posted on May 11, 2001 01:55:35 PM new
That is mighty large of you Helen. Normally you don't have a problem with starting an argument. You're growing.
And anyway, what about my response prompts an argument? My opinion that pets and children aren't the same? Geez...
[ edited by Meya on May 11, 2001 01:56 PM ]
posted on May 11, 2001 02:14:59 PM newHave you ever tried to "help" an injured animal? It is very dangerous.
I know that for a fact. While your heart and intentions might be in the right place the animal doesn't know that. Try and get a caribou untangled from a seismic cable without getting your ribs broken. Be very careful dealing with any injured animal, including your pet dog.
posted on May 11, 2001 02:21:20 PM new
I just want to thank you all. We just got thru burying her. When I took her to the ER vet last night, and they said she was gone, I said, let me have her, I didn't want them to 'get rid of her'. And they said no charge, but I did leave them money as a donation, they were very helpful.
I know its my responsiblity for her. She did live on a farm for a very long time, someone brought her to me, because they found it on the grounds of an abandoned house inside a chain link fence. She had a huge tray of cat food and a big thing of water.
She was a toy poodle, I never liked poodles, but I couldn't say no. We took her to the vet, got her cleaned up, and she had lived with me the past 14-15 years.
And she ended up being my 'companian' yep.
We have a 1/2 acre fully fenced backyard now, but she wouldn't go out there, she would start quivering and shaking. I think she had still remembered being abandoned int that fenced yard, and was terrified of being penned up or something.
She was an indoor dog that went out side to 'do her thing'. My daughter keeps a rotweiller in the back, they got along fine, surprisingly.
My dog was about 7 lbs. We live on a long dead end/culdesac road, and she stayed here on the culdesac. I know, still no excuse.
I'm sure it was a neighbor, but all the neighbors liked her, and knew her.
Gravid, I know there are vicious dogs, and owners of these dogs should take responsiblity, but.... wow. Pretty harsh about your landlord running over a chained up dog? I don't know where you live, but in my neighborhood we don't have shootin wars
I do have a gun, being a single parent, my brother gave it to me. I don't know what I would do if faced with a vicious dog, I guess I wouldn't know unless it happened.
Yes whoever said, don't go near a hurt dog, is right, call animal control or the police to inform them about it.
Spazmodeous-that is awful, I am sorry to hear about yours and how it happened.
posted on May 11, 2001 02:46:28 PM new
"We are concerned about his failure to stop and try to help, just as he would be expected to do if he hit a young child running loose in the street."
I am sorry dog = people is wrong.
Dog = better than people is worse.
People who like dogs better than people have a serious serious defect relating to other people.
An animal may display affection but if you die and he can't get out of the house he will be eating you the second or third day. To say they offer unconditional love is a slur on love. You are saying love from people is less valuable because they expect something of you. Shouldn't they???
Loving something that can't talk back or disagree with you is a whole lot easier than loving a complex person that has it's own
thoughts and feelings and does not live for you to come home and run the can opener.
I was very very lucky not to hit anyone that night. I was 15 years younger and a lot meaner. I was protecting my wife. What I wanted to do so bad was shoot that fool dead that was letting the dog loose every night after it mauled 3 people. The dog has zero blame but that made it no less dangerous.
All the fault was the owner's.
That neighborhood was not a poor rundown area it was expensive lake front homes that now 15 years later are worth 2 and 3 million instead of 200,000 or 300,000. The duplex I was renting half of had big docks and boat houses on the lake for each side.
I am sure if someone told the lady whose little girl's face was half ripped off that you prefer the dog over her little girl she would be happy to agree you have no place among humanity.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:08:08 PM new
And believe it or not I felt bad for the person losing the dog until we started down this line of thought that a dog is superior to a child in value and it's love is better.
I can just see someone at a funeral for a little girl saying "Oh I know how you feel I lost my little poodle last year." to the Mother
Almost as sick as a preacher telling her God took her little girl - which I HAVE heard.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:16:23 PM new
To some people, dogs ARE their children. Maybe they didnt have any. Maybe they couldnt have any. Regardless, to judge love is wrong, no matter from whence it comes. So if I love my dogs better than people, there is something wrong with me? So be it.
ATTENTION ATTENTION! Something is wrong with me, because I love my pets. You have been forewarned.
You have sent me the most insulting note that
I have ever received in my entire life.
Please just put me on ignore.
I love my dog. That doesn't make me crazy.
Just for you, I will send you a little parting poem and then I do not want to hear
from you again 'K?
I feel that this poem is especially appropriate after the receipt of your note.
From Walt Whitman...
I think I could turn and live awhile with the animals....
....they are so placid and self=contained,
I stand and look at them sometimes half the day long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied...not one is demented with the
mania of owning things,
Not one kneels to another nor to his kind that lived thousands of years
ago,
Not one is respectable or industrious over the whole earth,
So they show their relations to me and I accept them;
They bring me tokens of myself....they evince them plainly in their possession.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:24:31 PM new
I had two dogs when a child. One had to be given away, my Dad hated it. The other, a neighbor or my father poisoned, couldn't prove which, but the vet said he was poisoned. The next door neighbor was always complaining about his barking, even though he was in all night. And my dad always hated dogs. Poison was put in the dog's food.
I love animals, and understand the deep love of them. However, to equate an animal as being 'better than a human' is a scary thought. The last televised incident of the woman mauled to death in front of her own apartment, shows how vicious some dogs can be. This happened in San Francisco. There, was an example of owner responsibility denial.
Even worse is the sympathy the animals got, and the implication by some that it was her fault? They claimed she should have stayed in her apartment? Lets get real here, we are talking human life. The example of a three year old as comparison? Another scary thought. I hope to avoid driving through neighborhoods in which those sentiments are prevalent.
.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:26:29 PM new
Hepburn- I think the difference between your affection for your pets and what others are describing may be of importance.
When you say you love your pets, do you also mean that you would place their well being above a humans or your own?
I love my children and would put their best interests above all others, even my own. Is this what "loving" a pet means?
All things considered, a human life outweighs an animals. That's why I run them over rather than swerve.
The example I used of a 3 year old human was to show that you need to show nearly as much responsibility as a dog owner as you do a 3 year old child. You have to think for them and take proper care of them.
[ edited by reamond on May 11, 2001 03:36 PM ]
posted on May 11, 2001 03:32:40 PM new
Yes, I would put the comfort and love of my animal above my own needs. Yes. Yes. Yes. So if that makes me nuts, then like I said, so be it.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:37:10 PM new
I can't believe what I'm reading....how can some of you be so insensitive to what others might feel? I, for one, do love my cats as much as I love(d) my family.....some people do feel this way but they're not anti-social or nuts, they're compassionate. Gee......
posted on May 11, 2001 03:38:46 PM new
Wait, this subject has become a little more divisive than necessary... I don't think any one of us, given a choice between losing a pet and losing a child, would choose the child. Yet we all love our pets. It's just a different kind of love.
Dogs can be viewed as "better" because they're not as complex as humans and don't usually display many of our negative traits (hate, vindictiveness, greed). On the other hand, the same fact that they're less complex makes them less smart than humans and therefore less valuable in our view. That's why comparing dogs to children isn't a valid comparison in the first place -- the "apples to oranges" thing. They're too different.
Those of you who disagree with each other here... I have a feeling you agree more than you think.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:43:55 PM new
"There, was an example of owner responsibility denial".
"Even worse is the sympathy the animals got, and the implication by some that it was her fault? They claimed she should have stayed in her apartment?"
It should have been pointed out that the owners of the dog are being tried for murder, and that the only claim of any wrongdoing by the victim has been made by the defendants.
I've seen no ezpression of sympathy for the dog in the case other than a few references to remarks that it is a shame that the dogs had been so trained and allowed to roam the area.
That clarified, I'd like to say that none of this conversation is appropriate to this thread started by a person who is a sensitive creature feeling a loss today.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:56:52 PM new
Thank you krs, Hepburn, HJW and the rest, I wasn't asking for sympathy or whatever, just
a question of why people do these 'hit and run' thing. I just believe, that someone can call animal control or whomever. I found her 10 or so minutes after letting her out.
We do have a large home, and I was in back, so if there was any screeching noises from a car, I can't hear from back here.
But I found her nonetheless
I don't know how this went off in different directions. Of course my child would come before my pet.
posted on May 11, 2001 04:08:53 PM new
Sometimes posters are like dogs -- they go around sh****ing anywhere they please. Was it really necessary to start posturing here?
posted on May 11, 2001 04:09:51 PM new
I read this thread this morning and didn't post to it because I felt bad. I was worried that it would turn into a "woulda coulda should", and I see it has.
Shelley, I'm so sorry about your dog. I don't know what I'd do if that happened to my Katy. She's my baby. And yes, I have kids too, and I guess it's not the same thing. But I couldn't handle it if my furry baby got run over. I just couldn't handle it, I love her so.
posted on May 11, 2001 04:31:10 PM new
I'm so sorry for your loss. I, too lost a very loving puppy a few months ago.
I have a miniature black lab and my husband brought home a little mini dobie who was about 4 months old. He was very smart, housebroken and never left the yard. We have no leash laws because we live in the country.
A woman from around the other side of the mountain has 3 dogs. Her dogs came around to our side and I guess lured my puppy to play with them, after which he followed them home.
My lab came home that evening for food, yet the other one never showed up. We looked for days until we got a call from a neighbor. She said she found the puppy and identified him through his rabies tag. She called the vet and he told her he was ours. The dog was lying squashed up against the guard rail at the side of the road. Another neighbor said she saw some kids driving around and they deliberately hit him hard enough (he was off the road) to squash him. As a matter of fact there were many mornings when I thought I saw him, but when I got closer, he looked more like a trash bag wrapped around the rail.
We were heartbroken. There is no excuse for people to do this to any animal. I've seen dogs, cats, deer, etc hit by cars and left to die at the side of the road. This is disgusting behavior.
Also, to the man who thinks he's brave enough to shoot someone else's pet, bullets travel miles. If you're going to shoot into the darkness you'd better have your target well in sight and marked. What if you would have shot a child or one of your own kids? Never, ever shoot blind. And to empty your clip and not even be able to shoot the dog? Some shooting lessons are in order I think. I'm glad we don't live near each other.
As far as that pit bull attacking people, that dog should have been put down right away. The owner and the judge or whomever is irresponsible. But it's not your place to kill someone else's animal. The animal has to be on your property and threatening your security before it's legal. If the animal ran off, you would have been found guilty and probably sent to jail.
posted on May 11, 2001 05:17:03 PM new
I have read this thread with mixed emotions. I wasn't going to post except to say I was sorry for the loss.
Many people become bonded to their pets on a level they never do other people. There are many reasons for this. The most common I feel is that with people there is an intellectual bond as well as emotional. With animals it often pure emotion.
I have had many losses in my life over the past several years. Each time I was grieved, but each time I was able to overcome that grief because I could work through it on an intellection level. I could understand how it happened and why it happened and I knew there was nothing I could have done to prevent the losses. I healed.
I lost my dog of many many years and I felt a grief unlike any grief I had ever experienced. Even trying to work through it on an intellectual level brought me no relief. I was overwhelmed.
I realized, that part of the reason I took it so hard was because I had failed her, I could have prevented her death. I was really overwhelmed by the guilt I felt at letting her down. They cannot reason for themselves, they cannot make decisions based on pros and cons. They do not think of the possible consequences of their choices or behavior. They are actually as innocent as a very small child. I have been told there is no loss to compare to the loss of a child. I hope and pray I never have to find that out for myself.
When someone experiences the loss of a pet and express their grief on the same level as that of losing a loved one, I certainly can relate. It is not something anyone should have to experience. I am glad not everyone who loses a pet has to go through that. My heart goes out to those that do.
posted on May 11, 2001 05:34:21 PM newThey cannot reason for themselves, they cannot make decisions based on pros and cons. They do not think of the possible consequences of their choices or behavior. They are actually as innocent as a very small child.
That's their nature, just as it is our nature to make mistakes. Don't torment yourself with guilt or blame. It was just fate.
posted on May 11, 2001 05:42:44 PM new
It has been my experience that every dog that has shared in my life has been very loyal to me and demanded very little in return (although I gave/give much to my dogs and cats).
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about the human beings that have been a part of my life. That includes "friends", siblings, my immediate family and even my own mother.
I'm sorry that you lost such a loyal friend, Near the Sea.
posted on May 11, 2001 05:43:26 PM new"That clarified, I'd like to say that none of this conversation is appropriate to this thread started by a person who is a sensitive creature feeling a loss today."
Nice change of pace.
NearTheSea
I too, am sorry for the death of your beloved dog. I still remember how it feels from years ago. I was responding to my surprise at comparisons between animals and pets as 'being better than humans'. It seems every thread of sympathy, or affection, brings out those that want to make it something else. I did not mean to be disrespectful of your feelings. If you took it that way, I offer my sincere apology to you.
