posted on November 17, 2000 10:07:45 PM
I was just browsing through one of my favorite things, Nippon..!
Was checking specific XXX sets and found 7 reproductions: 4 sets of one mold, 2 of another a one of a third mold. All but one seller, mentioned it was reproduction...Is this happening in many other categories? I really feel bad for the people bidding, as they probably do not know. Not nice at all...Frankly, it bugs the heck out of me....
posted on November 17, 2000 10:20:09 PM
It's everywhere Shosh, and has been for some time now. Same as the various shops & shows across the land. Ya gotta know yer stuff these days, or have $$$ to burn.
posted on November 17, 2000 10:20:53 PM
If a seller mentions that it is a repro in his/her auction page then I don't see anything wrong with it.
I have to wonder, when the others that do not mention in their auction pages that the item is a repro sell and then send the repro items to their buyers and if their buyers then realize they have been duped then how do these sellers handle this.
posted on November 17, 2000 10:31:41 PM
I can't understand that they do not run a Search first...If they had, both sellers and bidders would have found that there are gazillions out there...Some seller said they had bought it XXXXX amount of years ago! Bull....!
OK...Venting out of the way... Off to my hot chocolate...Nite all...
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 17, 2000 10:46:57 PM
Many of the buyers of the repro items have very low feedback. I do not think they understand how to do a complete search as yet. Many are buying reproduction depression glass.
There are sellers of antiques who regularly put a few repros in with each of their auctions and slowly filter them out that way. They are quite vague in their descriptions but must have containers of these items as they show up on lots of their auctions over and over again.
We have sold some repros in our shop over the years and they are always in the giftware section, separate from the antiques and collectibles. Some people only like to buy "new stuff" and if they like the color, etc. there is a good market for certain items.
posted on November 17, 2000 10:47:13 PM
There is a local antique mall, about 3 miles from me, where the repros are slipped in side by side with the authentic stuff, and it is never noted as such on the tag.
That's got to be illegal. It is certainly underhanded.
posted on November 18, 2000 04:10:40 AMShosh, you've got to get out of those high-end antique shops once in awhile Gift/junk/collectible shops and flea markets are FULL of this stuff, usually mixed in with the real McCoy (literally). Fortunately, at least for somebody with the least discernment, mixing it in with the real stuff has the effect of showing up the glaring quality/age differences between the two....which I'm sure the sellers do NOT intend! 'Course, you can't see that in an auction listing.
posted on November 18, 2000 10:44:56 AM
Shoshanah - a sad thing is, real live auctions and estate sales are "salted" with this stuff and dealers buy them not realizing that they are being snookered. Then the dealers sell them as real antiques... It pays to really know your stuff!
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on November 18, 2000 10:57:52 AM
Tons of 'real' antiques that exist today were reproductions in their own era---
Repro isn't a new thing !!!!
But for the new repros---lots of people want to own the style of a era ---but don't want to pay the $$$. As long as it is sold as such--what is the problem??? Maybe somebody want Nippon repro plates to use for their everyday dishes--I don't see a crime in that---just an appreciation for something beautiful and wanting to use it likeness on a regular basis
[ edited by Zazzie on Nov 18, 2000 11:02 AM ]
posted on November 18, 2000 11:12:06 AM
Reproductions are Just one of the reasons knowing What you sell is important for sure.
I Rarely will buy from a peice or set of anything at a flea market garage sale or Antique store if im not sure or I dont have someone with me who does know the difference.
Even after that I try to see if I can find at least one or more person who can comfirm the Item is Orginal before listing it as such I try not to assume its old we all know what assumeing leads too.
I dont bid on a lot of antique glass or china on line but for the most part when I am surffing auction I see lots of stuff with reproduction in the title and description.
posted on November 18, 2000 11:14:09 AM
Repros in an of themselves are not a bad thing--hey you can get yourself some lovely dessert dishes!
The problem is that the fact that they are reproductions is not marked under glaze. so while they come over from the country of import with a paper sticker stating they are reproductions, often that paper sticker gets removed, and two or three owners later it becomes Great-Aunt Agnes's cherished limoge set.
If they were marked under glaze, they would be a lot easier and much more acceptable to everyone, I think. As it is, it is killing antique dealers dealing in the real thing. Look at everyone who got spooked over Roseville. I don't like Roseville pottery; but a man I know who does, and deals in it, once told me, "The bad reporductions are the ones they are catching. There are good ones getting through."
posted on November 18, 2000 11:48:38 AM
I was browsing through some of the glass and porcelain categories a few nights ago, and just gave up in frustration. Seems as if half the stuff I clicked on turned out to be repro. There is no way that this is not hurting the sellers who offer only the real thing. Someone who gets taken tells their friends - "Don't buy on eBay; look what happened to me."
Makes me wish there was a category just for sellers who guarantee that what they are offering is NOT a reproduction. Let those who can't do better than "I was told that this . . . ." or "I don't know the age, but I bought it from the estate of an 80-year-old" list in a BUYER BEWARE category!
posted on November 18, 2000 11:56:45 AM
Well, here I am this morning, with my cough syrup!
That there are reproductions is not the point. I have a few thousand shows under my belt and nearly 3 decades in this business. However, in the Shows I used to partake in, the show committee made the dealers take repros down, OR put a sign that this particular section carried reproductions. And if dealers did not, they were booted out, on the spot.
So, the real point is deception or intent to deceive. Fooling buyers, by not divulging the truth in the listing is wrong, just as not divulging a damage, or minimizing a damage by photographing only the good side is wrong; I am in a good position to fool the public, being a pottery restorer, but somehow, I kinda like my good reputation; makes me feel good. Have we forgotten how to spell "integrity"?
posted on November 18, 2000 12:39:22 PM
As someone else noted, repros have been with us for ages. Some dealers are unscrupulous, some get snookered with them just like anybody else.
Dealers and collectors alike need to know what they're buying and who they're buying it from.
That said, no one should throw this in ebay's lap. Sure, it's pretty easy to find sellers listing this stuff as authentic -- but you'll find the same situation at any flea market in America.
We could have eliminated a major part of the problem about 3 years ago when, was it the FTC?, was considering amending import laws to include the requirement that manufacturers include a permanent date marking on imports. Of course, in their wisdom, and despite letter-writing campaigns by major antique dealer associations and others, the government decided that the status quo was good enough.
posted on November 18, 2000 05:03:10 PM
I have been an antique dealer for over 30 years and there are still a lot of items that I have trouble in certifying as antique.Does everyone expect the dealer to be an authority in every field? That isn't possible! Reproductions have been around forever and in almost every field. There are places (countries) that seem to specialize in mass producing "antiques". India, Indonesia and Philippines manufacture antiques on a daily basis. They use all kinds of tricks like burying metal items in poultry dung for a month to age it, to sanding the base of glassware to give it age.
Buyers seem happy enough to pay $50 for an item they know should be worth $500 (if it was an antique) and then complain because it isn't. If a buyer pays top dollar for an item that turns out to be a reproduction then he has been duped and has every right to complain. If, however, he only paid the price of a reproduction for it .... what does he expect?
posted on November 18, 2000 09:45:35 PM
Anyone weather you be a dealer or collector.
Learn about what you are about to buy or pay the price. The same thing that is happening now has happen for many years, except today we have more collectors then years ago.
So I would think that there is nothing wrong with buying a repro. except you should know
it's a repro. If a seller don't mention to you that it's a repro. Your the one that would have to learn the difference between the orig. and repro.
And believe me, you know the difference when you touch it, and look at it good. But on auction it is much harder to tell. My advise
is for you to ask many question of the seller and check in books and read about orig. antiques. In a few words...DO YOUR HOMEWORK, don't expect someone else to do it for you.
In my shoppe I sold orig. Roseville and repro. Roseville, and a collector of Roseville came in to purchase a vase, he looked at them and said "Tell me, which ones are orig. So it goes to show you, now it's even hard for collector's to know the difference, and why.....because THEY DIDN'T DO THERE HOMEWORK......
posted on November 19, 2000 08:42:01 AM
Shouldn't any buyer Email the seller before bidding and get an Email answer stating item is an original or a repro? Then you have proof for returning item or reporting fraud if necessary....just a thought...
Goingslow
posted on November 19, 2000 04:45:06 PMdana71...In an ideal situation, yes, that would be wonderful...However, there would be no need to check with seller if seller mentioned up-front that the item is a repro. The problem comes when a seller says he/she bought item at least "30" years ago, when this particular repro did not come about until about 5 years ago , which I what I encountered.
That is "intent to deceive".
If someone is active with a specific Collector Club, one can see the deceit 500 miles away...
I have no problem with repros...they do have their place in a market...But they should be described as such...
posted on November 19, 2000 10:19:22 PM
"gosh shosh" I hope you didn't mean me when you said people claim they bought it 30 years ago when it's a new repro. I swear I bought the fake Mary Gregorys 30 years ago or maybe even more. I have a sister in Reno, Nevada & I gave them to her years ago. She just recently moved to a small condo & sent me boxes of things that belonged to our parents, mostly because in the event that anything sould ever happened to her (she is 68) she wanted family treasures back on the East Coast where I and my children live. She does not have any children. The Mary Gregorys were among the other things. Trust me, they are fakes, but they are truly over 30 years old. I forgot all about them & it was suprized to see them again.
PS. I really don't think you meant me, but it was funny that you should pull that # out of a hat. I had to laugh because of my post to you.
Jane
posted on November 19, 2000 10:53:41 PM
Michelle, can you delete one more !!! This is so funny. I kept getting the AW is to busy message. So I just kept hitting the continue button untill I finally gave up.
I didn't think I had posted anything. Ten times WOW.
posted on November 19, 2000 11:13:16 PMMichelle ..... Just wanted to say, good catch on the Dr. Ellis post, I hope you & I were the only ones that read it. Geesh.
posted on November 19, 2000 11:18:41 PM
Michelle, I'm still getting the message:
"The publisher of www.auctionwatch.com is too busy to use right now" So I hit the post reply button & keep getting the same message. There is no indication that my reply was posted, but seems like it was.
I kept doing it because I didn't mind the wait, I usually only try a few times & then give up, but I am reading Michael Chrichton's Timeline while I'm waiting. It's so funny that it posted 15 times. It will do it again for sure so I will assume that it posted & will just hit reply once.
Enough is enough, right.
Jane
Not nice at all...Frankly, it bugs the heck out of me....
Off to my hot chocolate...Nite all...
Gift/junk/collectible shops and flea markets are FULL of this stuff, usually mixed in with the real McCoy (literally). Fortunately, at least for somebody with the least discernment, mixing it in with the real stuff has the effect of showing up the glaring quality/age differences between the two....which I'm sure the sellers do NOT intend! 'Course, you can't see that in an auction listing.