And don't get me started on credit card fraud through payment services. This is a problem that could have been nipped in the bud months ago if some moron hadn't decided that folks placing orders via online credit cards have the right to keep their billing address a secret.
These problems would all be solved if we banded together and let them know we are not happy with substandard service. But the mantra seems to be "if you don't like it - leave and shut up" or "it's free - so live with it." I'm sorry, but neither of these makes good business sense.
posted on December 7, 2000 05:23:53 PM new
VeryModern
I wouldn't necessarily see this as a quandary, but I would tell my buyer that I only accept BidPay MO's for foreign orders, and tell them the truth that PayDirect will not guarantee none fraud on overseas payments and you can't take the risk. (You don’t have to go into the fact that they don’t protect you from fraud at all).
BUT, I have had 2 out of the country transactions which were totally legit, who paid for Express mailings which were very costly. I've had in States buyers who have forgotten their wife's birthday, and have paid almost half the value of an antique sewing machine having it sent Next Day delivery. I just had a man buy 2 lanterns which he wanted for a yacht party and paid more for 2nd day delivery than he did for the oil lamps, but he wanted them NOW - there are these people.
In over thousands of transactions we have only had one messed up out of the USA transaction, and that was early on in our experience when I took a Canadian MO, which our banks wouldn't honor, and the buyer, wouldn’t replace, - but that is the cost of learning and business.
posted on December 7, 2000 05:25:27 PM newVM You crack me up! ROFLMAO!
Y is God?! And Papaswindy? ROFL! Thanks for the hoot!
yisgood Thank you for the answer. You are indeed selling in an area that seems to bring out the scammers from what I have read. And, you are certainly entitled to your opinion on the different payment options, however, it would appear that you haven't had any bad experiences with these services personally.
I can say that I have had no problems with PayDirect or ExchangePath (knock on wood). They have worked smoothly and well so far.
PayPal is another story...and even that had nothing to do with a customer problem. Just PP's lack of integrity when they withdrew funds from my checking account without being authorized at a time when we could not even fund our accounts with our checking account and then they never caught the problem, nor did they apologize or even admit that there was an error. They just returned my money while their representative was all over the boards saying that PP had never made an error that was not the fault of the account holder.
Though you seem to draw horror stories to your site, those stories are few in terms of the total number of transactions on all auctions using these services per day. It's kind of like the ballot counting in Florida--there is a margin of error that you just can't get around no matter how many ways you count...
I do agree with you that it would be good if the payment companies would allow us to match the addresses of the buyer with the billing address of the card, though.
I do like to be pro-active in safeguarding my transactions and safeguarding the sites that I utilize whenever possible so that I can continue to utilize those valuable services.
posted on December 7, 2000 05:35:04 PM new
jwpc - I state in my auctions that I take int'l payment via Bidpay, cash or int'l mo and as far as I am concerned this in nonnegotiable. As long as the buyer uses one of these methods to pay, I will ship anywhere and any way that they want me to.
labbie - every now and then they have a "how did you get your name?" thread and only about 1/3 of the names come from where / how you might think. It's facinating really.
Mine is from the Benetton ad "Very Modern, Very Italian, and Very Good".
posted on December 7, 2000 07:08:09 PM new
Very Modern,
thanks for the laughs of the day,
papaswindy is a winner all the way. I love it.
And hum I like how you came up with your name.
"Mine is from the Benetton ad "Very Modern, Very Italian, and Very Good".
posted on December 8, 2000 06:03:50 AM new
VM Now we know all of your secrets! LOL
I had a picture of this person who lived in a very modern skyscraper with lots of glass and metal and hard surfaces--Now I find out you are a jeans kind of Modern! LOL
I think mine is pretty self explanatory, but just in case here:
Could anyone resist spoiling this?!!!!
Very interesting name choices. LOL
posted on December 8, 2000 08:55:26 AM new
jwpc--What a cutie! Sorry to hear of your loss!
The above picture is my new baby--3 years old now.
My special guy (lassie to my Timmy) went to the bridge in 1996. Only one is really quite like he was in a lifetime. He was a newfie/Border collie mix that I saved from a person who had him in a sack of rocks headed for the river. He made my life perfect for 13 wonderful years.
I also have an Aussie and she has a flock of cats. (you know Aussies have to have SOMETHING to shepherd! )
Lovely cut and paste answer eh? I was asking them to check a charge before I ship because the person charging is not using their own credit card. How are WE supposed to know whether the card is stolen? ExchangePath has the info to check it, NOT US! 
)