posted on October 18, 2000 05:31:51 PM
I believe I know at least one reason why eBay has been down...they have put a warning to buyers about the music or movie item they are about to bid on. After the buyer puts his bid in but before he confirms it with his password he now see this:
"Attention Bidders:
The following information is provided to help you avoid selling a prohibited or potentially infringing music-related item. This information is provided for all music listings and in no way implies anything about the listing you are currently submitting.
eBay Policy: Copies of music on CD-R may not be listed on eBay, unless you are the copyright owner of the music (and you state this in your auction).
Sales of any unauthorized copies of music, including live or bootleg recordings, probably is a copyright infringement .
Sales of movie trailers, “promotional” music and movie items may be prohibited by the copyright owners.
Offering to sell infringing or prohibited items may result in legal liability, the ending of your listings and/or suspension from eBay."
Now I agree that CD-Rs are illegal unless it is sold with an original copy like a tape or LP but "promotional" items are an unclear area since they are often given away by radio stations and movie theaters.
posted on October 18, 2000 05:38:29 PM
Why would that pop up for bidders when it talks about listing items and selling items. I know it pops up for sellers, and it has for about a year now.
posted on October 18, 2000 05:58:36 PM
Er, YEP I do *indeed* think it will scare bidders away!! I sell CD's myself and just wrote (what will probably end up getting a canned response) an email to support@ebay asking them what the heck were they *thinking* putting that to the attention of bidders when it's obviously still worded for the seller?? Also, wondering if it was a kink, I went to the point of reviewing a bid on a couple of my auctions, just to make sure it wasn't some weird funky ebay thang, and I got the message. Right in bright, blood red lettering. Unbelievable. No wonder bids aren't up as high as usual this week. Thanks for bringing it to my attention; CD's are half my livelyhood!!
posted on October 18, 2000 06:41:41 PM
I got a similar message the other day when I bid on a clothing item. I thought it was weird, but it didn't stop me from bidding.
posted on October 18, 2000 07:21:23 PM
I just saw it. I think it will scare bidders away. Some may panic and think that bidders are guilty and subject to prosecution if the item turns out to be illegal or improper.
posted on October 18, 2000 08:10:09 PM
"promotional" items are an unclear area since they are often given away by radio stations and movie theaters."
In the case of Emmy Consideration tapes, which are listed by the 100's on eBay, they are given to Academy members ONLY for their use - they are NOT allowed to be rented, sold, or resold. Nothing unclear about this.
I hope this DOES scare potential buyers away. Maybe then the sellers will stop this illegal activity (that eBay won't due to the potential loss of revenue if they did).
DWest - buyers of this stuff ARE liable for prosecution, same as the sellers, particularily if they have been warned prior to making a purchase. Essentially, they are buying stolen items ...
posted on October 18, 2000 08:26:22 PM
I saw a warning similiar to this last night when I was bidding on a leather purse. It wasn't a "designer" item - nothing special. The message kind of pi**ed me off for a minute. I was wondering if I had somehow screwed up and was placing a bid on the wrong item. I had to use the back button to be sure I was still bidding on the purse--what with eBay being so screwy lately--I didn't want to end up bidding on software by mistake. Glad I wasn't sniping.
Those warnings would probably scare a newbie away--especially after all of the bad press about online auctions.
posted on October 18, 2000 08:38:01 PM
If you go to many thirft stores or record stores in Los Angeles, they will have tons of promo and consideration items for sale, but I've never heard of the MPAA or RIAA trolling around there for these items. (of course it would be REALLY bad press to arrest the staff of the Jewish Women's Association, or one of the other religious thirft shops). Not to mention the Academy members themselves who sell this stuff at their own garage sales.. Only when the internet is involved does it suddenly become a horrible crime.
Promo & Consideration items are marketable because they are rare, and they value will only increase if the MPAA and RIAA play hard ball.
Let them serialize the tapes and arrest the academy members if they want to stop the flow of illegal tapes.
posted on October 18, 2000 08:51:06 PM
RB,
I don't think I've made myself clear. My items are all legal and proper, but the bidder will not be completely sure of that until he or she receives it in the mail. As a consequence, bidders may have second thoughts and not bid to avoid the hassle.
By the way, are you aware of any purchasers of single items being prosecuted? The seller is the one the authorities are after. One way to get them is to dry-up the market.
Also, I've been reading your posts concerning bootleg items and your efforts to contact the various studios to alert them about the problem. Is it possible that ebay's notices to the bidders are the fruit of your labor?
posted on October 18, 2000 09:38:59 PM
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK OF THIS?
I HAVE A PROMO CD SINGLE FROM A SMALL LABEL THAT IS NO LONGER IN BUSINESS. THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WOULD PROBABLY PAY $10 FOR IT SINCE IT HAS A COUPLE OF RADIO EDITS.
IS IT ILLEGAL TO SELL IT?
WHEN DOES A PROMO ITEM NO LONGER PERFORM IT'S DUTY TO INTRODUCE SOMETHING NEW TO THE WORLD?
DO THE FEW PROMO ITEMS THAT ARE RELEASED FOR ANY GIVEN PROJECT REALLY HURT SALES OR DO THEY ENCOURAGE THE FAITHFUL UNTIL THE NEXT PROJECT COMES OUT?
IT WE CAN'T SELL THEM, THEN DO WE JUST THROW THEM AWAY IF WE NO LONGER WANT THEM?
DOES THE RECORDING INDUSTRY JUST ISSUE A BLANKET CLAUSE THAT YOU CAN'T SELL PROMOTIONAL ITEMS AND THAT'S THAT OR IS THERE PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE SELLING THEM?
IF RECORD COMPANIES WANT THESE ITEMS BACK, WHERE DO WE SEND THEM? WHO PAYS POSTAGE? WHY WOULD THEY PAY PEOPLE TO EVEN CONTROL IT SINCE THEIR JOBS DEPENDS ON WHERE THEIR ARTISTS ARE CHARTING ON BILLBOARD THIS WEEK?
IF I'M CONFUSED AS A SMALL TIME SELLER, THEN BUYERS WILL BE AS WELL.
YOUR THOUGHTS ARE WELCOMED!
Sorry for typing in all CAPS...
[ edited by CCMFAN on Oct 18, 2000 09:39 PM ]
[ edited by CCMFAN on Oct 18, 2000 09:41 PM ]
posted on October 18, 2000 10:09:35 PM
Well I'll give you an optimistic opinion...
If the label is out of business, and if the label was never a member of a protective guild like the RIAA, then it it unlikely that anyone with legal standing in monitoring ebay for their promo items.
The big labels don't care about the artists, they simply want to be paid every time their property is played or transfered. They even feel that reselling a used consumer CD, Tape, Record, et al is wrong, but they have not gotten congress to make it illegal yet.
"I don't think I've made myself clear. My items are all legal and proper, but the bidder will not be completely sure of that until he or she receives it in the mail. As a consequence, bidders may have second thoughts and not bid to avoid the hassle."
I understand. Perhaps you could word your descriptions a little differently to reassure your buyers.
"By the way, are you aware of any purchasers of single items being prosecuted?"
As a matter of fact, yes. I know two people who have purchased single item bootleg videos off eBay who have had their entire video collections (and taping equipment) seized. These are generally honest people who responded in good faith to the lawyers request to turn in the sellers. I doubt if the MPAA would spend a lot of time chasing down eBay sellers, but if I was one of these sellers, I don't think I would like to have to hide, continually change my ID, and continually have to look over my shoulder to make sure a lawyer is not knocking on my door.
"Also, I've been reading your posts concerning bootleg items and your efforts to contact the various studios to alert them about the problem. Is it possible that ebay's notices to the bidders are the fruit of your labor?"
Well, I'd like to think so, but based on eBay's attitude towards the huge number of illegal items being sold through their venue (in many different categories), I doubt it. As you have probably read, I have been trading tapes for almost 2 decades now. I have 'met' a lot of folks from the MPAA and we keep in close contact. I am not about to risk my collection, so I periodically check with my contacts to find out what I can and can't do. I have had, ahem, a 'few' heated arguments with these guys and their legal firms - I don't agree with some of the laws like not being able to sell Emmy tapes, having a commission set ratings for movies, and on and on. I also believe that the only way this will change is through discussion, not blatant disregard.
eoi - you're not suggesting that the JWA is above the law are you? When did US law become tiered
posted on October 19, 2000 08:07:45 AM
And FYI, here's the canned response I expected and got from ebay (in less than 12 hours.. guess I ought give them credit for that!)
Hello,
Thanks for your letter.
The informational messages that you are seeing have been instituted to
educate both sellers and buyers and hopefully offer some degree of
protection.
If you have suggestions on how we can improve the situation, or
recommend a change in policy, I encourage you to write to:
[email protected].
I hope this has helped address your questions, but if you require any
clarification or have any follow-up questions, please don't hesitate to
write again.
