posted on November 18, 2000 05:17:40 PM
A little over a month ago I sold 3 items to the same bidder. Received payment, shipped no problem. Four days ago I left feedback and deleted the photos. Friday I receive an email from the bidder saying the items are not as described and he wants compensation. He claims he has been out of town and was unable to email me earlier. He has been able to bid on other auctions. I just don't want to get into it with him and I feel that I am being held hostage and that three negs are coming. Any ideas??
posted on November 18, 2000 05:22:22 PM
I really sympathize with the anxiety you must be feeling. Does he want to exchange all three items? If not fix the one and return all of his postage and he won't have any reason to leave you a negative. Be extremely extremely apologetic for him not being satisfied with the merchandise and offer him full refund. At this point this is all you can do if you don't want to get three negatives and this is a small price to pay for your reputation. You can always relist the items later. I don't see any other way out of this one really.
posted on November 18, 2000 05:25:49 PM
Like the wise old seller said: "Never leave feedback without first receiving feedback - Part of customer's job is to report satisfaction or not with item - You cannot evaluate a customer until they have finished job. Do you pay home builder final payment before house is finished? Not if you are wise business person"
Then he returned to his mountaintop for a bowl of rice...
posted on November 18, 2000 05:27:40 PM
Well I dont know what to tell you to do if they neg you but I wouldnt worry to much on it.
If it was my sale I would write back letting the buyer know that more then 30 days has past and a 30 days money back garentee is even more then most offer this sale is over 90 days old now end of story.
In my mind it would be rude to mention his bidding in the last 90 days but heck if your in the mood this might open this buyer eyes to the fact that his activtiys on line can be traced by anyone who cares to know what they are.
you Might even get an Im sorry reply emailed the wrong seller or some other excuse that would just end the whole situation but definately call them on this all the way.
posted on November 18, 2000 10:10:19 PM
In your case, I would tell him how sorry you are about how he feels, and insist that he return all 3 items to you for a full refund.
It is unfortunate that this transaction took so long before he contacted you, but since he is holding 3 aces and you have a mixted up hand, (if you know what I mean) keep the piece and do things a little different next time when someone buys more then one item.
I know how hard it is to be nice when in your heart you know whats happening, but I feel you need to show that you are the better person.
Just a reminder.....KEEP YOUR COOL !!!!
posted on November 18, 2000 11:19:33 PM
IF you end up taking the items back, don't forget to file for FVF. This will not only 'black flag' the buyer, but will get your money back from ebay.
"since he is holding 3 aces and you have a mixted up hand"
On the contrary, killerthecat might not be holding 3 aces, but they hold 3 kings and a wild card. Might get 3 negs, but after 3 FVF reimbursements from ebay, ebay will suspend that buyers account. You might want to mention this to the buyer.
And there is no better qoute than what aggiebonfire said,
"Never leave feedback without first receiving feedback - Part of customer's job is to report satisfaction or not with item - You cannot evaluate a customer until they have finished job. Do you pay home builder final payment before house is finished? Not if you are wise business person"
posted on November 19, 2000 05:14:32 AM
First of all, what I'm about to say is in no way a personal attack against you and please don't take it that way. Many sellers chose to leave feedback upon receipt of payment. That having been said...
This is a perfect example of why feedback should not be left until the transaction is completed. You are now at the mercy of this bidder, who most likely intentionally waited until he saw that you had left positive feedback before complaining. He will now try to extort a "discount" after the fact. I have had this happen 3 times in the past. The sad thing is that no matter how you handle this at this point, the feedback that you left for this transaction will do NOTHING to reflect how this transaction went. Future potential sellers will have no way to know about this and they will likely be taken too. If a bidder likes to pull this kind of stunt, I hope that prior feedback will let me know this.
Moral of the story: Feedback should reflect the entire transaction, not just timely payment. I cannot stress this point enough. I'm not saying never leave feedback first in a transaction. I almost always end up leaving feedback first. What I am saying is feedback (IMO) should never be left until the transaction is complete. When is the transaction complete? When the buyer informs me that he/she is happy with the transaction or allows me the opportunity to make him/her happy with the transaction.
posted on November 19, 2000 07:23:51 AM
Thank you for all of your thoughts. I am not going to take the items back. I have deleted the photos and have no way of making sure I would be receiving my original items back. I shouldn't have left feedback and should have listened to that little voice that said from the begining this was strange. I am going to email the buyer and tell him that if he would have let me now when received we could have worked this out. Now sorry, it is too late. If he negs he negs. Just another lesson learned. Thanks again
posted on November 19, 2000 08:32:35 AM
KillerCat:
You have not indicated here what your feedback rating is, but if he does neg you, yes, the damage is limited to -1 point because he is only 1 unique user, but people reviewing your feedback file will see all three comments with their ugly bright red COMPLAINT indicators. There is no question this will hinder bidding at worse, and at best cause you a bunch of wasted time explaining to anybody who asks what happened. And your garden variety bidder will relate himself to the complaining buyer, even if unconciously. It's a radical concept but used everyday - Skin Shedding. If your feedback is not that high yet, or if having a bigtime feedback # is not important for what you sell (which beleive me it isn't for many items), just go to Ebay's home page and click new account - you can use the same credit card # as your old account - And suddenly the Cat is reborn with a fresh, clean immaculent record. Buy a few cheap items, pay the same day with Paypal or similar, and you'll be back to a decent rating in no time.
Best regards,
Shack Attack
posted on November 19, 2000 08:51:25 AM
All right just one more thing.
In AW's post-sale mgmt. area, the checklist item #7 (Leave Feedback to Buyer) should be switched with item #9(Remind Buyer to give feedback). These buttons being in the order they are currently in does a dis-service to the AW user and the Ebay community at large by encouraging sellers to give feedback at time of shipment. We've established here that feedback should represent the entire transaction, not just receipt of payment. I learned the hard way that you never check the #7 until you've checked #9 and VERIFIED that you did indeed receive the requested feedback!!! This is a very common trap for new sellers to fall into and rather than steer them away from it, AW "draws the map" to lead them right into it!!!
posted on November 19, 2000 11:29:26 AMkiller Remember, you get a chance to respond to the feedback; that is your chance to exonerate yourself. And I do believe I am not alone when I say that the content of the feedback is what is important. Bidders and sellers can tell when injustice has been committed. I have bought from sellers with a low % of negs, after reading the reason for them.
Even though you no longer have the pics, most stores will not accept returns at 30 days or more, let alone and AUCTION Gallery!
By not accepting his return after so long, you are letting the bidder know that everyone, bidder AND seller, must play by the rules.
posted on November 19, 2000 12:36:17 PM
As a buyer only, I am getting really tired of the sellers around here pushing the idea of sellers not leaving feedback until the buyer leaves feedback.
To me this borders on feedback extortion. The seller is NOT judging the sale, they are judging the feedback left by the buyer.
I rarely look at the feedback left for me, but I leave feedback for the seller when I recieve the item (I also send a note to the seller). But that is about to change, I am not going to leave feedback until the seller leaves feedback for me.
As you can see, this is really going to help the feedback process, now no one will get feedback because neither of us will leave feedback until the other does.
As a buyer feedback means something to me, because some sellers look at feedback to determine if they will ship quickly when a check is recieved. I don't want a neg from a seller who I gave a desereved neg, so why leave feedback first?
In over 150 auctions, I have attempted to leave two negs, I couldn't because the seller had been NARUed after the sale was completed. I have had to work with three other sellers because of problems and have left positives because we both came to an agreeable solution. (Two of those sellers had already given me positives, and I never even considered giving negs before contacting the seller, explaining the problem and asking them to suggest a solution.)
I don't think I am an unusual buyer. The problem I see, is sellers seem to base their policies on the exception and not the general case. So all of the good buyers get the shaft.
How would sellers feel if all of there buyers treated them like the deadbeat sellers?
Sorry this was so long, but this is one of my hot buttons.
posted on November 19, 2000 02:21:01 PM
Treating a person with a negative feedback is a very serious matter and eBay takes that very seriously, he can even get suspended, if the item you sent is as advertised you should contact eBay immediately BEFORE HIM and tell them exactly what you are saying here, tell them you feel nervous about this treat, etc. But, once again, eBay don't like when a member treats another member with the feedback thing.
For this reason I NEVER leave feedback first NO MATTER what, feedback should be left ONLY when the entire transaction is completed, NOT when the payment is received, and the buyer should learn/uderstand that, and we as sellers should teach them about that. Don't be afraid to be rude, I have 785 feedback with zero 0 negs, wasn't easy I made a lot of mistakes at the beginning, but I learned that you have to be firm and rude, they are not giving you money for free, you are investing work and time without counting the item you have to send. So don't feel that you own them always an apology or that have to obey their instructions, NO WAY!.
For this reason don't leave feedback first anymore, NOT ANYMORE!!! eBay is doing nothing to protect us against retaliation, so you have to protect yourself from these types of treats. 85% of buyers are always happy with the item(s) BUT 15% they will try to take advantage of any kind if it's possible, BEWARE OF IT!.
Poton.
The law says, everybody is innocent until it's proved that he/she is guilty. Not me, in this world doesn't apply that, I think EVERYBODY is guilty until you prove it was a lie or untrue. For this reason, I always, ALWAYS believe EVERYTHING people tell me about him/her/that until I prove it isn't a true.
posted on November 19, 2000 03:14:04 PM
hotstuffpoton....There is never any reason for being rude...
We have a great tool: LANGUAGE. We can get our point across without resorting to rudeness.
That said, I do not agree with leaving feedback AFTER buyer has done so. I do, however, believe that once transation is concluded to everyone's satisfaction, SELLER should then leave feedback, followed (hopefully!) by buyer's.
posted on November 19, 2000 03:20:03 PM
Sellers need to remember one thing: If you don't treat buyers with respect and honesty, then the buyers won't be back, period.
It's my money and I will decide where I spend it. I don't need some arrogant seller telling me how I should proceed through a transaction. This includes, but is not limited to, if or when I leave feedback.
If a seller does not have enough confidence in their business practices to leave feedback when I let them know I have received the product, then why should I trust the seller will leave feedback. Or, If I find it necessary to leave a negative, why should I trust this seller will not leave a retaliatory negative. Just because I leave a negative does not mean I should get one in return. There are justified negatives.
The customer may not always be right, but they are still the customer and without them you are out of business.
I am a seller and I NEVER, EVER, EVER leave feedbacks for buyers first. I learned my lesson the hard way. You sound just like the type of hot heads that leave a neg for any little thing. If a buyer doesnt leave me a feedback I am happier than if they leave me a neg. You do have the right to spend your money where you want, but Seller's also have the right of whether or not they will accept your money ! I cancel bids on my items all the time if I see a bidder of mine likes to leave negs for people, I'd rather sell the item cheaper to a user that is not a Hot Head and will not give me a headache. I have bidders email me all the time and ask why I cancelled their bid, I tell them cuz they are hot heads and I do not wish to deal with them. This is also the main reason I cannot use the new Buy It Now service because I cannot screen my bidders that way. This new BIN option is going to have alot of negs associated with it, remember you heard it here first.
[ edited by cix on Nov 20, 2000 04:07 AM ]
posted on November 20, 2000 04:31:03 AM
I routinely leave feedback first when the transaction is completed. If a customer isn't willing to give and receive feedback based on the entire transaction there is a serious problem. How in the world can waiting until the end of a transaction in order to leave accurate feedback be construed as feedback extortion? If I as a seller tell the buyer that I refuse to leave feedback until they leave it first, this is feedback extortion. I never do this. I always leave feedback first unless the buyer beats me to. I just think it is reasonable to base that feedback on the entire transaction, not on the promptness of payment. The few folks who have tries to scam me have always paid very quickly.
Sellers and buyers who state a refusal to leave feedback first are engaging in feedback extortion. Feedback extortion does take place every day on eBay in both directions. Waiting until the transaction is completed is not feedback extortion.
As a buyer feedback means something to me, because some sellers look at feedback to determine if they will ship quickly when a check is recieved. I don't want a neg from a seller who I gave a desereved neg, so why leave feedback first?
Interesting. This is the same argument that some sellers use.
Feedback is not a game. It's not a brick to hold over the other party's head to use as an attitude adjustor. It's a tool to be used in determining whether to do business with another eBay user. Therefore it should be accurate. It is impossible to make sure that it is accurate before the transaction is completed.
Edited to remove an inaccurate remark.
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Nov 20, 2000 04:42 AM ]
posted on November 20, 2000 11:49:35 AM
aggiebonfire - your example is a bit backwards.
"Never leave feedback without first receiving feedback - Part of customer's job is to report satisfaction or not with item - You cannot evaluate a customer until they have finished job."
The customer has no job execept for payment. The seller holds all the responsibility. The customer's job is definitely not to report satisfaction. Where else in the retail world would you find this? Does Sears send a customer home with a television, keep the remote and tell them they have to come back a week later to tell them how they like the television so they can get their remote?
In the real world the seller rarely hears from the customer voluntarily regarding satisfaction unless it has to do with a problem.
"Do you pay home builder final payment before house is finished? Not if you are wise business person"
Again, backwards. You're reversing roles. You use an example of a customer withholding payment until completion then call the customer a business person. ??? The builder is the business person and the customer is the client. Do you go to Sears for that television and tell them you're going to give them 50% down and the rest in a week when you decide if the item is satisfactory? They'd laugh you out of the store.
posted on November 20, 2000 11:59:48 AM
Which of those 8 words didn't you understand? If you operate a storefront and a customer walks through your door, it is your responsibility to make the sale. Nothing less. You can't expect the customer to do it for you. The only "job" the customer has is to select an item and pay for it.
Very simple.
You don't call up that customer and yell at him because he didn't come back into your store and tell you how he liked the item.
Pretty basic business theory. Customer is always right. Don't antagonize the customer.
[ edited by avaloncourt on Nov 20, 2000 12:00 PM ]
posted on November 20, 2000 12:06:04 PMPretty basic business theory. Customer is always right. Don't antagonize the customer.
Not if the customer is a crook. The buyer's responsibility does not end with payment. The buyer also has a responsibility to work with the customer in a reasonable manner to resolve any problems that may arise during the transaction, of which making prompt payment is a small part.
posted on November 20, 2000 12:10:15 PM
"The buyer also has a responsibility to work with the customer in a reasonable manner to resolve any problems that may arise during the transaction"
Well, calling the customer a crook isn't exactly the most reasonable manner of dealing with problems. Calling the customer a crook, even if you're only thinking it, immediately terminates any working relationship you may have had. Even if you don't say it, your actions will reflect it.
By the way, who is the buyer and who is the customer in your quote above?
[ edited by avaloncourt on Nov 20, 2000 05:48 PM ]
