posted on October 10, 2000 10:52:15 PM new
I just received 2 payments within 30 minutes of one another through paypal, and the first one says,you have cash....and the usual message. The second one says the usual stuff but with a sentence...[b]To claim your money for this auction item, just click here
http://www.paypal.x.comXXXXXXXXXXXXX etc)
and complete the one-page registration form[/b]. I went to my Paypal account and this payment does NOT show up. So maybe it won't until I register? They have more damn tricks then houdini!
[ edited by furkidmom on Oct 10, 2000 10:54 PM ]
posted on October 10, 2000 10:57:42 PM new
Something is very strange. Why would you have to register if you have an account? Did you check the extra info on the email to see if it really did originate from paypal?
posted on October 10, 2000 10:59:13 PM new
furkidmom -- Wonder if the buyer sent the money to an address similar, but not exact, to yours?
By that, I mean ... My e-mail address is XXXXX@earthlink.net. However, my mail still arrives if someone sends it to XXXXX@earthlink.com.
I had a bidder send a PayPal to me at Earthlink.com, which I received the e-mail for (just like yours), but it didn't show up in my PayPal account because Earthlink.com was not registered with them.
What I did was to go ahead and register XXXXX@earthlink.com with PayPal, since it's a working e-mail address, and presto! There was my "missing" payment.
(edited for bolding ... and again for UBB!)
[ edited by thedewey on Oct 10, 2000 11:00 PM ]
posted on October 10, 2000 11:01:04 PM new
Sounds like a scam. Guessing the site linked to the email isn't really a PayPal site, but a site designed to harvest passwords.
posted on October 10, 2000 11:10:09 PM new
Well I just went back and checked the email from paypal, and the address on the header is not mine...at least not the last part. It is entirely different, but the email came to me!! How is that possible??? it says from my auction winner to [email protected], and the chartermi.net is not me, so how did it get to me at the correct addy? Man who is bartending? Gimmie a double!
and also...i did go to paypal and try to log into my accountand it will not let me log in....
[ edited by furkidmom on Oct 10, 2000 11:11 PM ]
and it also says this:
Note: If you already have a PayPal account, be sure to log in
at https://secure.PayPal.com/login, select the Profile subtab
and add this email address to your PayPal account. The money
will then be credited to your account.
gimmie a triple
[ edited by furkidmom on Oct 10, 2000 11:20 PM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 05:51:40 AM newNote: If you already have a PayPal account, be sure to log in at https://secure.PayPal.com/login, select the Profile subtab and add this email address to your PayPal account. The money will then be credited to your account.
This is simply incredible! PayPal is instructing users to add a non-existent email address to their PayPal account in order to collect money sent to the wrong email address. This one will bite them in the @ss BIG-TIME before the PayPal saga ends.
Email addresses are sort of like phone numbers. Once one is used, it's used. It is not only possible, but LIKELY, that at some point the non-existant email address that PayPal instructed you to add to your account will be assigned to a valid user. What a can of worms that will open up!
posted on October 11, 2000 06:10:20 AM new
SHEESH!!!! Gawd, let's not turn every internet glitch or user error into another PayPal scheme. Whoever suggested that the user who sent the money put in an incorrect email address is probably correct, or else the whole Internet is so screwed up that none of our email is safe. Think about it, folks....if the email addy isn't right for furkidsmom, or is so different that her incoming mail server should have recognized a problem, then how would she have received it??? She wouldn't--somebody would have received a bounceback, because the server wouldn't have accepted it. Common mistakes that allow the notification email to make it through to a user, but don't put the funds in their PayPal account are putting a period at the end of the email addy or substituting "net" for "com" or vice versa. If this person is your customer, then contact that person, alert them to the error and ask that they correct it. If not, then notify PayPal or refuse payment or WHATEVER, and make sure that the right person gets their money. Really a no-brainer. Guess that wouldn't be nearly as much fun though, would it?
That's a piece of information that is missing here--is the sender of the funds one of 'mom's customers??? I mean, is this from someone who actually made a purchase from her, and would have been expected to send her money, or was it from someone totally unknown to her?
Come on, guys. I know you're all in a frenzy to beat the living daylights out of PayPal, but if you can't present your information fairly, completely and accurately, then please spare us. BTW, what does this thread have to do with Ebay? Seems totally PP related, IMO, so it really ought to be over on the Partner Services board.
Edited to clarify the part about the incoming mail server.
[ edited by pickersangel on Oct 11, 2000 06:28 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 06:24:36 AM new"Email addresses are sort of like phone numbers. Once one is used, it's used. It is not only possible, but LIKELY, that at some point the non-existant email address that PayPal instructed you to add to your account will be assigned to a valid user. What a can of worms that will open up!"
Whoa! abingdoncomputers, you are in a panic without reason. First you can't just add an email unless you can confirm it. If my email address is [email protected] and I want to also add [email protected] I can do that as long as that email will reach me and I can click on the validation link. You can't add an email you can't receive.
I think you should examination some other services you've applauded that have the same net/com problem and see what happens when that mistake happens and what solutions are offered. Don't rush to judgement so fast.
posted on October 11, 2000 06:31:40 AM new
I suppose we can ASSUME that this is for an Ebay auction, and therefore pertinent, but we all know what that makes you and me.....
I believe that was the reason that AW staff stepped in and limited these PP bashing threads on this board several weeks ago, asking that all PP related threads be posted on the appropriate board. I suppose it's time to test the waters again.....
posted on October 11, 2000 06:41:51 AM newI think you should examination some other services you've applauded that have the same net/com problem and see what happens when that mistake happens and what solutions are offered. Don't rush to judgement so fast.
You obviously missed my point. Just because an email address isn't in use today doesn't mean that it won't in use tomorrow.
Example: Your email address is [email protected]. At the current time there is no valid email address of [email protected]. Someone sends a PayPal payment to me at [email protected] by mistake. No biggie, I just take PayPal's advice and add the [email protected] email address to my account. BUT... A little farther down the road, a happy user of ISP.net signs up for net access with them and is assigned the email address of [email protected] (this happens all the time). Now there is a VERY BIG PROBLEM! In effect, the new user's email address is already in use by someone else's PayPal account. You don't see a problem with that?
PayPal should do the right thing and make a few simple changes to virtually eliminate this problem instead of telling the user to add a non-existant email address to their PP account.
As far as all the other payment services havingthe same problem, this is true. But PayPal is the only service that INSTRUCTS its' users to register a non-existing email account.
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Oct 11, 2000 06:44 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 06:46:59 AM new
This happens all the time. If the customer types in the wrong e-mail addy but your last name and the addy is yours but without the correct isp- PayPal will forward to you to let you know the customer has paid but to an un registered account.
It used to be you would argue with your customer as they said they paid and it disappeared etc.
You need to inform your customer to go to his account and they will see that the payment is pending. They need to cancel and re-send to the correct address. Unless you also have the base address with the different isp - then sign up for it as an additional e-mail.
This isn't an anomally or a new PayPal out to get us scenario. That is why you should not be shipping based on the basic notification. The basic notification relies on your customer keying in the correct information. We do a 1x a day verification with our account prior to packing and shipping. Open the account history and see if the payment is indeed there - in your account - that is your guarantee the customer keyed the address correctly and the funds have truly transferred.
posted on October 11, 2000 08:16:02 AM new
Everyone,
I had locked this thread but it seems there have been new developments concerning this situation so I've decided to unlock it to permit continued discussion.
You can also find further information in the Partner Services Forum thread here:
posted on October 11, 2000 08:25:32 AM new
I've sent one of my buyers a paypal invoice that (when she started to use it) gave her the message that I"m unregistered. Now, I'm not unregistered, in fact, I'm verified, and I sent her the invoice.
So I sent her another one, and the same thing happened.
posted on October 11, 2000 08:27:21 AM new
Thanks Pat!
New Developments.....I was just on the phone with PayPal and they too seem to highly suspect a PASSWORD HARVESTING SCHEME. The techs cannot understand how an email could get to me with the incorrect addy. (will also check my local carrier to see if they merged with anyone and forgot to tell us....highly unlikely, but I will check just to be sure)
Mine is one addy , and the one it was sent to, but I received was only correct with my name and nothing more except the .net.. Now I just received this in my email, since I wrote to the person to cancel the payment since this is not my addy, (and please note, I am still getting email at the wrong
address, but only from the PayPal??? messages on this transaction.
Subject:
XXXX XXXXXX just canceled a payment to you
Date:
11 Oct 2000 14:46:40 -0000
From:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (my buyer)
To:
XXXXXXXXXXXXX (me with the wrong email addy)
Now it is very simple to channel email to another place, by just having an intercepting link between the real addy and the bogus one, using a 'bounce,' I think it is called. What a wonderful way for people to open up a bogus account, so that anything from the time I open the new email addy account and forward, everything going to my original account would
'bounce' to the new one, they would have my password, and collect all of the money from that day forward! My hubby worked for the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon for 21 years in Systems Communications, just
recently retiring, and if they can break into the codes and all of the password protected sites and firewalls there, what is to say they could not very easily do this? I thought this was relevant to all of us that
use the Ebay Outlook since I would say 90% use PayPal to collect on their auctions. Please understand people, my intent was not to alarm, but inform. We are all in this together, and this is what I thought this forum was all about. Just a word to the wise is sufficient. Personally, I love the ease of PayPal, and with Christmas coming up? Don't want to be without it, but also do not want any of us to get hurt in the process.
edited for my typos
[ edited by furkidmom on Oct 11, 2000 08:29 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 08:53:31 AM new
I had a similar problem occur this morning, but I don't see any incorrect information in the headers.
It is apparent from the headers that it did come from Paypal and that it was sent to an address which is not my primary Paypal address, but is registered to my account.
I just reviewed all of my previous payment notifications and they had all been sent to my primary email address, regardless of the email address on the account to which the payment was sent.
It sounds to me like Paypal may have a corrupted database, but who knows?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All rights reserved. All wrongs reversed.
[ edited by amalgamated2000 on Oct 11, 2000 08:54 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 08:58:44 AM new
That could be very possible amalgomated2000, and I for one want to use PayPal for this upcoming Christmas season, but not if all of my and everyones hard work is going to be channeled into someone elses account. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, is it not? Happy Trading everyone!
posted on October 11, 2000 09:00:11 AM new
I personally don't mind PayPal threads stated as specific problems, with complete facts, and updates on developments. IOW, keep them factual and unemotional (the title of this thread is a good example of how not to do that). Make the process educational, as an example of how to deal with a similar situation, should we ever encounter it.
Continually beating me over the head with the "PP is crooked" dead horse after giving me partial facts is not a good way to build credibility with me, nor will it convince me that there is a legitimate problem which someone wishes to resolve.
--BEGIN QUOTE
Now it is very simple to channel email to another place, by just having an intercepting link between the real addy and the bogus one, using a 'bounce,' I think it is called. What a wonderful way for people to open up a bogus account, so that anything from the time I open the new email addy account and forward, everything going to my original account would
'bounce' to the new one, they would have my password, and collect all of the money from that day forward!
--END QUOTE
Please explain this further. If someone were "channeling" your email to a different addy, then how would you receive it? Are they forwarding the notifications to you or using some kind of BCC: to make it look as though the email was sent directly to you? Or are you saying that someone may have figured out a similar technique for depositing funds sent to your PP account into a new one with the wrong addy in the email you received? Have you tried sending an email to the email addy to see if you get a bounceback? Except for the fact that I can't explain how you got the email, I still question the possibility that the buyer input a wrong address. Here's another thought--the possibility of buyer fraud has already been raised. Suppose the buyer opens the account with an email address that he is able to verify and sends payment to that account He then Forwards you a copy of the payment notice, removing all signs that it is a forwarded email. If you ship the item without questioning, he then claims the payment. If you later file any claim against him for non-payment, he has a receipt to show that "you" accepted payment. If you DO check on payment, he then says "OOPS" and sends it to the proper account (if you're lucky). Did you check the expanded headers on the email? Did it actually come from the PP server?
posted on October 11, 2000 09:08:58 AM newHe then Forwards you a copy of the payment notice, removing all signs that it is a forwarded email.
Unless the scammer has access to Paypal's mail server, it is not possible to remove all signs that the email was forwarded. In my case, the email did come from Paypal's servers, and it certainly sounds like furkidmom's did as well.
I can't believe that anyone is suggesting that this is "not a legitimate problem" and that we would rather complain about it than solve it.
I just want my money. It's $95 so far, but I'm expecting to receive several hundred more today. If there is a similar problem with those payments, it will definately put me in a bind.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All rights reserved. All wrongs reversed.
[ edited by amalgamated2000 on Oct 11, 2000 09:13 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 09:14:39 AM new
pickersangel> Are they forwarding the notifications to you or using some kind of BCC: to make it look as though the email was sent directly to you? Or are you saying that someone may have figured out a similar technique for depositing funds sent to your PP account into a new one with the wrong addy in the email you received?I am not sure how it happend, but the last comment of yours in this quote seems accurate. That is why I came to the boards to see if anyone else was having the same problem. If not, then I would have thought it might be a glitch with my isp. But this has never happened to me before, so I came to the people that might know something! I don't know how to check expanded headers, but will put the question to hubby when he gets home. I was not personally"Continually beating me over the head with the "PP is crooked" dead horse after giving me partial facts is not a good way to build credibility with me, nor will it convince me that there is a legitimate problem which someone wishes to resolve." trying to beat you over the head, as in the original post, I cannot find a place where I addressed you at all. Now that is the original post, just so we get that clear.
[ edited by furkidmom on Oct 11, 2000 09:17 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 09:47:04 AM new
These are the facts as I understand them thus far, please offer corrections as appropriate:
1. furkidmom has received a notification for PayPal payment to an account that is very definitely not her account, with no payment is showing in her PP account. This payment has since been cancelled by the buyer, with notification by PP of the cancellation also received at her email address. Whether or not these notices actually came from the PP servers has not been verified yet.
2. amalgamated has received notification of a payment to his/her secondary account address at that address, even though these notices are usually received at the primary address. No payment has been credited to his/her account. S/he has verified that this notice did come from the PP server. (I've had one payment to my secondary address, which is my registered Ebay address, and the notice was received at that address. However, the address was not registered with PP at that time. If someone wants to send $$$ to [email protected] to see where the notice goes with both accounts registered, I'll check this out for you. LOL!!)
3. Both transactions involved buyers from valid transactions for both parties.
furkidsmom--Every user on the boards who reads the PayPal threads (and I do, because some of them are educational to me as a PP user, as this one is turning out to be) is being beaten collectively over the head with that "PP is crooked" dead horse; however, I can only speak for myself. Nowhere did I state that I was targeted specifically. As I said, I don't mind someone raising the issue of a problem and discussing resolution, but I'd like to keep that discussion on a factual level. I'd prefer to consider all the possibilities, rather than immediately assuming that it's an intentional action on the part of PP or that PP has any responsibility at all.
amalgamated--I never said that this is not a legitimate problem. In context what I said was that an emotional presentation of partial facts does nothing to convince me that a legitimate problem exists, and there does seem to be more interest on the part of some posters in continually beating up on PP than in resolving the issues. There is obviously a problem of some sort in the case of your situation and that of furkidsmom, either buyer produced or server produced or database produced.
posted on October 11, 2000 10:12:29 AM new
pickersangel
"Continually beating me over the head with the "PP is crooked" dead horse after giving me partial facts is not a good way to build credibility with me, nor will it convince me that there is a legitimate problem which someone wishes to resolve."
1) I didn't know that these PayPal threads are aimed at you. If you don't like them, ignore them.
2) Many of the threads that I have read here have discussed legitimate concerns that some of the cheerleader (I used to be one) crowd completely ignore. Maybe we don't have all the facts but we seldom ever do on any of the issues that we discuss here.
"what does this thread have to do with Ebay? Seems totally PP related, IMO, so it really ought to be over on the Partner Services board."
hmmm.. If you use PayPal to pay for or to accept payment for Ebay auctions, then PayPal matters have quite a bit to do with Ebay. I have seen quite a few threads that really are not about Ebay specifically (threads about the USPS, Threads about thrift stores, ect, ect,...) and no-one seems to mind.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 11, 2000 10:14 AM ]
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 11, 2000 10:15 AM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 10:40:59 AM new
Can we stick to discussing the issues and not attack other posters personally? We are entitled to hold and express our opinions, and that's what I've done, which is why my statements are expressed the way they are. Sorry that the initial presentation of the situation wasn't convincing to me, but there's no reason for anyone (other than perhaps the originator of the thread) to be offended by that. Isn't the purpose of "discussion" to further understanding? The originator of the thread and the other user in a similar situation have contributed to our understanding by providing facts as they receive them. Personally attacking other posters because we dislike their opinions or the way they're expressed doesn't add to the understanding at all.
posted on October 11, 2000 11:05:13 AM new
...BTW, it's pickersangel, but I'm sure that the error was unintentional not intended to be inflammatory....
